Ugh. Bad indeed.
Earthquake Weather: Pop Culture & Tech Goes Weirder
- Thread starter Electric Monk
- Start date
Ugh. Bad indeed.
Good on Atari for seizing the initiative. I suppose if there must be a title given to "Most Incompetent Mismanagement of a Console Maker" IOTL, it would have to go to them. And it's tough to beat the E.T. fiasco, but they sure gave it the old college try! It's also hard to imagine them doing worse with a follow-up to the 7800 than the OTL Jaguar, but I'm sure you can find a way, if you're so inclined. But if they're after longevity, they certainly could not have picked a better partner than the legendary Commodore!
This timeline will certainly put his alleged love for Nintendo to the test...Don't hurt Nintendo!
You know that kid has disappeared from the face of the Earth? Nobody can find him! I bet he changed his name in embarrassment.
No, that was the little kid (the titular "Wizard" himself); the one who kept saying "California". His name was even Jimmy, too!No, he became the Angry Video Game Nerd.
No, that was the little kid (the titular "Wizard" himself); the one who kept saying "California". His name was even Jimmy, too!
Silly me.
Next up we'll be taking a look at a rather famous film that (despite coming out in 1987) will be radically changed. Guesses are welcome.
Heh. Guys, c'mon, I grew up on Nintendo at least on the weekends and at friend's places. All I'm willing to say is that Nintendo will be different, better and worse in various areas.
Oh I can't imagine Nintendo's wacky ideas changing that much. It does come out in 1989 along with the Wizard, IOTL, so that might change.
So very true of both Atari Inc. and Atari Corporation. And the other half of Atari Inc., Atari Games, deserves a mention: sold to Namco, mismanaged, bought by employees, and then they become the mad Tengen people! Jeez.
Well Sun & Commodore seize the initiative (partially out of spite on the latter's part), but yes it always seemed odd to me that Tramiel did a mostly good job at Commodore—until the price wars that helped crash the console market—heavily on the back of C64 games but that when he ran Atari he let the 7800, a profitable business no less, be run into the ground. Of course the Commodore of the time was busy screwing up as well despite their two good ideas: buy Amiga (again, partially out of spite), and offer the CEO position to Gassée.
Heh. I do wonder where these people go, but I'm too scared to look up the websites I assume exist to stalking them.
Don't hurt Nintendo!
Heh. Guys, c'mon, I grew up on Nintendo at least on the weekends and at friend's places. All I'm willing to say is that Nintendo will be different, better and worse in various areas.
Oh I can't imagine Nintendo's wacky ideas changing that much. It does come out in 1989 along with the Wizard, IOTL, so that might change.
So very true of both Atari Inc. and Atari Corporation. And the other half of Atari Inc., Atari Games, deserves a mention: sold to Namco, mismanaged, bought by employees, and then they become the mad Tengen people! Jeez.
Well Sun & Commodore seize the initiative (partially out of spite on the latter's part), but yes it always seemed odd to me that Tramiel did a mostly good job at Commodore—until the price wars that helped crash the console market—heavily on the back of C64 games but that when he ran Atari he let the 7800, a profitable business no less, be run into the ground. Of course the Commodore of the time was busy screwing up as well despite their two good ideas: buy Amiga (again, partially out of spite), and offer the CEO position to Gassée.
No, he became the Angry Video Game Nerd.
No, that was the little kid (the titular "Wizard" himself); the one who kept saying "California". His name was even Jimmy, too!
Silly me.
Heh. I do wonder where these people go, but I'm too scared to look up the websites I assume exist to stalking them
.
Last edited:
As Mega Man had been in planning stages since the mid 1980s it's fairly safe from butterflies. Although I love the backstory of that boss (and some of the art is impressive) I don't know if he'd make it in. It depends on whether Capcom pushes Mega Man out the door faster—in need of some cash—or thinks that Mega Man could be huge, in which is gets delayed for polishing and additions and to build a bigger marketing campaign for.
A quintessential "wait and see" answer is all I've got on that subject
In specifics? I'm afraid so. You'll need to see Thande's Cronus Invictus timeline for lots of Sonic love.
The ideas that came together to make Sonic are still floating around, but it'll be rather different from OTL.
I'm not going into that much detail in the timeline but I didn't know the board had a resident Amiga fan
The Famicom Disk System was release like two weeks before the 'Godzilla Shake'(sorry that pseudo gonzo take his told... rookie, he will never be like Hunter S Thompson), thus ironically not butterfly away, and ironically with the shake, the development of 128KB cartidge will be delated(was Ghost n Goblins for Arcade, almost 6 month later), thus the Disk system will be more popular(more easily to use disk than media cartidhe) for those who resist the shake
Umm, If Fire Emblem is not Butterfly away and Yumpei Yokio doesn't make the Virtual boy... that is victory for the world. maybe the Japanese Companies will want overseas manufacture(Nintendo will learn about it, in OTL 2011 Shake were pretty lucky)
I am almost done the next section, centred entirely on that movie I asked you to guess about .
A quick note that I filled out the picture selection of the tech '86 post with some nice logos.
I also added a couple images to to the first post.
I've moving through some pop culture of 1986 and 1987, then back to tech/video games 1987 in a few posts.
It might be more popular but the consumer market in Japan is also a little shaken up at the moment. There is, however, interesting things that can be done with it (which is what I was meant up thread) that didn't happen, IOTL.
Also from what I can find on the subject developers really didn't like the Disk System. Nintendo is powerful, yes, but with the Atari 7800 doing better and an early launch of the Sega Master System in parts of the world they don't have quite the cloute they did IOTL (at least for the moment)
I do have a massive soft spot for Gunpei Yokoi and as regards manufacturing outside Japan at this point in time there were very few places that could actually make these parts. They might begin to build up some outside Japan factories.
True enough.
.A quick note that I filled out the picture selection of the tech '86 post with some nice logos.
I also added a couple images to to the first post.
Eagerly awaiting it
I've moving through some pop culture of 1986 and 1987, then back to tech/video games 1987 in a few posts.
It might be more popular but the consumer market in Japan is also a little shaken up at the moment. There is, however, interesting things that can be done with it (which is what I was meant up thread) that didn't happen, IOTL.
Also from what I can find on the subject developers really didn't like the Disk System. Nintendo is powerful, yes, but with the Atari 7800 doing better and an early launch of the Sega Master System in parts of the world they don't have quite the cloute they did IOTL (at least for the moment)
I do have a massive soft spot for Gunpei Yokoi and as regards manufacturing outside Japan at this point in time there were very few places that could actually make these parts. They might begin to build up some outside Japan factories.
True enough.
Last edited:
RoboCop? Wall Street?
My first thought was Gung Ho; sadly, that movie came out in 1986, meaning that it (unfortunately) gets made in TTL as well.
I'm not going into that much detail in the timeline but I didn't know the board had a resident Amiga fan
Technically, I'm not. I'm well aware of the defiencies of Amiga Hardware (even Jay Miner admitted that he should have gone with a chunky scheme to start with, and despite some brilliant concepts, the 68000 series had several obvious errors {Like microcoding everything} that would have made me go with the 65816, or the MIPS R2000/3000 {I would have invested in the Stanford and/or Berkley RISC projects from the beginning if I owned a computer company in that era}), and besides, I never owned a Commodore product back in the day:
My family's first computer was a Texas Instruments TI 99/4A.
My family's second computer was a Coleco Adam.
The first computer I owned until I went off to college was called an Orange Logic Valencia and it featured 128k of System RAM, 192K of Video RAM, a PIC microcontroller for the CPU (Built in Keyboard Controller,) Three Expansion/Cartridge Slots, this wierd GPU which seemed work like a combination of the NES' and TurboGrafix 16's tilemodes with a display-list style system for handling sprites (like the Atari 7800's MARIA), and a General Instruments AY-3-8910 sound chip. It used LOGO for its main programming language, but with extra features to take advantage of the GPU.
Then my mom junked it my freshman year at college...
But anyway, I am really in love with the concept of the Amiga; of hardware and operating system engineered explicitly for each other.
Of course, If I could have had any computer from the era, I would have chosen a Sharp X68030 customized to have included a Motorola 68882 FPU and a 56000 DSP to augment the by-then aging Yamaha YM 2151.
Last edited:
James Bond
A 25th Anniversary Spectacular!
—The new James Bond… living on the edge.
(A tagline for The Living Daylights, the fifteenth entry in the James Bond franchise.)
"Bond, James Bond." Those iconic words had been on the silver screen since Dr. No in 1962 and Eon Productions was planning for it to be up there once again in 1987. However long-running James Bond actor, Roger Moore, had decided he was getting too old to play Bond and this began the search for a replacement.
The NBC cancellation of Remington Steel in the spring of 1986 saw actor Pierce Brosnan being named as the newest James Bond, replacing Roger Moore, as the producers' first choice—Timothy Dalton—was busy with other commitments. Despite a upswing in news about the event coverage of the Japanese earthquake dominated the headlines. The positive publicity made NBC reconsider cancellation. Indeed NBC flirted with the idea of renewing Remington Steel for the 1986-87 season for some time, but despite suddenly deciding to renew it several people had to break the news to a certain NBC executive that the time on Brosnan's contract had run out the day before.
As such Pierce Brosnan, who would have been contractually obligated to come back if NBC had made up their mind earlier, was now free to play James Bond in The Living Daylights reboot.
Deciding that the very 1980s setting of the previous Roger Moore films was dated with a new Bond coming in and a full reboot being the plan, the producers set about to create a more timeless and classic James Bond film that shied away from hijinks and reoriented it to what could be considered an alternate 1980s that bore a striking resemblance to the more stylistic 1960s era Sean Connery films. The Japanese earthquake also influenced the underlying plot with the Soviet Union considered too old an adversary and instead choosing to go with corporate terrorists. Despite the complete lack of resemblance to the Ian Fleming short story, they decide to keep the name.[1]
Production began right away, aiming for a 1987 release, with location shooting in Tokyo[2], New York, and London as part of a global network of sinister corporations manipulating governments. The intelligence agencies were portrayed as hopelessly comprised with Bond losing his license to kill and being stuck on a beach in the Pacific. However the new M supports his unofficial quest as she believes in his ideas, if not his actual self which is clear when she memorably says "the Soviet Union is an outdated dinosaur… much like yourself, Mr Bond, if one added sexism and misogyny to the list". For the first time M would be played by a women, Judy Dench[3], as another part of Eon's plan to throughly update Bond.
The pre-title sequence would show Bond earning his 007 license to kill, and then flashing forward to where he's a junior 00 agent whose behaviour has led him to being ignored. When he persists in his inquiries political pressure forces M to revoke the 00 status, sending him off to the Pacific where he makes his way to Tokyo to look for answers.
Sam Neill, considered for the part of James Bond, was instead cast as the Wall Street villain (coinciding with the 1987 film Wall Street, in one of those strange film industry coincidences) whose political influence is unmatched because of his vast wealth. This results in James Bond being hunted by elements of the CIA with only his new friend, CIA agent Felix Leiter, on his side. Reluctantly stealing from the non-Eon Productions production of Never Say Never Again the producers continued their quest to be as different as possible, auditioning a variety of non-white actors for the role of Felix.
In the end it came down to LeVar Burton of Roots fame, Denzel Washington who was taking a starring turn on the television hospital drama St. Elsewhere, and mostly unknown Chinese American actor John Lone who had made an impression during the screen test. The first two men had potential commitments, LeVar Burton having been approached for a new Star Trek TV series and St. Elsewhere was a NBC show which presented problems after the Remington Steel issue.
Torn by their choices a suggestion by one of the writers meant they wound up casting two people as Felix Leiter which made for a moderate reworking of the central section of the script as Bond gets told the only CIA agent he can trust is Felix Leiter as he once saved M's life, but of course M is cut off before she can describe him. John Lone starred as the "good" Felix and Denzel Washington in a memorable turn starred as the "bad" Felix. (What NBC thought of Eon's successful poaching and vaulting to stardom of a pair of their talent is one of those "I heard it from a friend of a friend" rumours in Hollywood.)
Maryam d'Abo would star as the only major Bond Girl in the film. She was cast as a retired assassin who used to work for Sam Neill's character. Neill brings her back for one last missionto gain the trust of James Bond, find out what he knows, and then kill him. The producers deliberately conceived a much more active role for the "Bond Girl" as part of their reboot although, naturally, she does sleep with Bond. Taking advantage of the PG-13 rating in the United States that allowed, at the time, bare breasts the American version of The Living Daylights had both more violence and—of course—Maryam d'Abo's topless self. They also arranged for her to be in the September issue of Playboy, helping to promote the film. Most versions, including the British release, would have various cuts and, overseas, an American VHS copy of The Living Daylights was highly prized.[4]
With a new look came a new director and writer (although veteran Bond writers Richard Maibaum & Michael G. Wilson would do much of the work as well). Fresh off the success of Top Gun newcomer Tony Scott found himself on the A-list of Hollywood directors. He was approached for multiple movies including Beverly Hills Cop II but in the end the pitch made by Eon Productions won out, and he signed on to direct The Living Daylights. Famous British playwright, Tom Stoppard, was approached for the script and despite initially not being willing to write an action film he changed his mind when told they wanted him primarily for his skills at dialogue and structure.[5]
Eon Productions was determined to make this new Bond film not just a financial success (the Roger Moore films had usually done fine on that front) but also a critical one, to overhaul the series for the upcoming 1990s and portray a new kind of spy thriller. By the time filming began almost everything had been revamped in their attempt to do so.
The reported $45 million budget was vastly higher than the previous film's $30 million one and the speculation among Hollywood insiders was that Eon Productions had done an exceptionally good job of hiding the rest of the budget, which meant The Living Daylights might have cost twice as much as the previous one. It is perhaps not surprising that the longtime pioneers of product placement in the James Bond films stepped up to the plate once again. Virtually every item with a visible brand name had been paid to be put there, ranging from the fridge in an apartment to the watch Brosnan wore. Naturally having a particular fridge brand on screen wasn't worth that much to General Electric, but Eon proved to be a master of eking out product placement dollars by having even that fridge bid on by several companies. Every dollar helped.
Every dollar, and the cars. The Living Daylights marked the return of Aston Martin to the franchise. Their first appearance since 1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service saw the V8 Vantage Volante convertible feature prominently in the film, as one more part of the producers (mostly) steadfast classic style reboot.
The Living Daylights was released on 1 November 1987 in the United States, with the world premiere at the Odeon Leicester Square Cinema in London being a little over a month earlier. The film was heavily marketed as the 25th anniversary of James Bond, although that was counting the British release of Dr. No, and it proved to be a major success, grossing over $16 million in its first weekend in the USA for an eventual total of $76 million domestically, with a total worldwide gross of some $251 million. On raw numbers it was the most successful James Bond film of all time, but once you adjusted for inflation and ticket prices it fell to 4th place: beating out Moonraker at 5th; trailing Thunderball, Goldfinger, and You Only Live Twice.[6]
The critical reception was also excellent with reviewers praising the new look of the film, the quality of the script, the toned down James Bond that still managed some humour, and the rest of the cast. The primary complaint levelled at the movie was that it was too realistic (indeed, a hard-fought battle with the British Board of Film Classification took place in the spring of 1987) and that the mostly retro stylings were at odds with the realism.
A sad note capped off the otherwise remarkable The Living Daylights. Pierce Brosnan's wife, Cassandra Harris, was diagnosed with cancer in 1987 and Brosnan requested to be let out of his contract to be with her. Even his wife protested, as she had wanted him to play James Bond for years. In turn Eon Productions offered a deal in which they would delay the next Bond film by a year (audience fatigue had been a growing concern throughout the 1980s, so it was not entirely altruistic on Eon's part) but reduce Brosnan's salary for the next film, if he still wanted out when it was time to shoot Bond 16 than he would then be released from his contract.
Eon also hoped that having an additional year would allow for a script and director as good as they had for The Living Daylights and perhaps even reduce the massive budget, as well as giving them time to find a backup James Bond if need be. After several weeks of thought and consultation with his wife, Brosnan agreed to the terms.
The grand reboot had been a massive success… but would they keep their Bond?
|||||
[1] They did in fact consider making The Living Daylights as a reboot/prequel, much like the 2006 Casino Royale film. ITTL with Pierce Brosnan and the earthquake seeming to mark a major event in the 1980s they choose to do so. Corporate terrorists is, of course, my invention but the USSR again would seem too dated for a reboot. Although OTL The Living Daylights copied the short story for a section, the rest had little to do with it.
[2] The high profile of The Living Daylights in Japan was considered a major publicity coup (for both Japan & Eon), and indeed with the resonant plot The Living Daylights did the best of any Bond film to that point in the Japanese box office.
[3] Yes I'm reaching forward. However she was free from commitments at the time (84 Charing Cross Road might conflict) and she was a highly respected British actor at the time (won a BAFTA in '86). It seems reasonable that in a reboot they might go with her anyway although her inspiration would have to be someone besides Stella Rimington. Also, I love her as M.
[4] Yes, this is a change from OTL's James Bond. However they are dedicated to rebooting it and talks with Playboy (who did, IOTL, put her in an issue) have led them to push the still loosely defined boundaries of PG-13. Obviously the BBFC and most overseas ratings that are similar to PG-13 object, which actually helps The Living Daylights because they can cut the bare breasts and then weasel their way into cutting less of the violence.
[5] Again I'm reaching forward. Honestly the 1980s James Bond films were utterly dominated by the same writers and the same directors. So I'm trying to find solid people that at one point or another talking about being involved with Bond, hoping that their interest is a long standing one.
Tony Scott expressed interest in a James Bond film written by Quentin Tarantino IOTL. With Top Gun making him an A-list director Eon Productions talks with him and he decides to do something more serious instead of Beverly Hills Cop II to avoid being director-cast as that fun action movie guy. Tom Stoppard was mentioned as a possibility for Quantum of Solace, and has worked on a number of spy and action scripts (including The Bourne Ultimatum) in recent years. His reputation in the UK was well established by the 1980s, particularly in dialogue.
[6] Butterflies from the radically different nature of the film and a longer film shoot have meant a somewhat later release date and an increase in budget from OTL's $40 million. Of course these are just reported budgets, once you account for the hidden stuff the alternate The Living Daylights probably cost about 50% more than our movie which tempers the net profit you might expect from such a hit.
-----
I hope no one minds a pure James Bond update. Pierce Brosnan being offered the part at about the same time as the earthquake meant I simply couldn't resist making an all-out James Bond spectacle post. Obviously the changes are massive, but at the same time Goldeneye or Casino Royale does show that Eon have been willing to go all out. Once they think over their reboot concept a little more, they decide if they reboot the franchise it'll have to be a major effort. They were also stung by the critical failure of the last Moore movie and IOTL made a much more realistic dour Bond as a reaction (I'm sure Dalton influenced that with his presence). With Brosnan as their actor he seems like a natural fit for a return to more 1960s era Bonds, which is a better fit for the reboot.
—The new James Bond… living on the edge.
(A tagline for The Living Daylights, the fifteenth entry in the James Bond franchise.)
"Bond, James Bond." Those iconic words had been on the silver screen since Dr. No in 1962 and Eon Productions was planning for it to be up there once again in 1987. However long-running James Bond actor, Roger Moore, had decided he was getting too old to play Bond and this began the search for a replacement.
The NBC cancellation of Remington Steel in the spring of 1986 saw actor Pierce Brosnan being named as the newest James Bond, replacing Roger Moore, as the producers' first choice—Timothy Dalton—was busy with other commitments. Despite a upswing in news about the event coverage of the Japanese earthquake dominated the headlines. The positive publicity made NBC reconsider cancellation. Indeed NBC flirted with the idea of renewing Remington Steel for the 1986-87 season for some time, but despite suddenly deciding to renew it several people had to break the news to a certain NBC executive that the time on Brosnan's contract had run out the day before.
As such Pierce Brosnan, who would have been contractually obligated to come back if NBC had made up their mind earlier, was now free to play James Bond in The Living Daylights reboot.
Deciding that the very 1980s setting of the previous Roger Moore films was dated with a new Bond coming in and a full reboot being the plan, the producers set about to create a more timeless and classic James Bond film that shied away from hijinks and reoriented it to what could be considered an alternate 1980s that bore a striking resemblance to the more stylistic 1960s era Sean Connery films. The Japanese earthquake also influenced the underlying plot with the Soviet Union considered too old an adversary and instead choosing to go with corporate terrorists. Despite the complete lack of resemblance to the Ian Fleming short story, they decide to keep the name.[1]
Production began right away, aiming for a 1987 release, with location shooting in Tokyo[2], New York, and London as part of a global network of sinister corporations manipulating governments. The intelligence agencies were portrayed as hopelessly comprised with Bond losing his license to kill and being stuck on a beach in the Pacific. However the new M supports his unofficial quest as she believes in his ideas, if not his actual self which is clear when she memorably says "the Soviet Union is an outdated dinosaur… much like yourself, Mr Bond, if one added sexism and misogyny to the list". For the first time M would be played by a women, Judy Dench[3], as another part of Eon's plan to throughly update Bond.
The pre-title sequence would show Bond earning his 007 license to kill, and then flashing forward to where he's a junior 00 agent whose behaviour has led him to being ignored. When he persists in his inquiries political pressure forces M to revoke the 00 status, sending him off to the Pacific where he makes his way to Tokyo to look for answers.
Sam Neill, considered for the part of James Bond, was instead cast as the Wall Street villain (coinciding with the 1987 film Wall Street, in one of those strange film industry coincidences) whose political influence is unmatched because of his vast wealth. This results in James Bond being hunted by elements of the CIA with only his new friend, CIA agent Felix Leiter, on his side. Reluctantly stealing from the non-Eon Productions production of Never Say Never Again the producers continued their quest to be as different as possible, auditioning a variety of non-white actors for the role of Felix.
In the end it came down to LeVar Burton of Roots fame, Denzel Washington who was taking a starring turn on the television hospital drama St. Elsewhere, and mostly unknown Chinese American actor John Lone who had made an impression during the screen test. The first two men had potential commitments, LeVar Burton having been approached for a new Star Trek TV series and St. Elsewhere was a NBC show which presented problems after the Remington Steel issue.
Torn by their choices a suggestion by one of the writers meant they wound up casting two people as Felix Leiter which made for a moderate reworking of the central section of the script as Bond gets told the only CIA agent he can trust is Felix Leiter as he once saved M's life, but of course M is cut off before she can describe him. John Lone starred as the "good" Felix and Denzel Washington in a memorable turn starred as the "bad" Felix. (What NBC thought of Eon's successful poaching and vaulting to stardom of a pair of their talent is one of those "I heard it from a friend of a friend" rumours in Hollywood.)
Maryam d'Abo would star as the only major Bond Girl in the film. She was cast as a retired assassin who used to work for Sam Neill's character. Neill brings her back for one last missionto gain the trust of James Bond, find out what he knows, and then kill him. The producers deliberately conceived a much more active role for the "Bond Girl" as part of their reboot although, naturally, she does sleep with Bond. Taking advantage of the PG-13 rating in the United States that allowed, at the time, bare breasts the American version of The Living Daylights had both more violence and—of course—Maryam d'Abo's topless self. They also arranged for her to be in the September issue of Playboy, helping to promote the film. Most versions, including the British release, would have various cuts and, overseas, an American VHS copy of The Living Daylights was highly prized.[4]
With a new look came a new director and writer (although veteran Bond writers Richard Maibaum & Michael G. Wilson would do much of the work as well). Fresh off the success of Top Gun newcomer Tony Scott found himself on the A-list of Hollywood directors. He was approached for multiple movies including Beverly Hills Cop II but in the end the pitch made by Eon Productions won out, and he signed on to direct The Living Daylights. Famous British playwright, Tom Stoppard, was approached for the script and despite initially not being willing to write an action film he changed his mind when told they wanted him primarily for his skills at dialogue and structure.[5]
Eon Productions was determined to make this new Bond film not just a financial success (the Roger Moore films had usually done fine on that front) but also a critical one, to overhaul the series for the upcoming 1990s and portray a new kind of spy thriller. By the time filming began almost everything had been revamped in their attempt to do so.
The reported $45 million budget was vastly higher than the previous film's $30 million one and the speculation among Hollywood insiders was that Eon Productions had done an exceptionally good job of hiding the rest of the budget, which meant The Living Daylights might have cost twice as much as the previous one. It is perhaps not surprising that the longtime pioneers of product placement in the James Bond films stepped up to the plate once again. Virtually every item with a visible brand name had been paid to be put there, ranging from the fridge in an apartment to the watch Brosnan wore. Naturally having a particular fridge brand on screen wasn't worth that much to General Electric, but Eon proved to be a master of eking out product placement dollars by having even that fridge bid on by several companies. Every dollar helped.
Every dollar, and the cars. The Living Daylights marked the return of Aston Martin to the franchise. Their first appearance since 1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service saw the V8 Vantage Volante convertible feature prominently in the film, as one more part of the producers (mostly) steadfast classic style reboot.
The Living Daylights was released on 1 November 1987 in the United States, with the world premiere at the Odeon Leicester Square Cinema in London being a little over a month earlier. The film was heavily marketed as the 25th anniversary of James Bond, although that was counting the British release of Dr. No, and it proved to be a major success, grossing over $16 million in its first weekend in the USA for an eventual total of $76 million domestically, with a total worldwide gross of some $251 million. On raw numbers it was the most successful James Bond film of all time, but once you adjusted for inflation and ticket prices it fell to 4th place: beating out Moonraker at 5th; trailing Thunderball, Goldfinger, and You Only Live Twice.[6]
The critical reception was also excellent with reviewers praising the new look of the film, the quality of the script, the toned down James Bond that still managed some humour, and the rest of the cast. The primary complaint levelled at the movie was that it was too realistic (indeed, a hard-fought battle with the British Board of Film Classification took place in the spring of 1987) and that the mostly retro stylings were at odds with the realism.
A sad note capped off the otherwise remarkable The Living Daylights. Pierce Brosnan's wife, Cassandra Harris, was diagnosed with cancer in 1987 and Brosnan requested to be let out of his contract to be with her. Even his wife protested, as she had wanted him to play James Bond for years. In turn Eon Productions offered a deal in which they would delay the next Bond film by a year (audience fatigue had been a growing concern throughout the 1980s, so it was not entirely altruistic on Eon's part) but reduce Brosnan's salary for the next film, if he still wanted out when it was time to shoot Bond 16 than he would then be released from his contract.
Eon also hoped that having an additional year would allow for a script and director as good as they had for The Living Daylights and perhaps even reduce the massive budget, as well as giving them time to find a backup James Bond if need be. After several weeks of thought and consultation with his wife, Brosnan agreed to the terms.
The grand reboot had been a massive success… but would they keep their Bond?
|||||
[1] They did in fact consider making The Living Daylights as a reboot/prequel, much like the 2006 Casino Royale film. ITTL with Pierce Brosnan and the earthquake seeming to mark a major event in the 1980s they choose to do so. Corporate terrorists is, of course, my invention but the USSR again would seem too dated for a reboot. Although OTL The Living Daylights copied the short story for a section, the rest had little to do with it.
[2] The high profile of The Living Daylights in Japan was considered a major publicity coup (for both Japan & Eon), and indeed with the resonant plot The Living Daylights did the best of any Bond film to that point in the Japanese box office.
[3] Yes I'm reaching forward. However she was free from commitments at the time (84 Charing Cross Road might conflict) and she was a highly respected British actor at the time (won a BAFTA in '86). It seems reasonable that in a reboot they might go with her anyway although her inspiration would have to be someone besides Stella Rimington. Also, I love her as M
.[4] Yes, this is a change from OTL's James Bond. However they are dedicated to rebooting it and talks with Playboy (who did, IOTL, put her in an issue) have led them to push the still loosely defined boundaries of PG-13. Obviously the BBFC and most overseas ratings that are similar to PG-13 object, which actually helps The Living Daylights because they can cut the bare breasts and then weasel their way into cutting less of the violence.
[5] Again I'm reaching forward. Honestly the 1980s James Bond films were utterly dominated by the same writers and the same directors. So I'm trying to find solid people that at one point or another talking about being involved with Bond, hoping that their interest is a long standing one.
Tony Scott expressed interest in a James Bond film written by Quentin Tarantino IOTL. With Top Gun making him an A-list director Eon Productions talks with him and he decides to do something more serious instead of Beverly Hills Cop II to avoid being director-cast as that fun action movie guy. Tom Stoppard was mentioned as a possibility for Quantum of Solace, and has worked on a number of spy and action scripts (including The Bourne Ultimatum) in recent years. His reputation in the UK was well established by the 1980s, particularly in dialogue.
[6] Butterflies from the radically different nature of the film and a longer film shoot have meant a somewhat later release date and an increase in budget from OTL's $40 million. Of course these are just reported budgets, once you account for the hidden stuff the alternate The Living Daylights probably cost about 50% more than our movie which tempers the net profit you might expect from such a hit.
-----
I hope no one minds a pure James Bond update. Pierce Brosnan being offered the part at about the same time as the earthquake meant I simply couldn't resist making an all-out James Bond spectacle post. Obviously the changes are massive, but at the same time Goldeneye or Casino Royale does show that Eon have been willing to go all out. Once they think over their reboot concept a little more, they decide if they reboot the franchise it'll have to be a major effort. They were also stung by the critical failure of the last Moore movie and IOTL made a much more realistic dour Bond as a reaction (I'm sure Dalton influenced that with his presence). With Brosnan as their actor he seems like a natural fit for a return to more 1960s era Bonds, which is a better fit for the reboot.
Last edited:
I'll admit, I didn't guess The Living Daylights. But Bond is a pop culture touchstone, as much as anyone, so it's a great place to start!
This was a really great update! The pictures were nice, and the detailed description of the film, from conception to delivery, was a good read. I'm looking forward to reading much more about pop culture in the world of Earthquake Weather!
Well done, working a classic pop culture WI into your timeline. As you mention, Dalton's Bond was much darker than Brosnan's - many people regard him as a precursor to the Craig Bond in that respect - but even Brosnan will probably seem edgier and rougher than he is, coming directly after Moore.
Don't worry about corporate terrorists being the villains - it's very much in the vein of this time, when capitalism is evil and you should spend your money so that capitalists can tell you how evil they areElectric Monk said:
This is actually a quite significant butterfly, as it exposes Dench to American audiences ahead of schedule. Could a *Mrs. Brown be better received? Could Oscar voters, more familiar with Dench, feel compelled to give her the trophy for a strong, complex performance... instead of a consolation prize for a glorified cameo a year later?Electric Monk said:
Interesting that you didn't go with this one, considering that would mean he wouldn't be starring in a certain television series...Electric Monk said:
Which raises the obvious question(s): What will become of The Last Emperor and Glory, respectively?Electric Monk said:
I like that. The self-consciously retro look is a stark contrast to the gritty, modern style employed by Casino Royale IOTL.Electric Monk said:
Nice use of OTL events to create tension! Though I can't help but feel a little morbid, having looked up the OTL result of her battle with cancer, and then wondering if and how you're going to make a change.Electric Monk said:
This was a really great update! The pictures were nice, and the detailed description of the film, from conception to delivery, was a good read. I'm looking forward to reading much more about pop culture in the world of Earthquake Weather!
Last edited:
No, he became the Angry Video Game Nerd.
No, that was the little kid (the titular "Wizard" himself); the one who kept saying "California". His name was even Jimmy, too!
And I'm betting the Power Glove kid became the Irate Gamer.
Robocop will have a few changes and Wall Street will have a slightly meaner edge in this timeline but nothing major. And yes, sorry about Gung Ho
.But, of course, I went big with James Bond
.I really do like Miner's work but oh man did he choose the most complicated path to get there. Kinda like his fellow Amiga guys like Dave Needle and RJ Mical who designed the Lynx and 3DO. Luckily (incredibly tiny spoilers) the Sun part of Sun Commodore doesn't have patience for that stuff.
I know the technical details of many videogame consoles (primarily from the Genesis/SNES onwards) and any 2000 and on computer, but I freely admit that my knowledge of the technical stuff in 1980s era computers is limited to bits and pieces. I used now-Nicole for that last time around, IIRC. Feel free to PM me after the next tech post to talk a little about the different directions things are going in.
I am however a huge fan of the late 1980s/1990s era CPU wars, so that'll play a part in this timeline.
I also love the idea of hardware/software made for each other… but you'll have to wait and see on that front.
I had a few ideas but noticing that it was the spring of '86 for Brosnan and my love of Bond meant that I had do it
. As a whole I know it's incredibly uneven but it's such a lovely series and listening to The Talk Show's Bond reviews a few months back made me go back and rewatch the whole frickin' thing.True. It's very much deliberately harkening back to the Sean Connery era of Bond, and Brosnan fits that look very well. Personally I've always liked Dalton, but he was missing that bit of humour that even Daniel Craig manages.
Don't worry about corporate terrorists being the villains - it's very much in the vein of this time, when capitalism is evil and you should spend your money so that capitalists can tell you how evil they are
Oh indeed, given that Wall Street was released in 1987, Die Hard in 1988
)), although that was more about robbing the corporation), and so forth.I imagine something similar to Mrs. Brown will get made but it is well after the POD. I wouldn't worry about Dame Judy Dench as I have a feeling she'll be just fine. I took a look at a whole bunch of British actors but none of them (that I found, I certainly missed someone I assume) really had that same feel. I also, alas, haven't figured who she based her performance on (Thatcher?) as Stella wasn't in charge of MI-5 at the time.
Interesting that you didn't go with this one, considering that would mean he wouldn't be starring in a certain television series...
It was a shout-out to An Alternate Rise of the Blockbuster, of course. As for Star Trek: TNG, well, I'm thinking about doing that next and it might just be a wee little bit different…
. And by wee bit… [coughs loudly].John Lone will not be in the The Last Emperor (Eon got to him before they did, and shooting would have overlapped), but given the scarcity of Asian-American actors in Hollywood I have't really figured out who would be. Maybe someone brought over from East Asian cinema.
As for Glory I'm not sure. Yes Denzel is a bigger star earlier, but as it was a supporting role in The Living Daylights he might still wind up with Glory (which I think will still get made ITTL) especially if he had any personal motivations for doing it.
I felt that a 1980s reboot with Brosnan would have to go retro, it really wasn't the right time for the gritty realistic Bond. And given that Brosnan was something of a throwback to Connery in the way he portrayed it, a retro realistic Bond sounded like fun. As I mentioned the BBFC—still in their "video nasty" days, to quote Kermode—found themselves on the losing end of a publicity war. In America, of course, PG-13 could show a heck of a lot more in 1987 than it could in (say) 1996. In fact the American version of The Living Daylights (which I just thought of now and am about to edit in) briefly showed bare breasts for the first time.
Yeah I felt a little morbid too, life sucks sometimes. However IOTL there was a chance to discover the cancer earlier and cancer is one of things that can go away. I really don't know if she lives or dies (I've already sketched out a couple options) but it seems like she was happy until the end. So it's not all terrible, and at least ITTL she got to watch Brosnan play James Bond as she wanted.
This was a really great update! The pictures were nice, and the detailed description of the film, from conception to delivery, was a good read. I'm looking forward to reading much more about pop culture in the world of Earthquake Weather!
Awww, thank you
. I won't always be able to use pictures but when I can I like to, as evidenced by adding a couple to the opening post and expanding the ones in the tech 1986 post.And I'm betting the Power Glove kid became the Irate Gamer.
Lol. If anyone feels like crafting a path for some of these people, I'm all ears
Last edited:
In TTL, Sun Commodore not only owns the Atari 7800, but also the Tramiel-era Atari computers: the 130XE and 520ST. The XE line of 8-bit computers was modestly successful in Europe, and the ST line carved out a pretty significant market niche in the music industry (largely because of its dedicated 2 MIDI ports, in addition to the built-in ACIA hardware).
The ST and Amiga overlap considerably, but -- particularly given the positive press from the '85 Winter CES -- I'd think Sun Commodore would find a market for the ST, too.
If anyone has more comments about James Bond I'd love to hear them.
I'm currently in the planning stages on the Star Trek: The Next Generation post which will cover the development of the series (but I'm almost certainly not going to be up to the task of rewriting all the episodes, so don't expect Brainbin style appendices) and I'm a little amused by how much stuff could have changed or happened differently.
Not to give anything away, although I imagine some could be guessed at since y'all have the same theoretical sources as me, but there was quite a bit of wrangling in the beginning and some… strange choices made by people who should have known better.
Anyway I wanted to open the floor: what particular things did you want/not want in TNG? I can't change everything of course, but my jumping off point to alter TNG does allow for a reasonable amount of changes.
At this point in time Paramount is gearing up for a theoretical fall 1987 launch and is in talks with the Big Three networks as well as Fox. They are also approaching actors and doing concept art and design.
If Fox gets it (and as a cheesecake award for contributing) I assume the uniforms will be something like this (fully clothed, but possibly NSFW).
One major goal of the combined company is to push their various platforms together as fast as possible. So if the ST does well expect priority on updating WorkBench to support ST programs & a specific Amiga ST model so they don't build too big a legacy base on the ST's operating system.
After all if they can get just a little C64-style momentum into Amiga they are in a good position to be at least as large a player as Apple's Macintosh computers.
I'm currently in the planning stages on the Star Trek: The Next Generation post which will cover the development of the series (but I'm almost certainly not going to be up to the task of rewriting all the episodes, so don't expect Brainbin style appendices) and I'm a little amused by how much stuff could have changed or happened differently.
Not to give anything away, although I imagine some could be guessed at since y'all have the same theoretical sources as me, but there was quite a bit of wrangling in the beginning and some… strange choices made by people who should have known better.
Anyway I wanted to open the floor: what particular things did you want/not want in TNG? I can't change everything of course, but my jumping off point to alter TNG does allow for a reasonable amount of changes.
At this point in time Paramount is gearing up for a theoretical fall 1987 launch and is in talks with the Big Three networks as well as Fox. They are also approaching actors and doing concept art and design.
If Fox gets it (and as a cheesecake award for contributing) I assume the uniforms will be something like this (fully clothed, but possibly NSFW).
One major goal of the combined company is to push their various platforms together as fast as possible. So if the ST does well expect priority on updating WorkBench to support ST programs & a specific Amiga ST model so they don't build too big a legacy base on the ST's operating system.
After all if they can get just a little C64-style momentum into Amiga they are in a good position to be at least as large a player as Apple's Macintosh computers.
Last edited:
In a perfect world, more elaborate alien designs, instead of the vast majority looking like, well, bumpy-foreheaded aliens. Also, play off of the arc set up in "Conspiracy", and have the *Borg be insectoid [1]. Go along with OTL, though, and kill off Yar, because without her Worf got his chance to shine.
Bur we'll see what you have in store.
[1] course, this may depend on how the writers strike goes...
Bur we'll see what you have in store.
[1] course, this may depend on how the writers strike goes...
Whatever you do with TNG, don't turn it into grimdark military sci-fi, which seems to be the central tendency on this board when people get asked how they'd change Star Trek.
That said, what I would have loved to see is for context in TNG. Roddenberry built quite a rich texture in his novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, building the context of the background of the Federation, some of which was echoed in TNG, but a lot just never made it.
I would simply love to see more of that. There were definite elements of transhumanism in the novelization that ultimately ended up lost, even in TNG. Kirk, for example, had a cybernetic senceiver implant, which was how in the opening pages of the novel, he learned about the destruction of the Klingon cruisers by the V'Ger cloud. Roddenberry spent a lot of work in the novelization explaining why the Federation wasn't the 20th century United States IN SPAAACCCCCEEEEEEEEEEE, and unfortunately much of the background about domestic life on Earth and just how even the much more conservative types in Starfleet differed from modern humans.
For example, the novelization explains that the traditional nuclear family was more or less no longer the norm, and that even by taking his father's surname in the traditional way, this marked Kirk's upbrining as more conservative and individualist. But even with his slightly more traditional upbringing, Kirk calmly and dispassionately explains that his first name was selected by his mother from her "first love-instructor", which seems to be a euphemism for a hands on sex-educator and perhaps lover.
It might be hard to have that realistically play out, but I think Star Trek would be more interesting if there could be more emphasis on humanity "growing out of its infancy", and particularly more explanation of what that means.
Thank you for the compliment
All right. Well, I'll leave aside what I personally want for TNG as a fan of TOS, for the sake of harmony in your thread, and because, sadly, I suspect that I would be outnumbered, and possibly mobbed. Something to consider, though, which dovetails nicely into our previous discussion, is the 1988 WGA Strike, which will almost certainly happen ITTL. TNG suffered majorly in terms of stories during this time (as did many other shows), and to be frank, I'm astonished that it survived IOTL. So I'll make this suggestion anyway, even though I know you'll discard it: TNG is cancelled after season 2. It is remembered as a sub-par and unworthy successor to the original series, and it becomes clear that Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, et al., are Star Trek, pure and simple. But that'll never happen in a timeline that I'm not writing, so...Electric Monk said:
But as I said before, altering the course of the strike will have huge butterfly effects. You mentioned Die Hard earlier; now there's a film with an incredibly convoluted development. They took one heck of a risk, casting "that guy from Moonlighting" as the lead, and it could be easily butterflied away. His show, in turn, suffered because of his absence, as well as Cybill Shepherd's maternity leave, and when combined with the aforementioned strike, it spelled the end of the show. Of course, the creators came to blame the serendipitous timing of finally ending the unresolved sexual tension between David and Maddie, resulting in many producers deciding to prolong or extend will-they-or-won't-they plots from then on (witness the decade-long dance between Ross and Rachel). And that's just one entirely logical butterfly to result from changing the course of this strike. It's an embarrassment of riches!
Of all the networks, I would put the likeliness of pickup at FOX-CBS-ABC-NBC, in that order. It would be a huge coup for FOX, of course, and it's bound to do at least as well as "Married... with Children", their OTL breakout hit. CBS is actually in pretty dire straits in this era, with only their Sunday night lineup ("60 Minutes", followed by "Murder, She Wrote") saving them from oblivion. ABC is doing much better, headed by their Tuesday night lineup ("Who's The Boss", "Growing Pains", and the aforementioned "Moonlighting"); and, of course, NBC is riding high, headed by the legendary Must See TV (Cosby! Cheers! Night Court! L.A. Law!).Electric Monk said:
I am looking forward to your take on TNG. Unlike with TOS, it's hard for me to imagine a better reception for the show, at least, taken as a whole, than the one it got IOTL. Sure, it had a slow start, but I think that's difficult to eliminate without getting rid of Roddenberry, and he very much took the reins of this show's development. Even if you somehow butterfly him away, that still leaves you with the WGA strike, and changing that will unleash the rabble of butterflies...
Last edited: