Disney's Avatar

After developing the concept what would eventually become Avatar for over a decade, James Cameron finally began developing the project in earnest in 2005/2006, with 20th Century Fox's reluctant backing. The key word here is "reluctant". They were very skeptical of the entire project, even as the concept art was being created and Weta Digital was signed on. Apparently, they even went so far as to tell Cameron in mid-2006 that "in no uncertain terms that they were passing on this film", so he began shopping it around elsewhere. Apparently, Disney was very interested in producing the movie, and attempted to take over the project. But, in an eleventh hour decision, Fox officially exercised their right of first refusal, agreeing to greenlight Avatar. The rest is history.

But what if that had not happened, and Disney had in fact produced Avatar? I can't think of any reason that production, casting, or marketing would be extremely different, so I'm forced to assume that it's probably released around the same time as in real life, and probably about as successful (though if anyone has a compelling case for believing the opposite, please share). What happens next will be interesting, though.

I assume Disney's acquisition of Marvel still goes through, but since they already own a massively successful science fiction property with franchise potential, would they still feel the need to go through with buying Star Wars? That in itself could have huge effects down the line. For merchandising reasons, would they pressure Cameron into making the sequels earlier, and maybe even signing off onto spin-offs, TV shows, cartoons, and other media set in the fictional universe?

Or maybe, with the massive success of Avatar under their belt, they go in the opposite direction, not only buying Marvel and Lucasfilm, but trying to make other high-profile acquisitions? Assuming that's the case, what are some likely targets?

Finally, assuming the former scenario is the case, does George Lucas still go ahead and sell Star Wars, but to someone else? If so, who are some potential buyers? Perhaps he goes and sells Lucasfilm to 20th Century Fox, the original distributors, bringing this scenario full circle. If that's the case, I assume the preproduction (what precious little we know of it) on the sequel trilogy shouldn't be too especially different, seeing as Kathleen Kennedy will still be in charge.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions? Comments?
 
I assume Disney's acquisition of Marvel still goes through, but since they already own a massively successful science fiction property with franchise potential, would they still feel the need to go through with buying Star Wars?

As a businessman do you put your money into a project that has netted $2.8 billion in it's lifetime or the one $27 billion in it's lifetime?

Torqumada
 
It would have had to have been released under the Miramax or Touchtone labels. Otherwise it would have had to have been bowdlerized to the exact same extent as John Carter was, and suffer at the box office as badly.

Would James Cameron really have been willing to have let his baby, his magnum opus be turned into Delgo meets Fern Gully meets The Martian Chronicles?
 
It would have had to have been released under the Miramax or Touchtone labels. Otherwise it would have had to have been bowdlerized to the exact same extent as John Carter was, and suffer at the box office as badly.

Would James Cameron really have been willing to have let his baby, his magnum opus be turned into Delgo meets Fern Gully meets The Martian Chronicles?

No offense to you specifically, but how many Pirates of the Caribbean movies and Marvel Cinematic Universe installments is Disney going to have to produce for this meme to go away? Heck, even in the case of John Carter, how was that bowdlerized more than your typical PG-13 action/adventure movie is nowadays?

(Though speaking of which, Disney producing Avatar may butterfly John Carter away, given the similarities.)
 
No offense to you specifically, but how many Pirates of the Caribbean movies and Marvel Cinematic Universe installments is Disney going to have to produce for this meme to go away? Heck, even in the case of John Carter, how was that bowdlerized more than your typical PG-13 action/adventure movie is nowadays?

(Though speaking of which, Disney producing Avatar may butterfly John Carter away, given the similarities.)

Did you actually read the source material?

John Carter himself was a sexist pig and a shameless apologist of the Confederacy, and he would have been the least objectionalble character in the series. Martian females (I refuse to call them "women" when they are to a one oviparous) were sluts even by modern American standards. The stories were more drenched in blood than anything by Robert E. Howard, and I did I mention that once the action gets to Mars, everyone but John is completely in the altogether? It would be like Duke Nukem with revolvers, rapiers, more nudity, and a silly pretense to high art.

But this is hijacking the thread. Pirates of the Carribean and sequels still can't hold a candle to Captain Blood, Blackbeard, or Pirates!, and Avatar under Disney would have been their best science fiction movie since Flight of the Navigator or even The Black Hole!
 
The Princess would have gotten a bigger role and a bigger superfluous plea for everyone to respect each other would have been thrown in. Think Space Pocahontas.
 
Did you actually read the source material?

John Carter himself was a sexist pig and a shameless apologist of the Confederacy, and he would have been the least objectionalble character in the series. Martian females (I refuse to call them "women" when they are to a one oviparous) were sluts even by modern American standards. The stories were more drenched in blood than anything by Robert E. Howard, and I did I mention that once the action gets to Mars, everyone but John is completely in the altogether? It would be like Duke Nukem with revolvers, rapiers, more nudity, and a silly pretense to high art.

I know this is off-topic, but I do feel the need to defend myself. I ask you, would ANY modern Hollywood studio have been more faithful to the source material, especially if they were shooting for a PG-13 rating?
 
The Princess would have gotten a bigger role and a bigger superfluous plea for everyone to respect each other would have been thrown in. Think Space Pocahontas.

While I disagree with your logic (though I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're saying this with tongue planted firmly in cheek), you do raise an interesting point. Since they're the same studio that made Pocahontas, might Disney urge Cameron to switch around some plot point, to distance the story a little more from Pocahontas?
 
Otherwise it would have had to have been bowdlerized to the exact same extent as John Carter was, and suffer at the box office as badly.

What the living fuck are you talking about? John Carter didn't fail because it didn't have enough sex and violence, it failed because nobody has any idea who John Carter of Mars is, and the name is all they sold the movie on.
 
As a businessman do you put your money into a project that has netted $2.8 billion in it's lifetime or the one $27 billion in it's lifetime?

Torqumada

Also owning Star Wars is a license to print money. It's a cultural icon that sells hundreds of thousands of toys, lego sets, books, and licensing deals.
 
I know this is off-topic, but I do feel the need to defend myself. I ask you, would ANY modern Hollywood studio have been more faithful to the source material, especially if they were shooting for a PG-13 rating?

Carallco, if not for Cutthroat Island or the money laundering probe. Orion Pictures. 20th Century Fox under its 80s and 90s regime.

All of them could have made it work.

Granted, until Disney picked it up, the person making the most noise about directing and/or producing it was Robert Rodriguez, before he quit the Directors Guild because of Sin City. He could have gotten the tone right, but production values would have been somewhere between Machete and Once Upon a Time in Mexico.
 
Didn't Disney already release it under the title Atlantis the Lost Empire? Or was it Pocahauntus, I can't keep track :p

On a serious note, we may see the Disney John Carter project and Avatar merged into one franchise - Cameron expressed interest in directing a movie based on John Carter of Mars at several times in the past, only circumstances never quite worked out. It's very likely Avatar becomes a modernized version of the John Carter novels, maybe even going by the names of the books.

Disney would likely still buy Star Wars because, lets be honest, they know it's basically a licence to print money and a franchise that will last for decades in the right hands (ie, outside of George Lucas'). They may use a trilogy of John Carter/Avatar films to bridge the gap until Star Wars Episode VII comes out.

I do imagine if nothing else, Disney would see Avatar be a little less derivative, which considering the god-awful retread plot is the movies biggest issue, would be a MASSIVE improvement.
 
Alright, assuming Disney still buys Star Wars, what are some projects Fox could take up, or existing ones they could more heavily push, in the absence of Avatar?

And assuming meddling by Disney makes the plot just enough different that there's less of a "Pocahontas in Space" stigma, could Avatar actually win Best Picture at the Oscars?
 
Alright, assuming Disney still buys Star Wars, what are some projects Fox could take up, or existing ones they could more heavily push, in the absence of Avatar?

Three big possibilities:

Alien vs. Preadator 3, This time in space with actual characters and scenarios from the Dark Horse comic.

Prometheus, supported much earlier, and given a bigger promotional budget.

Mass Effect: Fox scoops the property from WB/Legendary Pictures and puts either Guillerrmo Del Toro, Duncan Jones, or Peter Hyman in charge, with Corey Burton and/or Drew Karpyshyn as co-screenwriters and/or creative consultants, and fast-tracks it rather than let it languish in development hell.

The question becomes, who do you cast as Shepard? Most of the human (and Asari) characters look like their voice actors, but Mark Meer in real life is a stick figure, definitely not action hero material, and Jennifer Hale would have been pushing fifty and looked it.

Whoops, she would have only been 38, but she still looks more than ten years older than she is, and I couldn't picture her as a silver screen FemShep.
 
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and Jennifer Hale would have been pushing fifty and looked it.

Not saying they would have cast her anyway, but to be fair, Jennifer Hale is 41 years old. Today. She's younger than my parents, and they were the MTV Generation.

(That having been said, until I looked it up, I was 100% sure you were right.)
 
I agree that Avatar would probably a) be similar to OTL's film, and b) be released as a Miramax or Touchstone film rather than under the Disney banner. The film could even end up saving the Miramax brand! Disney would still probably purchase LucasArts since they've always been close--Star Tours and the Indiana Jones rides--but I think they could get away with not buying Marvel ITTL.

As for what Fox does instead,

Three big possibilities:

Aliens vs. Predator 3, This time in space with actual characters and scenarios from the Dark Horse comic.

Considering that AVP: Requiem was the lowest-grossing movie in the Alien franchise (not continuity), this would be a very tough sell to the studio execs. If it happens, an outer space setting is indeed a must--make it as different from the first two films as possible. I'd like at least shout outs to either the Capcom beat 'em up or the '97 and '99 FPSes by Rebellion and Monolith.

Prometheus, supported much earlier, and given a bigger promotional budget.

Oh yes, and hopefully with a better script too!

Mass Effect: Fox scoops the property from WB/Legendary Pictures and puts either Guillerrmo Del Toro, Duncan Jones, or Peter Hyman in charge, with Corey Burton and/or Drew Karpyshyn as co-screenwriters and/or creative consultants, and fast-tracks it rather than let it languish in development hell.

The question becomes, who do you cast as Shepard? Most of the human (and Asari) characters look like their voice actors, but Mark Meer in real life is a stick figure, definitely not action hero material, and Jennifer Hale would have been pushing fifty and looked it.

Whoops, she would have only been 38, but she still looks more than ten years older than she is, and I couldn't picture her as a silver screen FemShep.

Now this would probably be the best property to go head to head with Avatar! From what I've heard about a Mass Effect movie, they probably would not adapt the video games but have a story set in the same timeframe; this would alleviate problems with casting Shepard and permanently setting his/her continuity in stone altogether. You could still have an inspirational Shepard-like hero at the center of the plot, or the film could be about any of the party members' backstories/loyalty missions.
 
I assume Disney's acquisition of Marvel still goes through, but since they already own a massively successful science fiction property with franchise potential, would they still feel the need to go through with buying Star Wars?
George Lucas approached Disney first, IIRC
 
Right, I'll say it.

I loved John Carter, exactly as presented. I don't understand why it failed. It shouldn't have. It was a relatively lighthearted science fantasy romp - and when was the last time we got one of those? - across the surface of Mars. And this is coming from someone who's never read the books, only heard of them, so I have no idea what the original tone of the original stories was, and I don't really care.
 
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