It depends on whether the elites of Brazil (which tbf were fairly integrated into Portuguese politics and society) would feel that some equality between them and their Portuguese peers would exist. If it doesn't, Brazil would likely balkanize into multiple republics in the 1830s/40s. If it does, there's a good chance that outside of some wars and revolts, Brazil would remain a somewhat equal partner to Portugal, even if the latter has the capital and the Constitution on their side
This depends on a few factors, but the short answer is very little time. Dom Pedro was warned by his father that the time of Portugal's control over Brazil was ending and that he wanted Brazil to be under the royal house. So better his son than someone else.Question is in the title.
Had Pedro I decided to side with Portugal and not with the Brazilians how much longer would Brazil remain a part of Portugal?
Another interesting possibility is that he dies and Leopoldia, pregnant or with a child, leads to the Brazilian revolt.IMO if Pedro leaves, Brazil will likely be independent by the early to mid-1820s. The Empire was first declared in 1822 with him around, so perhaps 1823-1825, especially if the Portuguese try and remain and impose their ideas militarily.
Their first son, João Carlos, the Prince of Beira was born in March 1821—though he died in February 1822 (not sure of what). If he survives, there's a potential figurehead right there that Maria Leopoldine can serve as regent for. If he still dies and Pedro dies sometime in 1822, there are still their daughters: Maria da Glória (b. 1819; the OTL Maria II of Portugal) and then Januária (b. 1822) who was sometimes called the Princesa da Independência (Princess of Independence). Considering Portugal had a history of female succession (John VI had succeeded his mother Maria) the lack of a son is not necessarily a disqualifier—both princesses are born in Rio de Janeiro and Maria II was considered part of the Brazilian Imperial Family even she became Queen of Portugal... iirc she was not definitively excluded until 1835.Another interesting possibility is that he dies and Leopoldia, pregnant or with a child, leads to the Brazilian revolt.
I would say no, Miguel was an irridentist absolutist (his mother's fault). When he is on the throne he will want to revert to the absolutist kingdom, which will generate a lot of instability. The result of this is difficult to say, but if Leopoldina plays it right, this would be the time to separate Brazil from Portugal, with the king and parliament ready to kill each other.Dom Miguel likely becomes King of Portugal—without the OTL troubles that saw him betrothed to Maria II and named her regent, with the expectation that he would respect Pedro's Constitutional Charter. s.
I mean not only in Portugal, Miguel was considered a bastard with no royal blood by a large part of the elite. A rise of Portuguese republicans is something that could happen.but liberals in Portugal will not doubt seek to exploit those rumors
Well, I was discussing his OTL troubles. IATL, no Pedro means Miguel can directly succeed John VI.I would say no, Miguel was an irridentist absolutist (his mother's fault). When he is on the throne he will want to revert to the absolutist kingdom, which will generate a lot of instability. The result of this is difficult to say, but if Leopoldina plays it right, this would be the time to separate Brazil from Portugal, with the king and parliament ready to kill each other.
I think some segment of society did, but he also had plenty of support from others. It's worth remembering that when he returned from exile in 1828, many nobles and clergymen were begging him to revoke the Constitutional Charter and reign as King. The very same nobles who were nominated by Pedro to the Chamber of Peers were the same ones who offered him the crown. He did have some segment of support among the traditionalists, while the liberals could count of foreign support (Britain, the Spanish Liberals, and the July Monarchy of Louis Philippe). That he managed to hang on for six years says something—even in 1834 Miguel still had a somewhat formidable army of 18,000 men. He was doomed not only by his isolation and lack of outside support (the archconservative powers of the 1830s—Austria, Prussia, and Russia can't do much for him) but also his nebulous situation as a usurper (though some certainly saw him as the rightful heir/king). No Pedro and a direct succession in 1826 (or him succeeding in displacing John VI in 1823-24) would give Miguel a lot more legitimacy, especially if he comes to power when the absolutists are in ascendance.I mean not only in Portugal, Miguel was considered a bastard with no royal blood by a large part of the elite. A rise of Portuguese republicans is something that could happen.
That might cause an intervention from other powers.I do however think that Portugal developing a republican movement is likely, and could possibly happen sooner than OTL (iirc, the first Portuguese Republican Party was founded in 1876 with the goal of overthrowing the monarchy).
Agree.Honestly if you want the dual monarchy to continue your best bet is probably avoiding the death of King Joao VI. There’s a good chance he might have been poisoned by his wife considering how the two hated each other. Assuming the plot is foiled and her imprisoned her, this changes things greatly.
The other thing you need is to better manage the end of the war situation. The custodian government of the British was unpopular and the Portuguese wanted their King.
Joao could have mollified these issues by sending Pedro to Portugal as his envoy. Heck he could have even sent Miguel ensuring that the royal presence was felt in the Lusophone realms.
That might cause an intervention from other powers.
It goes beyond John VI surviving, though—he wasn't necessarily old in 1826, but Brazil had already split by the time he passed away. He probably was poisoned, though: in 1990 fragments of his heart were rehydrated and tested and there was enough arsenic within those fragments to kill two people. Getting rid of Carlota Joaquina means a more steady ship and neuters the queen's party, but it doesn't fix the other issues unfortunately: there is no stomach for a dual monarchy situation among the Portuguese delegates, who dominated the constituent assembly. They wanted Brazil to remain a part of the Portuguese Empire, but not as a constituent kingdom with it's own government and rights.Honestly if you want the dual monarchy to continue your best bet is probably avoiding the death of King Joao VI. There’s a good chance he might have been poisoned by his wife considering how the two hated each other. Assuming the plot is foiled and her imprisoned her, this changes things greatly.
His original plan was for Pedro to go to Lisbon as regent, to mollify the Portuguese and grant a constitution. Pedro refused. Sending Miguel, even alone would've been a nightmare—there is no doubt that he'd be intriguing from Lisbon through letters to his mother to seize the throne.Joao could have mollified these issues by sending Pedro to Portugal as his envoy. Heck he could have even sent Miguel ensuring that the royal presence was felt in the Lusophone realms.
From who? Spain would be the closest, and in no state to interfere anywhere when they can barely deal with the troubles in their own colonies and country. A developing Republican movement doesn't give grounds for any sort of intervention. Such movements were common in Italy and even France in the 1820s: they functioned underground and were not public movements. Hard to deal with something that operates from the shadows.That might cause an intervention from other powers.
I think that's the main issue with John VI, though: he wasn't exactly a man who could rouse himself into action, and tended to let events dominate him. Without the revolts in 1820 in Portugal (which even spread into parts of Brazil and even Rio de Janeiro), he likely would've been content to remain in Brazil the rest of his life.Joao should have returned to Lisbon some time after the Congress of Vienna, dumping Carlotta overboard along the way, and maintain some sort of control over the Empire. Pedro, left behind in Brazil, would not have the crisis of 20-22 to exploit. It would help if Pedro were not so hotheaded, and more of a leader working with his father. Begging for release from a leadership role is not a good trait in a guy who was born into a destined leadership role.
I know Joao first wanted to send Pedro in his stead. My impression was that the Cortes said no, we want the King, expecting the whole family would return. Pedro may have had reservations about going, but ultimately the decision was not his to make. And, remaining was a bad decision. Pedro was more of a liberal constitutionalist, which is closer to what the Cortes wanted. I can envision Pedro usurping the Crown, while Joao remains in Brazil. Without character changes to both men, the whole thing blows up, but the possibility exists that Pedro can moderate the revolution enough that terms of union can be sorted out. Joao would not enjoy the confidence of the Brazilian liberals, so he'd have a harder time taking Brazil to independence, but he might be able to moderate their fervor.It goes beyond John VI surviving, though—he wasn't necessarily old in 1826, but Brazil had already split by the time he passed away. He probably was poisoned, though: in 1990 fragments of his heart were rehydrated and tested and there was enough arsenic within those fragments to kill two people. Getting rid of Carlota Joaquina means a more steady ship and neuters the queen's party, but it doesn't fix the other issues unfortunately: there is no stomach for a dual monarchy situation among the Portuguese delegates, who dominated the constituent assembly. They wanted Brazil to remain a part of the Portuguese Empire, but not as a constituent kingdom with it's own government and rights.
His original plan was for Pedro to go to Lisbon as regent, to mollify the Portuguese and grant a constitution. Pedro refused. Sending Miguel, even alone would've been a nightmare—there is no doubt that he'd be intriguing from Lisbon through letters to his mother to seize the throne.
From who? Spain would be the closest, and in no state to interfere anywhere when they can barely deal with the troubles in their own colonies and country. A developing Republican movement doesn't give grounds for any sort of intervention. Such movements were common in Italy and even France in the 1820s: they functioned underground and were not public movements. Hard to deal with something that operates from the shadows.
I think that's the main issue with John VI, though: he wasn't exactly a man who could rouse himself into action, and tended to let events dominate him. Without the revolts in 1820 in Portugal (which even spread into parts of Brazil and even Rio de Janeiro), he likely would've been content to remain in Brazil the rest of his life.
John returning to Portugal at any point is going to bring things to head, though: given the concessions made to the Brazilians during his period of exile there, there will be many who will seek to renege on those agreements once John VI is safely back in Lisbon. The big issue is the inequality between Portugal and Brazil: by 1800, Brazil already had a larger population (3.3 million in 1800, 4.7 in 1820.) compared to Portugal (2.8 million in 1800). Sure, it's not a large gap, but it shows which way the wind is blowing: for Portugal, the choices are either to attempt to reestablish some control over Brazil and seek to turn back the clock on the relationship (an almost impossible challenge) or accept the dual monarchy as it stands. I think for most Portuguese delegates and politicians, the second option is impossible to consider as it could quite possibly lead to a situation down the road where Portugal's standing within the dual monarchy is reduced to that of a junior partner.
Wouldn't a more divided Brazilian leadership have much more difficulties gaining its independence?Brazil would likely balkanize into multiple republics in the 1830s/40s
True that is something to consider. Even with Pedro there in otl and Joao VI tacitly approving it, the Portuguese troops still fought to keep Brazil with Portugal. With more divided leadership, Brazil would probably be divided.Wouldn't a more divided Brazilian leadership have much more difficulties gaining its independence?
Would the Brazilian leadership be divided? Pedro I as monarch probably acts as a unifier and rallying point, but it's not like Pedro was the one getting the factions together. They were the ones who sought to use him. I'm thinking it is easy to see the various regional leaders banding together to achieve independence, and then falling out (balkanizing) afterward when they couldn't agree on how to run the new country. That's basically what happened in OTL, except the federal/central gov't managed to put down the various independence movements. Then they rushed Pedro II to the throne, so the monarchy could act as a stabilizing force. Without a monarch to preserve Brazil's unity for, I think the balkanization has more of a chance.True that is something to consider. Even with Pedro there in otl and Joao VI tacitly approving it, the Portuguese troops still fought to keep Brazil with Portugal. With more divided leadership, Brazil would probably be divided.