DBWI: WI the Nordic Union was never formed

Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Apparently to meet demand, Saab has been looking at expanding the GAZ-Saab-Scania plant in Kaunas (Currently only producing cars for the Soviet market, in contrast to the plants in Svendborg and Trollhättan) and moving some of the 9-1 production there, but are unsure the build quality is up to the standards of the Danish/Swedish built cars yet, and really don't want another fiasco like the plant in Mechelen (It's said their market share in Mechelen is STILL well below their average in Belgium). Any Soviet members know how good the Lithuanian built Saabs are?. They are also looking at sites in the US, since a lot of their sales are there. Not the most reliable source I know, but an online friend of mine in Maryland said he heard Saab guys were scouting out land in Hagerstown.

On the other hand, the Icelandic government is really pushing high tech, clean energy, et cetera, and the cheap geothermal and hydroelectric power is attracting aluminum processors to open plants, so there are some advantages to a Reykjavik plant, especially if they do a very clean "Glass factory" technical showcase thing, like the Volvo plant that opened a few years ago in Finland.

Having actually driven a Lithuanian Saab, I can definitely tell you that they are nothing compared to the original. I mean sure, it's miles better than the other Soviet cars, but you still know by the feel of the thing that it's nothing but a low price version of the original. Besides, I don't think Saab would want to sully their name by getting in even deeper with GAZ, a company which has had several reported human rights violations in the factories (not that I've heard anything about the Kaunas plant, but still...).

I have heard some talk about placing the plant in Kramfors, and since the defense wing of the company already has an office there, it may lead to some minor decreases in administrative costs. But I still don't see them setting up shop there anyway.

The way I see it, in the end it will stand between these three locations:

-Longbridge, UK (since Saab owns a 35% stake in the Rover Group, I could see this happening since the Longbridge plant is only running on 60% capacity anyway)
-Reykjavik, Iceland (recent tax breaks offered by the Icelandic government to corporations who want to invest in Iceland could make this a possibility, but it all depends on how good of a pitch the Icelandic gov't can make)
-?, USA (as you said, a lot of their customers are in the US, so it would be a good idea for them to expand their operations there, but besides what your friend said we don't know much about any specific locations they may have in mind)
 

sharlin

Banned
A bit off topic I know but if you get a chance when visiting Stockholm go and visit the naval museum there, they have one of two intact Armoured cruisers in the world the Flyga and the old Norwegian coastal defense battleship the Norge, I went there in the summer and it was a joy, the recorded guides are available in English and all the signs and points of interest are in English, Swedish (which I thinks the official language for the NU), German and French.
 
A bit off topic I know but if you get a chance when visiting Stockholm go and visit the naval museum there, they have one of two intact Armoured cruisers in the world the Flyga and the old Norwegian coastal defense battleship the Norge, I went there in the summer and it was a joy, the recorded guides are available in English and all the signs and points of interest are in English, Swedish (which I thinks the official language for the NU), German and French.

Yeah I've been to that museum. It's pretty damn cool.

Well sort of, yeah. When the NU was formed the number of Swedish speakers greatly outnumbered any other language so it was decided that swedish would start being taught from third grade in all the non-swedish speaking countries. But it doesn't matter if you go to Denmark or Iceland, Danish and Iceland will still be very dominant. Swedish is just the language we use to communicate with each other across internal borders. Y'know, it's like how english works in international affairs.
 
-?, USA (as you said, a lot of their customers are in the US, so it would be a good idea for them to expand their operations there, but besides what your friend said we don't know much about any specific locations they may have in mind)

The key thing is labor costs and transportation, so if they build a US plant, 90% chance they put it in the southeast, 10% chance they put it in a more conservative leaning part of the midwest (Like Indiana or southwestern Michigan). Their biggest market in the US is in the northeast, so putting it somewhere close helps with that. Looking up Hagerstown on Nupedia, it's a major rail hub for both CSR and Norfolk Southern, and interestingly enough also has some history in aviation; they even built some of the Fairchild F-17s there before they merged with Lockheed. Might be interesting to Saab ;).

A bit off topic I know but if you get a chance when visiting Stockholm go and visit the naval museum there, they have one of two intact Armoured cruisers in the world the Flyga and the old Norwegian coastal defense battleship the Norge, I went there in the summer and it was a joy, the recorded guides are available in English and all the signs and points of interest are in English, Swedish (which I thinks the official language for the NU), German and French.

We're already way off topic :D.

Well sort of, yeah. When the NU was formed the number of Swedish speakers greatly outnumbered any other language so it was decided that swedish would start being taught from third grade in all the non-swedish speaking countries. But it doesn't matter if you go to Denmark or Iceland, Danish and Iceland will still be very dominant. Swedish is just the language we use to communicate with each other across internal borders. Y'know, it's like how english works in international affairs.

I sort've thought they tried to develop a "Common Nordic" but I guess that never really happened or was just something bureaucrats came up with and everyone else disregarded :eek:.
 
I sort've thought they tried to develop a "Common Nordic" but I guess that never really happened or was just something bureaucrats came up with and everyone else disregarded :eek:.

From what my cousins over in Denmark tell me, they did, but it really never caught on until the advent of the Internet. Give it a generation, and Norse may be a viable language in Scandinavia.
 
The key thing is labor costs and transportation, so if they build a US plant, 90% chance they put it in the southeast, 10% chance they put it in a more conservative leaning part of the midwest (Like Indiana or southwestern Michigan). Their biggest market in the US is in the northeast, so putting it somewhere close helps with that. Looking up Hagerstown on Nupedia, it's a major rail hub for both CSR and Norfolk Southern, and interestingly enough also has some history in aviation; they even built some of the Fairchild F-17s there before they merged with Lockheed. Might be interesting to Saab ;).

Well I don't think labor costs would be that big of a bump in the road for Saab if they're looking to establish themselves in the northeastern parts of the US. Honestly, I doubt that labor costs in any state in the US can measure up to the costs we have over here.
Hmm... yeah it does seem like a pretty interesting location for a factory. It's pretty close to the port of Baltimore too, which is good.
Well yeah, they've been milking their aviation heritage for years now, so doubt that setting up shop in town which used to manufacture fighter jets could hurt. Even though they weren't Saab's fighters. ;)

I sort've thought they tried to develop a "Common Nordic" but I guess that never really happened or was just something bureaucrats came up with and everyone else disregarded :eek:.

Well they did try that with written language but it never really caught on. I've looked at some of it myself, and it just felt too artificial. For now Swedish works just fine as a way for us to communicate with each other across the borders. But there's no need to try and turn it into some kind of official language, because that would just seem to lessen the importance of all our other languages (though Finnish is a real bitch! No matter how hard I try, I can never understand it :p).

Ahh right got you, I wasn't sure and hope I didn't offend anyone from the NU :) also I know this is high satire but...

http://satwcomic.com/language-lesson

isnt that apparently true? A Dane I work with said it was basically true.

Heh! Notice how at the end America has built a little wall of corn flakes boxes between him and Mexico? :D
 
Besides, I don't think Saab would want to sully their name by getting in even deeper with GAZ, a company which has had several reported human rights violations in the factories (not that I've heard anything about the Kaunas plant, but still...).

Thinking about this, I thought I remembered there was some possibility the NU government wouldn't approve the GAZ deal, so I looked it up and apparently a group of Communist (A little ironic...) and SDL MPs had challenged it on grounds it violated NU laws against doing business with known human rights abusers, but a certain influential MP (Who just so happened to live right down the street from Saab's headquarters in Linköping...) argued that reported and known were different enough things to clear the deal. I guess even in the least corrupt countries you can't avoid politicians being slimy :rolleyes:.

Then, of course, GAZ (Sort of) admitted mistakes were made, but don't worry, it's all better now, and the NU trade department wisely told Saab they had to put a permanent corporate responsibility rep in Kaunas and that he had to be a Nordic national too, so they couldn't hire a Russian flunkie. Luckily the Russians are really keen on making sure the west sees they've changed, so it's not likely they'd be too flagrant when everyone is watching.

OOC: We can assume that ICly, the identity of the aforementioned slimy politician in question is obvious :eek:.

Well I don't think labor costs would be that big of a bump in the road for Saab if they're looking to establish themselves in the northeastern parts of the US. Honestly, I doubt that labor costs in any state in the US can measure up to the costs we have over here.

Well, maybe not quite Nordic level, but labor costs in the northeast are pretty high, and American trade unions and management are less inclined to cooperate with each other than the ones in Germany or the Nordic Union, which you avoid if you set up in a right-to-work state. Plus, lower wages are offset by the fact that the government here doesn't pick up the tab for healthcare.

Anyway, more on topic, without the Nordic Union example, internationalism might be set back; while unlike the NU it isn't an actual single sovereign state yet, the closer integration of the Benelux states was inspired partly by the NU (Although partly by getting fed up with the British screaming bloody murder every time someone suggested the European Community move towards closer integration) and Dag Hammarskjöld's mediation was instrumental in getting the Union of Arab Maghreb Republics off the ground.

Actually, the NU has overall been a great help in mediating between the west and the third world; being neutral and without imperialist baggage, they seem to garner more respect in Africa or the Middle East than Britain or France do. Their advocacy for the Namibian cause against Apartheid South Africa for example was so effective that IIRC at the independence celebrations a lot of Namibians waved NU flags (Incidentally, half of Namibians are Lutherans, the only Lutheran-majority country in the world other than the NU, in no small part due to the work of 19th century Finnish missionaries, and some Swedish and Norwegian church organizations were well known for declaring solidarity with the Namibians, which also helped endear them to the Nordics).

OOC again: I'm curious about the likely fate of the monarchist trappings in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. Would they keep their monarchies and state churches after the union, just now on a subnational level?
 
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Thinking about this, I thought I remembered there was some possibility the NU government wouldn't approve the GAZ deal, so I looked it up and apparently a group of Communist (A little ironic...) and SDL MPs had challenged it on grounds it violated NU laws against doing business with known human rights abusers, but a certain influential MP (Who just so happened to live right down the street from Saab's headquarters in Linköping...) argued that reported and known were different enough things to clear the deal. I guess even in the least corrupt countries you can't avoid politicians being slimy :rolleyes:. .

I think it's a rule of nature. All polticians must be slimy opportunistic bastards, no matter where you go. ;)

OOC: We can assume that ICly, the identity of the aforementioned slimy politician in question is obvious :eek:.

OOC: Yep.

Well, maybe not quite Nordic level, but labor costs in the northeast are pretty high, and American trade unions and management are less inclined to cooperate with each other than the ones in Germany or the Nordic Union, which you avoid if you set up in a right-to-work state. Plus, lower wages are offset by the fact that the government here doesn't pick up the tab for healthcare.

But do you remember all the stormy weather around IKEA when it was shown that employees of their plants in North Carolina (I think..) were being treated poorly. By setting up shop somewhere with questionable labor practices, Nordic companies are just creating a whole lot of bad publicity back home.

Anyway, more on topic, without the Nordic Union example, internationalism might be set back; while unlike the NU it isn't an actual single sovereign state yet, the closer integration of the Benelux states was inspired partly by the NU (Although partly by getting fed up with the British screaming bloody murder every time someone suggested the European Community move towards closer integration) and Dag Hammarskjöld's mediation was instrumental in getting the Union of Arab Maghreb Republics off the ground.

Actually, the NU has overall been a great help in mediating between the west and the third world; being neutral and without imperialist baggage, they seem to garner more respect in Africa or the Middle East than Britain or France do. Their advocacy for the Namibian cause against Apartheid South Africa for example was so effective that IIRC at the independence celebrations a lot of Namibians waved NU flags (Incidentally, half of Namibians are Lutherans, the only Lutheran-majority country in the world other than the NU, in no small part of 19th century Finnish missionaries, and some Swedish and Norwegian church organizations were well known for declaring solidarity with the Namibians, which also helped endear them to the Nordics).

Well technically it is. I mean we have a common trade policy, common defense policy, common foreign policy, Nordic embassies in other countries, not Danish, Swedish, Finnish, etc., Nordic representatives at the UN. Granted we're not completely integrated, but I personally cannot see the NU as full on unitary state in the future. I do see us moving in the federal direction, especially after the creation of the Nordic Police Service back in '02.

Well, IMO, with their similar history, languages, and culture, the Benelux countries were going to unite somewhere down the road anyway. The NU was just a sign pointing them in the right direction. Though the self imposed isolation of Britain under Prime Minister Powell sure didn't hurt.

Yeah, Dag Hammarskjöld was a great statesman. Without him as a unifying figure in our early days as a nation I don't know if would've become a well respected power on the international scene. His general popularity among the general populace of the NU also helped a lot, because of someone tremendously unpopular had been in power during our early days, who knows if the union would've lasted.

It's weird actually, how popular you suddenly get if you reveal that you're a Nordic Union citizen when you visit Namibia. I haven't personally gone, but my buddy has and he said that people were all over him, trying to buy him drinks in bars, etc. I know that the close relationship with Namibia has certainly helped Nordic companies who want to gain a foothold there. If you look at the numbers, you can see that most of the top ten multinational companies that invest in Namibia, are in fact Nordic in origin. Hell, we know for a fact that Scania and Volvo both have significant plants there, building trucks and buses for the African market.

OOC again: I'm curious about the likely fate of the monarchist trappings in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. Would they keep their monarchies and state churches after the union, just now on a subnational level?

OOC: We can assume that they keep their monarchies on a subnational level, but the state churches could eventually be completely separated from the state, just like what happened with the Church of Sweden 11 years ago.
 
Well technically it is. I mean we have a common trade policy, common defense policy, common foreign policy, Nordic embassies in other countries, not Danish, Swedish, Finnish, etc., Nordic representatives at the UN. Granted we're not completely integrated, but I personally cannot see the NU as full on unitary state in the future. I do see us moving in the federal direction, especially after the creation of the Nordic Police Service back in '02.

Ah, I meant that the Benelux Union isn't :eek:.
 
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