Cinema w/o Russian Revolution?

[juanml82]

Interesting, as OTL Golden Hollywood was more known for "realist"/Bazin-esque styles like Chaplin, Hawkes, Ford, and Welles; here, they'd also be pioneering the counterpoint style as well. I imagine this would have profound influence of film criticism for decades to come.

Sure, but a more realistic style doesn't preclude the use of Einsestein style of editing as long as all images are contained within the story. IE, no jump from a character to a peacock, but jumps from one character to something/someone else within the story which looks to achieve a similar effect

 

[Expat]

Sure, but a more realistic style doesn't preclude the use of Einsestein style of editing as long as all images are contained within the story. IE, no jump from a character to a peacock, but jumps from one character to something/someone else within the story which looks to achieve a similar effect

I'm as grateful to Bordwell as anyone for the intro he gave me (and probably many participants on this thread) into film history and theory, but I've never been to keen on his propagation of the term "Hollywood Realism." It muddies the waters, since we're talking about the artistic movement of realism at all, but rather an attempt to make an illusion seem seamless to the audience. I've heard classical Hollywood called more romantic than realist, and I'm inclined to agree.

And of course the seminal example of Soviet montage, Potemkin, is not particularly experimental. The jumps are all within a defined, narrative space.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

I think the role of the Soviets as mechanical or even psychological innovators is often overstated- which has the effect of sometimes undervaluing their artistic accomplishments.

These tools were being explored around the world at the same time as the Soviets. Again, I would point to Stroheim as a potent example of a man who could use a montage, but also early newsreels did this constantly.

So again I posit that the techniques are not going to spread any slower.

Sure, but a more realistic style doesn't preclude the use of Einsestein style of editing as long as all images are contained within the story. IE, no jump from a character to a peacock, but jumps from one character to something/someone else within the story which looks to achieve a similar effect

And of course the seminal example of Soviet montage, Potemkin, is not particularly experimental. The jumps are all within a defined, narrative space.

So, short answer, Hollywood could just as well pioneer (what OTL considers) Soviet style montage.

What we're not talking about is the films that were made before the revolution and whether there are any interesting threads there that we might tug on. I must confess I know little about pre-war Russian cinema. Just from what wikipedia has to say, it doesn't sound particularly remarkable, but there are a few potential bright lights mentioned.

I've never seen one of his films, but I would guess Protazanov would remain the big guy in Russian cinema for awhile longer TTL.

 

[Not Henry G.]

No Rocky IV, for one thing.

A world without Rocky IV is not a world I want to live in.