British Watchmen?

[Desmond Hume]

Crazy idea I just had...

WI Alan Moore sets Watchmen in Britain instead of the USA? How would this change it?

This probably requires a POD unrelated to the making of Watchmen itself though...


EDIT: this probably should've gone in Books and Media. oops

 

[Keenir]

WI Alan Moore sets Watchmen in Britain instead of the USA? How would this change it?

Christopher Foyle fights crime with his superbrain....assisted by the slinky Samantha, and backed up by the half-robot D.C. Milner.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

(Assuming he could get hold of the copyrights) the thinly disguised Charlton Comics superheroes would have been replaced by thinly disguised IPC Comics superheroes. This would lead to a different plot as I don't think Britain ever produced an equivalent of Dr Manhattan/Captain Atom or Rorschach/The Question.

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

Wouldn't really have to change the overall plot much.

Hell, you could still have them fighting in Vietnam even, butterfly in British help in the war.

More of an equal alliance between the US and the UK with the UK contributing Dr. Manhattan to the balance of power.

And with the US owing the UK for winning Vietnam, albeit that would probably be a issue of very hot debate on alternate history sites!

And Ozzymandus's evil plan works just as well regardless of which nation he started in.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

You're assuming Moore would simply transplant American superheroes into a British setting.

I take it you haven't read Albion

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

You're assuming Moore would simply transplant American superheroes into a British setting.

I take it you haven't read Albion

The overall theme would still remain.

The struggle between mankind's self destructive nature and those who would rule it (benevolently-ish) and those who would defend it despite it's flaws/blind to it's flaws.


Would having British characters really change that much?

 

[ninebucks]

In Watchmen, Doctor Manhattan is reborn in 1959. Assuming that in the British context, this happens at the same point, we are looking at a radically different scenario.

1959 was only three years after the Suez Crisis, the event that is considered to have been the nail in the coffin of the British Empire. If, three years after this humiliation, the British government find themselves in possession of a superman, then I think its safe to assume that a few of those nails will be pried out of that coffin. I think the idea that if the UK developed such an infinite advantage at this stage, they would freely hand it over to Washington is ridiculous. The USA and the USSR would be fucked, we'd be having our Empire back thank you very much.

The colonial insurgencies throughout the Empire would be crushed, (or rather, disintegrated), India, (which in the Watchmen TL, is a failed state), would be reconquered, and the geopolitical structure of the world would be reformed, with London as its centre of gravity.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

The overall theme would still remain.

The struggle between mankind's self destructive nature and those who would rule it (benevolently-ish) and those who would defend it despite it's flaws/blind to it's flaws.


Would having British characters really change that much?

I think it would. For a start who from the pantheon of British comic heroes of the 1950s/60s fits the Rorschach/Question role of dogged, slightly psychotic, enigmatic detective/vigilante? I can't quite remember what Dr Manhattan's part in the story was (other than to be blue, naked and omnieverything), but I'm guessing it was pivotal. So which British superhero could be retooled to fulfill that role?

Then there's Ozymandias (just need a genius to replace him), Silk Spectre and Night Owl. The latter two are really on the peripheries of the main plot (King Cobra for Night Owl, perhaps? No idea who could replace SS), so it doesn't really matter who fills in for them.

 

[charl]

Dr Manhattan would be called Dr Yorkshire for one thing.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

Or Dr Tube-Alloys

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

In Watchmen, Doctor Manhattan is reborn in 1959. Assuming that in the British context, this happens at the same point, we are looking at a radically different scenario.

1959 was only three years after the Suez Crisis, the event that is considered to have been the nail in the coffin of the British Empire. If, three years after this humiliation, the British government find themselves in possession of a superman, then I think its safe to assume that a few of those nails will be pried out of that coffin. I think the idea that if the UK developed such an infinite advantage at this stage, they would freely hand it over to Washington is ridiculous. The USA and the USSR would be fucked, we'd be having our Empire back thank you very much.

The colonial insurgencies throughout the Empire would be crushed, (or rather, disintegrated), India, (which in the Watchmen TL, is a failed state), would be reconquered, and the geopolitical structure of the world would be reformed, with London as its centre of gravity.

So instead of an America/Soviet Cold War, with America tooling up for a first strike

We have a, hold your breath, a British Empire/Soviet Cold War with the Brits tooling up for a first strike.

It would more interesting for alt history fans but...

 

[Sovereign12]

So instead of an America/Soviet Cold War, with America tooling up for a first strike

We have a, hold your breath, a British Empire/Soviet Cold War with the Brits tooling up for a first strike.

It would more interesting for alt history fans but...

I think it would be a three way Cold War. The USSR vs UK vs US, with the UK and US being more of friendly rivals. Yet, with Dr Magnox (based off of the early reactors developed by the UK) the US would slowly develop a bit of a nervous paranoia about the UK's true intentions.

I could see Ozymandias replaced by Sexton Blake. I'm not sure what this new character would be called in a UK Watchmen-verse; Merlin maybe?

 

[The Red]

Probably a 3 Way Cold War, the British Dr Manhattan crushing the IRA and Zeppelins over London. Basically a modernised Scarlet Traces.

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

I think it would be a three way Cold War. The USSR vs UK vs US, with the UK and US being more of friendly rivals. Yet, with Dr Magnox (based off of the early reactors developed by the UK) the US would slowly develop a bit of a nervous paranoia about the UK's true intentions.

I could see Ozymandias replaced by Sexton Blake. I'm not sure what this new character would be called in a UK Watchmen-verse; Merlin maybe?

You're talking setting and background, no changes to the Characters (beyond their names), the plot, themes, or message.

Question: is the world differant enough that "Merlin" wouldn't feel a need to save mankind from nuclear war?

 

[Sovereign12]

You're talking setting and background, no changes to the Characters (beyond their names), the plot, themes, or message.

Question: is the world differant enough that "Merlin" wouldn't feel a need to save mankind from nuclear war?

As to Dr Magnox, I would think the British government would look to him as keeping the balance between the US and UK. Without having to spend the money and time in developing their own nuclear weapons program they use the money for space exploration. (Which Merlin uses to his advantage by setting up a fake alien invasion of London{Dalek like?}).

Well, Merlin would probably see the need of strengthening the UK-Commonwealth, or the World, with a single strong leader. Think of it as a highly modified King Arthur. Merlin may even be the Merlin from the earlier stories, released from his imprisonment in the late 1800s, but suffering from amnesia and becoming a sleuth. Over the intervening decades he slowly remembers who his is and realizes were he went wrong in setting up Arthur as king. This time he plans to do it correctly. Ironically, Merlin is actually an alien from the long extinct Gantri Empire (Trigan Empire) the only survivor from the crashed ship.

The Rorshach character I could see being based off of the Steel Claw and probably being called Long Arm or maybe Pareidolia. A former police officer slowly driven mad by the cybernetic hand and the continuing degradation of society.

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

As to Dr Magnox, I would think the British government would look to him as keeping the balance between the US and UK. Without having to spend the money and time in developing their own nuclear weapons program they use the money for space exploration. (Which Merlin uses to his advantage by setting up a fake alien invasion of London{Dalek like?}).

Unlikely. Any "savings" more likely sucked up by either OTL piorities, such as political patronage, social spending or ATL expenses related to the surviving Empire.

Well, Merlin would probably see the need of strengthening the UK-Commonwealth, or the World, with a single strong leader. Think of it as a highly modified King Arthur. Merlin may even be the Merlin from the earlier stories, released from his imprisonment in the late 1800s, but suffering from amnesia and becoming a sleuth. Over the intervening decades he slowly remembers who his is and realizes were he went wrong in setting up Arthur as king. This time he plans to do it correctly. Ironically, Merlin is actually an alien from the long extinct Gantri Empire (Trigan Empire) the only survivor from the crashed ship.

This is the guy the did V and Constantine! A stronger goverment is not going to be the answer, even if it is British.

The Rorshach character I could see being based off of the Steel Claw and probably being called Long Arm or maybe Pareidolia. A former police officer slowly driven mad by the cybernetic hand and the continuing degradation of society.

Well, I like it. But look at the differance between your version and Rorschak, diven by the pain of being the child of a whore.

I don't think you quite see how dark and anti-human Moore's POV is.

 

[Sovereign12]

This is the guy the did V and Constantine! A stronger goverment is not going to be the answer, even if it is British.

Well the original Watchmen had stronger government with the Nixon regime. In this case Merlin wants to replace the British Government with what he percieves to be better. Which doesn't mean it will be.

Well, I like it. But look at the differance between your version and Rorschak, diven by the pain of being the child of a whore.

I don't think you quite see how dark and anti-human Moore's POV is.

I was just trying to work up some possible characters from British heroes, since he wouldn't use the Charleston heroes as a base, before getting to the dark meat of the story. (just noticed this was a bad pun.)

Well as to Long Arm, maybe he went through the same thing with his mother as Rorshach, but one of the johns got angry at him for interrupting them and broke Long Arms, eh, arm. As he grew up the arm would always bother him until one day while on duty he gets into a shoot out and he is shot in the arm. He had already signed up to be a possible guinea pig for medical research so a black ops group uses him as a test subject for a bionic arm. When released back into public Long Arm has no memory of how he received the arm and goes back to work, while investigated how he got the arm.

The investigation would lead to paranoia about secret societies and spies running the world, plus the confrontation with everyday criminals moves him to fight crime behind a mask.



Thinking on this more, what British government would more use as his Nixon-like regime?

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

Well the original Watchmen had stronger government with the Nixon regime. In this case Merlin wants to replace the British Government with what he percieves to be better. Which doesn't mean it will be.

Why didn't Ozzyimandus try replacing the Nixon goverment? Seems less extreme than killing millions to save billions.

IMO what you are doing is doing is more of an Alt.History.Com reimagining of the Watchmen than a British set Moore Watchmen.

Which is better than the OP, IMO. Moore wrote the story he wanted to tell. It is a reflection of his POV, his view of the world and human nature.

I would be happy to imagine how we/I would do it, but I have no reason to think that Moore would significantly change the story he wanted to tell.


Hell, you want a less dark plot? Ozzy is a soviet agent (thus he has an Ideological purpose instead of "humanitarian" maddness) , the Comedian only finds out about the cancer plot, not that it is a purposefull ploy, but still he needs to die.

The Sovs are planning the first strike once they unbalance the Balance of Power.



The Soviet Union, the avowed enemy of the West, as the bad guy...

THat's just crazy enough to work!

I was just trying to work up some possible characters from British heroes, since he wouldn't use the Charleston heroes as a base, before getting to the dark meat of the story. (just noticed this was a bad pun.)

Well as to Long Arm, maybe he went through the same thing with his mother as Rorshach, but one of the johns got angry at him for interrupting them and broke Long Arms, eh, arm. As he grew up the arm would always bother him until one day while on duty he gets into a shoot out and he is shot in the arm. He had already signed up to be a possible guinea pig for medical research so a black ops group uses him as a test subject for a bionic arm. When released back into public Long Arm has no memory of how he received the arm and goes back to work, while investigated how he got the arm.

The investigation would lead to paranoia about secret societies and spies running the world, plus the confrontation with everyday criminals moves him to fight crime behind a mask.

I like it.

Maybe I'll look up some other Brit heros...

Thinking on this more, what British government would more use as his Nixon-like regime?

Thatcher I would think. Her closeness with Reagan helps with some of the evil right wing american evilness to rub off on her.