Best modern infantry rifle?

hipper

Banned
Well the OPs questions was

"If you could equip American forces (using our current mission requirements) what infantry rifle would you use?"

That's never going to be the AK47! Its not even going to be an AK74!

Modern M16 and Piston clones are as reliable if not more so than the Ak47 and the AK design has more ingress points than the AR design so while it is more forgiving of dirt it is also more likely to get dirt inside!

My problem with 6.8 is that it is intended to work on a AR15/M16 platform with a few modifications - build a new gun around the bullet For f***s Sake

Also its heavier than 5.56 and larger so less rounds can be carried

Currently the 5.56 is good enough - if and when LSAT / CTA ammo can reduce these true intermediate 6.5mm/6.8mm/7mm rounds to the same or less weight than 5.56 and battle sights improve to the point where the soldier can identify the target and shoot the weapon at or near the weapons ability then go for it.

More and more troops are being equiped with 7.62 to enable engagement at range, fighting in deserts means fighting at longer range, western armies are going to have to give soldiers a weapon that can be used at 1000 feet or more, 6.8 is the way to go.
 
I would stick with the AR platform with direct gas impingement easy to use an accurate. I would issue everbody two uppers, one 16" mid length upper and one full length rifle upper. Just stick which ever upper works best for the day on the lower.
 
More and more troops are being equiped with 7.62 to enable engagement at range, fighting in deserts means fighting at longer range, western armies are going to have to give soldiers a weapon that can be used at 1000 feet or more, 6.8 is the way to go.

6.8 is intended to give the AR15 platform and using proprietary equipment (ie Magazines) greater punch at similar ranges to 5.56 which is about 500 m (well beyond 1000 ft) - this it does but at a ammo weight premium and reduced magazine capacity with an increase in recoil and a slower MV (785 MPS vs 940 MPS).

And half the combats that western troops conducted in afghanistan/Iraq where in towns and villages - thats where people live! Thats where the insurgents blend in. Most people in the world live in urban areas - it would be folly to give soldiers a basic rifle that excels at long range but is rubbish at FISH (Fighting In Someones House) - and this was born out in both world wars and the countless 'bush wars' since.

Its the 10% of engagements that happen beyond 5.56 realistic effective range (not helped by the shortened M4 IMO) that has resulted in - initially - 7.62 GPMGs - and then more recently 7.62 DMRs being carried at Squad and even fireteam level to bridge this 10% gap. This is how the Western forces have ended up with a 'golf bag' of weapon systems in each squad/platoon.

The 6.5 Grendel type round is on the other hand intended to give the rifleman an 800m + effective range from the same 'sort' of rifle - although as I understand it the 'Grendel' rounds will not port to an AR15 Platform as the bullets are too long (more like 7.62 territory) - currently they are using what are effectively modern AR10s and 'stretched' AR15s to shoot Grendel.

However this is all for nothing if the rifleman cannot locate and then reliable shoot their target which was all too often the issue in Afghanistan (and a lesser and sometimes greater issue in the other wars) - and again we are in the situation where the current available weapons are good enough in the majority of the situations that they are used in and generally more accurate than can be reliable utilised anyway by the majority of soldiers.

Until the ammo is lightened, until the weapon firing the 'more effective bullet' is also lightened and can more effectively deal with the extra recoil a more powerful round imparts (all of this probably through the LSAT program), until the sight system can locate the enemy and allow the soldier to realistically engage them - then by giving soldiers 'more powerful guns/ammo combination' is simply imposing on them extra weight burden for a system that cannot be used any more effectively than the current stock of high end 5.56 or 5.45 assault rifles.
 
While I agree that sidearms are a little more likely to be used as a Bayonet is - the Bayonet is still carried - and if carrying a Pistol makes soldiers feel that little bit more confident about being on a 2 way firing range then Im all for it.

Bayonets have been used in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Bayonets have been used in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

So have pistols but how rare is that use - I get the whole 'mindset' of fixing bayonets etc - but having to turn the modern assault rifle into a short spear to stab some one - how often does that happen?

I doubt very much it is a deliberate act rather than one of necessity after the gun goes click in an assault!

Just to be clear I am not suggesting not carrying either weapon!
 
So have pistols but how rare is that use - I get the whole 'mindset' of fixing bayonets etc - but having to turn the modern assault rifle into a short spear to stab some one - how often does that happen?

I doubt very much it is a deliberate act rather than one of necessity after the gun goes click in an assault!

Just to be clear I am not suggesting not carrying either weapon!

Personally I think bayonets still have a useful operational use - they're good for controlling large crowds of civilians or PWs without the threat of firing your weapon as well as their continued utility in the assault.

Pistols are only really useful for protecting yourself from being killed or bummed by Afghan/Iraqi army and police while on a camp or as an absolute last ditch weapon (and they're not really much use at that because the majority of soldiers would be better off throwing the pistol at the enemy rather than wasting ammunition firing the thing).
 
A good infantry rifle for US Troops?

The M16 is a good option, If you keep the weapon very clean and maintain it good, it do it job without jamming.

Alternative ?
FN Herstal got factories in US, so why not FN FAL ?
Irony that rifle was as T48 under contender to replace the M14, that was won by ArmaLite AR-15 what became M16
Also FN FNC and FN SCAR are good Rifle for US military use

Next to that Heckler & Koch rifles like G3 or G38 despite it's overheat problems.
 
the overheating seems to be very specific problem, even though the german get rid of those, the finnish are happy with it.
 
the overheating seems to be very specific problem, even though the german get rid of those, the finnish are happy with it.
From what I've read, the Germans are literally the only ones thinking about replacing it and everyone else is happy with theirs, including people who use them in combat in the Middle East. It would appear it's some German political squabble or something of that sort.
 
So have pistols but how rare is that use - I get the whole 'mindset' of fixing bayonets etc - but having to turn the modern assault rifle into a short spear to stab some one - how often does that happen?

I doubt very much it is a deliberate act rather than one of necessity after the gun goes click in an assault!

Just to be clear I am not suggesting not carrying either weapon!
That's kind of not the point. A lot of the narrative fed to Terry Taliban and his ilk is that the westerners are effeminate and aren't willing to get up close and personal, so you can blat away at them with impunity and then run away when things get a bit hot. Fixing bayonets breaks this narrative down very effectively - if you've got a bayonet on the end of your rifle you're going to get very much up close and personal, and you're going to kill the enemy. Bayonet training is all about putting this mindset into your own troops - that you're going to get very, very close to the enemy and kill every last one of the barstewards. They are (and since the invention of the magazine rifle always have been) overwhelmingly a psychological rather than a physical weapon.
 
the overheating seems to be very specific problem, even though the german get rid of those, the finnish are happy with it.

For one thing, overheating is not expected to be a significant problem in the Finnish climate. For another, the G36 is only used by a relatively small number of police and border guard special forces here, so the expectations are different than for military front line use. The vast majority of the FDF will still use the domestic Rk family rifles, especially the recently "modernized" Rk 62M:

RK-62M.jpg
 

Saphroneth

Banned
That's kind of not the point. A lot of the narrative fed to Terry Taliban and his ilk is that the westerners are effeminate and aren't willing to get up close and personal, so you can blat away at them with impunity and then run away when things get a bit hot. Fixing bayonets breaks this narrative down very effectively - if you've got a bayonet on the end of your rifle you're going to get very much up close and personal, and you're going to kill the enemy. Bayonet training is all about putting this mindset into your own troops - that you're going to get very, very close to the enemy and kill every last one of the barstewards. They are (and since the invention of the magazine rifle always have been) overwhelmingly a psychological rather than a physical weapon.
FWIW, my understanding is that they've always been primarily a psychological weapon, even in the days of Brown Bess. (as per Forward Into Battle.)
 

CalBear

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Handguns don't really matter unless you are clearing a tunnel, but .45 is the way to go, 10mm as an alternate. You want to knock the target down. 9mm is great for commonality, and you can get a higher capacity mag in the same size pistol grip, but...

Rifles are a different matter. The 5.56 doesn't allow a trained shooter to take full advantage of the optics currently available on the M4/M-16. The 7.62 NATO round is too heavy for deep patrolling, the number of rounds do matter. Ideally the 6.8mm Remington SPC could be adopted while retaining the M4/M-16 platform which would eliminate the need to retrain the force.

The difficulty with changing rounds is that you also need to get NATO to change, along with the ROK, Japan, Australia, Israel, and all the other countries that the currently use the same 5.56 rounds. This is simply not going to happen, there is far too much invested in current ammo stocks (which, of course is why the M1 was chambered for .30-06 instead of the .276 Pederson back in the day).

That more or less forces the U.S. to stay with the 5.56mmx45. If the 5.56 has to stay then the current issue rifles are the best that can be managed.

A handgun is absolutely last resort in warfare and if you need to improve your abilities in conducting war I would recommend a lot of things above handgun firing. But anyway, each time you spend a box of 50 rounds it will weigh about as a bottle of water - and a lot of those are shipped. Anyway my impression is that a very large amount of the individual equipment used by soldiers on missions like Afghanistan or Iraq is purchased by the soldier himself. It is almost like in medieval times, when the knight was supposed to bring himself weapons, horse and armour - we just need the enturage of esquires. Under Danish law it would be extremely complicated to even own a handgun though, but I really don't see any particular logistic problem.

I do recall a few years ago a Danish officer in Afghanistan was punished for carrying privately purchased open nosed ammo (i.e. not full metal jacket, but "dum-dum") in his officially issued service handgun (I believe then a 9mm SIG-Sauer). The purpose of course was to ensure the optimal stopping power needed in exactly last resort defence, but such ammo is illegal according to international law and a moron journalist made a big deal about "Army uses illegal ammo!".
Well, hollow point rounds are an absolute violation of the 1899 Hague Convention, so the "moron journalist" was totally accurate.

Another argument for .45 or 10mm.
 
Handguns don't really matter unless you are clearing a tunnel, but .45 is the way to go, 10mm as an alternate. You want to knock the target down. 9mm is great for commonality, and you can get a higher capacity mag in the same size pistol grip, but...

Rifles are a different matter. The 5.56 doesn't allow a trained shooter to take full advantage of the optics currently available on the M4/M-16. The 7.62 NATO round is too heavy for deep patrolling, the number of rounds do matter. Ideally the 6.8mm Remington SPC could be adopted while retaining the M4/M-16 platform which would eliminate the need to retrain the force.

The difficulty with changing rounds is that you also need to get NATO to change, along with the ROK, Japan, Australia, Israel, and all the other countries that the currently use the same 5.56 rounds. This is simply not going to happen, there is far too much invested in current ammo stocks (which, of course is why the M1 was chambered for .30-06 instead of the .276 Pederson back in the day).

That more or less forces the U.S. to stay with the 5.56mmx45. If the 5.56 has to stay then the current issue rifles are the best that can be managed.


Well, hollow point rounds are an absolute violation of the 1899 Hague Convention, so the "moron journalist" was totally accurate.

Another argument for .45 or 10mm.
I think the US military should use both 9mm for the recoil sensitive and 45ACP for those who want too. We have the technology for 15 round 45ACP handguns now days I do not see the problem with using it. I get armies want to simplify but we are individuals and that is something that militaries need to understand. Especially for something that is used so rarely that it does not see use that often. We have a dozen different handguns we should only have two.
 
Frankly if you need 15 rounds in your handgun, something is very wrong. This is a last ditch close quarter weapon, the next step is your K-Bar. Having the proper round, like the .45 ACP which was chosen specifically for one shot stopping power, allows you to defend yourself at close quarters with 1-2 shots per enemy. If you can't hit somebody at realistic pistol ranges with 1-2 shots you are in trouble. If you have so many enemies that close you need 15 rounds in your magazine you are screwed because you can't get them all before they get to you. Changing a magazine does not take more than a few seconds. If you use 2 hands you should be able to handle a .45 or similar - if you can't even with 2 hand grip, I have doubts about your ability to do other functions of a grunt, or even a relatively front line support troop. If someone who can't handle a .45 really needs a close in personal weapon for last ditch situations, a 20 gauge shotgun with 20-24" barrel, pump with 5 rounds 00 buck works (think clerk, rear echelon medical etc). IMHO these days unless you are very far away indeed rear echelon does not have the same meaning as it used to in terms of need for a weapon AND THE ABILITY TO USE IT (meaning qualifications, how to maintain it, etc).
 
If someone who can't handle a .45 really needs a close in personal weapon for last ditch situations, a 20 gauge shotgun with 20-24" barrel, pump with 5 rounds 00 buck works (think clerk, rear echelon medical etc). IMHO these days unless you are very far away indeed rear echelon does not have the same meaning as it used to in terms of need for a weapon AND THE ABILITY TO USE IT (meaning qualifications, how to maintain it, etc).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun interesting read, seems that some shotgun ammo might be a violation of the Hague convention
Shotgun slugs are currently under consideration by the US military as an anti-materiel round; the tendency of typical commercial shotgun slugs to deform on impact would render them illegal under the Hague Convention of 1899
 
Shotguns have been used in the US military since WWI for sure. Currently the US military issues shotguns for defense in HQ type units - not the same as those issued for breaching actions.
 
Hi, all. I had an account here many years ago, but lost my password and got rid of the associated email account, so I've only lurked for about a decade. Frankly, I don't know enough history to contribute- at least to this board's standards, which seem pretty demanding. But on this topic I can, so I re-registered.

I'll get to other points later (this will be long-winded) but the OP asked:

If you could equip American forces (using our current mission requirements) what infantry rifle would you use?

First, the AK is not going to cut it. It's legendary reliability is overstated. It is woefully inaccurate. It is heavy. It is criminally unergonomic. It isn't a horrible choice for many militaries- it is cheap and available- but it is horrible for the US military, for the many reasons others have stated above.

[Anyone who spends any time immersed in "gun culture" will swiftly realize that there are immense amounts of fanboyism, hyperbole, posturing, and sheer rank idiocy involved. So be skeptical of anything you see on the interwebs about guns. Including this.]

Second, no Western nation will ever ever have a 7.62x51mm battle rifle again. The few that retain them will eventually replace them, and never have one again. Both the weapon and the ammunition are simply too heavy. Sticking to current real-world conditions, I agree with others, that sticking with the M16 family likely is the best option. But which one? Though it hasn't been in use long enough to be definitive, the HK416 is looking like it is going to prove to be an excellent weapon, and I think I would favor it.

The logistical argument is obvious- we already use M16s and are familiar with them. It's also possibly the most ergonomic combat rifle ever made. I see an awful lot of Britons, Germans, Danes, Norwegians, etc. all walking around with various models of M16 on my deployments- usually the special ops guys- despite having their own indigenous rifles available. Clearly, the merits of the M16 are recognized. And it really doesn't need significantly more TLC than any other Western rifle, all of which tend to be made to closer tolerances than the ubiquitous AK.

5.56mm has a great virtue in being light and light-recoiling, which makes it easy to carry a lot of it and simplifies training. It is far far better to miss a target 100 times while hitting it once with a 5.56mm, as opposed to missing it 40 times and hit it zero with a 7.62x51mm. If your answer to the hit ratios is "well, that's a training issue" I would respond "no, it's a reality issue." It is not realistic to expect to train every 18-year-old recruit who barely passed his ASVAB to special operations standards. Not to mention that there exists such a thing as suppressive fire and fire superiority, that it does matter, and that having more ammo helps achieve it. Further, though I am in the Army, I agree with the USMC's move back to a full 20-inch barrel as their standard. The most lethal 5.56mm we have ever had was the initial 55-grain projectile screaming out of a 20-inch barrel. It would reliably fragment and produce impressive wounding even at comparatively long ranges. Armor penetration suffered, but it was indeed lethal. The 14.5-inch barrel should really just be used as a PDW or something. Heck, a 10-inch barrel would work as a last-ditch PDW.

[On the other hand, the USMC is barking mad for eliminating the SAW gunner in favor of an "automatic rifleman." That has been tried many times before and has an unmitigated record of failure. But I guess there are just some lessons that we have to re-learn every now and again.]

Back on topic: Most of the complaints about lower wounding with the shorter 14.5-inch barrels is hyperbole... but some isn't. The issue M855 rounds only fragmented out to 100 yards or so out of the shorter barrel, and that unreliably. However, the new M855A1 round has largely fixed that and also has great penetration. In fact, some have called it semi-armor-piercing. Win, there.

The high (though pretty much unplanned) modularity of the M16 platform is another bonus. We could issue two uppers- one 14.5-inch and one 20-inch, to be used depending upon mission requirements. There does appear to be a need for longer engagement capabilities in some regions of the world where they come into play. A 20-inch barrel solves most of this. The rest could be solved with a third upper in something like the 6.5mm Grendel, if we really needed it in a battle rifle. That would require a lot more development before it could be issued, though, as all of those alternate AR calibers are still immature. (The 6.8SPC is a bit of a pointless dead end, now that we have the M855A1 rounds. It's external ballistics are actually quite pathetic, since it was designed for high energy delivery to short-ranged targets, whereas external ballistics was almost the entire design goal of the 6.5mm Grendel.)

Bullpups. I agree with others that though bullpups have their advantages- primarily being retaining long barrel lengths in a short overall weapon- they are probably overstated. If nothing else, firing around a corner in an urban scenario using your off-hand is very... uncomfortable. Specifically, the hot brass tries to implant in your face. Stepping out from behind cover to fire with your good hand is worse. The only work around for this is either caseless rounds or a complex forward ejection system. Or, of course, novel magazine mounting such as with the the P90 or the old G11, which are very awkward to reload quickly. Being able to reload any bullpup quickly takes a LOT of training, especially if you don't want to take it down off of your shoulder so that you can put your one chambered round into a Bad Guy who might suddenly appear. Clearly, many respectable militaries use them and like them, so I'm sure that they are a viable option. But if you want my opinion- and opinion it is- I would stick with a conventional layout. The options that give the M16 a challenge- again, IMHO- are other conventional-layout designs like the G36 or FN SCAR. The SCAR isn't proven enough to my liking yet, though. But it would certainly be ergonomically compatible with M16-trained troops, and I think it has potential.

OTOH if the OP meant to ask "What is is the bestest most awesomest Western battle rifle on an individual level as opposed to an issue level?" then that's a different conversation. But as asked the list of contenders has to include M16 (HK416), G36, and FN SCAR.

On to off-topic stuff that has come up...

The LSAT program. Current advances in small arms are largely material, not basic design. (Polymer chassis such as the G36 or FN SCAR come to mind.) It will be difficult to improve upon current designs, the M16 included. The LSAT program has some promise, though- I just don't think that future developments are what the OP had in mind. Personally I'm a 6.5mm fanboy, but I think sticking with something around 5.56mm is probably still the way to go for an issue battle rifle (unless they can get the weight of the 6.5mm down considerably). People like the 6.5mm because of it's awesome ballistic coefficient, as do I. But 6.5mm projectiles have that awesome BC solely for historical reasons! To whit: the projectiles are very long and heavy in proportion to their their caliber compared to most others. Since we're starting from scratch with the cased telescoping (or caseless) rounds of the LSAT program we should be redesigning the 5.56mm projectile to be much longer-for-it's-caliber, too. Then it would likely be capable of meeting the long-range engagement requirements by itself, with a similarly awesome BC. Back when the M16 first came out the long-range service rifle shooters all poo-pooed them... until they started winning all of service-rifle matches. The 5.56mm, properly loaded, has better external ballistics than any realistic 7.62mmx51 loads. Nowadays you never see anything but M16s (actually, ARs) in the service-rifle matches. For a reason. Terminal ballistics, yes, are not as good at extreme ranges. But a longer projectile (that would have a very rearward center of gravity and tumble easily) would fix that, too.

Handguns. Any time someone uses the term "stopping power" in relation to handguns and it isn't in scare quotes, you should probably ignore everything they say. (Yes I exaggerate for humor- I hope my point is understood, though.) Joules is not "stopping power." Muzzle energy is not "stopping power." The truth is, we have no idea what "stopping power" is. The only remotely scientific data anyone has ever gathered defined it as "the assailant ceasing aggressive action," which more often that not means a psychological affect, not a physiological one. So this is very hard to study. That data also shows that above a certain minimum (probably somewhere between .380ACP and 9mmP) that caliber doesn't matter. The only independent factor that matters is how many times you hit the guy. Handgun rounds are low-velocity, enough so that temporary cavities do not really come into play. (Unlike rifle rounds, generally. Don't get me started on Fackler.) So handguns all just poke holes in things, and the statistical difference between a 9mm hole and an 11.4mm hole is trivial. That wound channel has to intersect a vital structure. (And if you really want to get persnickety about caliber then two 9mm channels are superior to one 11.4mm channel.) I personally don't like 10mm rounds for logistical reasons. The .40S&W has proven to be overpowered for every platform we've tried to use it in, to the point of cracking slides over long use. Probably because most have been based on prior 9mm designs. A decent reliable gun could probably be built around it, but none has to date. (Though I admit I haven't paid attention for a few years, so I may be wrong.) Also, the entire thought process that lead to it was flawed- the FBI drew entirely the wrong conclusions from the Miami Shootout, as they themselves have recently tacitly admitted. Modern +P 9mm is at least equivalent to .40S&W.

Every other handgun stopping power study or metric has either been fatally flawed or obviously biased (usually by the .45ACP fanboys, of whom I am one, so that should tell you something).

So within those minimal limits an easily-controllable, more-easily trained, and higher-capacity caliber would be assumed to be superior. So we're talking about 9mmP or somesuch, here. Any of the current polymer "wondernines" would serve. Glocks are good, and widespread, so they have a logistical benefit. I personally am not a striker-fired guy, but I could learn. I like SIGs, and they would be a great choice if you don't like polymer wondernines. I love shooting my 1911, but proposing that a 100-year-old design would be a quality combat handgun by modern standards is madness. They are incredibly maintenance-intensive, low-capacity, and unreliable. Some groups like LAPD SWAT and USMC are trying to use them again as they re-learn whether or not there is really a benefit to .45. [As I said, some lessons just need to be re-learned.]

The Beretta M9 is a monstrosity. An exposed barrel (to both burn your hand and allow crud into the action) and a slide-mounted safety (that you can't reach)? What the hell were they thinking? A combat handgun shouldn't have a safety! In the unlikely event that you need a handgun then in all likelihood you will need it very badly, and very quickly. So no safety- at best a decocker on a double-action capable gun, or none at all like a Glock or the other striker-fired guns. I understand the US military's concern about not having a positive safety, but a decocked double-action would be very reasonable.

Similarly, don't listen to anyone who claims that shooting a human with a 12.7mm projectile is a violation of the Geneva Convention. That's a longstanding myth that Just Won't Die. Distressingly, it is even perpetuated within the US military by ignorant NCOs who read it on the internet once, or something. [If you are one of them, for the sake of your troops I urge you to request a Geneva Conventions briefing from JAG and ask them.] Many nations are using .50 caliber sniper rifles, for instance, and there are no Danish reporters having fits about it.

Whew! Sorry, that was a lot. In particular, I find myself dispelling "stopping power" fairly often. But I have to stop. I have a case starting. So I also haven't had a chance to do my usual re-editing to avoid ruffling feathers- I apologize if I offend anyone with my gruffness. People tend to get very prickly about this topic.
 
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A good infantry rifle for US Troops?

The M16 is a good option, If you keep the weapon very clean and maintain it good, it do it job without jamming.

Alternative ?
FN Herstal got factories in US, so why not FN FAL ?
Irony that rifle was as T48 under contender to replace the M14, that was won by ArmaLite AR-15 what became M16
Also FN FNC and FN SCAR are good Rifle for US military use

Next to that Heckler & Koch rifles like G3 or G38 despite it's overheat problems.

The G38 family is the HK416 family in German nomenclature. It has no problems with overheating that go beyond what any AR has after a certain point.

Even the G36's "problems" are trumped up and to an infuriating degree manufactured by the German MoD. Actually, the MoD's lawsuit against HK was just decided in favour of HK. To sum it up: "Delivered as ordered."
Interestingly, the lawsuit came at the end of the projected service life of the '36. AFAIK, there were no complaints about overheating from any other governmental G36 user. I think the German government was aiming for a rebate on the new AR (which will likely be a 416 variant) or some interested parties want to sink HK. If it is HK's competitors using intrigue or some fucking pacifists who'd like to torpedo Germany's arms exports or something else...I don't know. The matter is ridiculous enough as it is.
 
I'm currently pretty impressed by the progress of the LSAT with the 6.5mm bullet, it seem really perfect and polyvalent. Only thing that could bother me is shell life and vulnerability to athmospheric condition of the polymer.
But changing now would be opposed by a lot of NATO countries cause of money.

France will announce their new rifle at the end of the year either SCAR or HK416 in a modified form to allow rifle grenade firing and bayonet mounting. I personally think it is compulsory for a rifle, why ? cause why not? I give more capacities and don't need many change. Personally I'm sad the VHS-2 is out of the game, I like bulpup, it allow longer barrel in a shorter rifle, and when vehicle mounted, a shorter gun is very good, and if it have a 19'2 barrel it's even better.

For the handgun, I'm more and more aware of the .357 SIG and hear a lot about it on firing range, so we may see it appear on the battlefield for testing.
 
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