AHC/WI: Fourth Abrahamic Religion

[Zuvarq]

How could a fourth Abrahamic religion arise? And how far could it spread?

Also, is there any way to fit into into OTL historical events or series of events (OTL people starting the religion not required but possible)? Multiple slave rebellions had leaders who claimed to have been given messages from God (well, John Brown's and Nat Turner's rebellions at least). In addition, if a 'heresy' rises before or shortly after a huge cataclysmic event like a very fast epidemic or a huge earthquake, then it maybe able to establish itself as people are desperate (especially if the leader of the group predicts God's wrath shortly before the earthquake and people see it as a prophesy).

 

[Emperor Julian]

There are technically more than four Abrahamic religions, with things like Baha'i and Rastafarianism and others technically being Abrahamic. I assume you mean a fourth major religion though. Would you count Manichaeism as Abrahamic? (it includes Jesus and is monotheistic, among other similarities)? Because it is possible you could have the Uyghur Khanate's Manichaeism spread throughout Central Asia.

 

[Malta]

Baha'i possibly?

 

[invol]

I would have to say that Mormonism qualifies as the fourth Abrahamic religion. Look at their beliefs and organizational patterns. They are more than just a schism of Protestantism. Plus if Mitt Romney wins the USA presidency, it would lend more legitimacy to the faith.

 

[Zuvarq]

I meant a new one, even if those would count (I wouldn't say so about Mormonism though). Druze also doesn't count.

I would have to say that Mormonism qualifies as the fourth Abrahamic religion. Look at their beliefs and organizational patterns. They are more than just a schism of Protestantism. Plus if Mitt Romney wins the USA presidency, it would lend more legitimacy to the faith.

Mormons consider themselves Christians.


EDIT: Hypothetical scenario. Crazy dude in Lisbon predicts God's wrath shortly before the Lisbon earthquake. He describes that the earth will shatter apart and nonbelievers will be swallowed up. Meanwhile, he also predicts the event to the correct month or even week. Now this is fairly unlikely already, but is there any chance something like this would gain ground after the disaster occurs? Or are the conditions in 1750s Portugal not adequate?

 

[invol]

I meant a new one, even if those would count (I wouldn't say so about Mormonism though). Druze also doesn't count.

You are posting in before 1900 AH. Perhaps you are thinking of the future history board? And as far as a new major religion, it would take the fall of civilization to get that many manipulable people to follow a new religion. Other than fringes, I just don't see it happening in today's world any other way.

Mormons consider themselves Christians.

Sorry, I missed this bit. Their core beliefs of Jesus continuing his life in the Americas seems incompatible with the Christian belief. This maks me wonder... Did Islam consider itself an offshoot of Christianity in the early days? I know they also believe that Jesus was a past prophet, just not the last one.

 

[Zuvarq]

You are posting in before 1900 AH. Perhaps you are thinking of the future history board? And as far as a new major religion, it would take the fall of civilization to get that many manipulable people to follow a new religion. Other than fringes, I just don't see it happening in today's world any other way.

I meant before 1900, just not any 'OTL' 4th Abrahamic religions.

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

I'd say Baha'i is already the Fourth Abrahamic faith, it's just very small and often not brought up as a result. Ahmadiyya could technically be a separate faith, as they also aren't mainstream Islam.

 

[Armored Diplomacy]

There are technically more than four Abrahamic religions, with things like Baha'i and Rastafarianism and others technically being Abrahamic. I assume you mean a fourth major religion though. Would you count Manichaeism as Abrahamic? (it includes Jesus and is monotheistic, among other similarities)? Because it is possible you could have the Uyghur Khanate's Manichaeism spread throughout Central Asia.

On a side note, I wonder how it is that Judaism is considered a major religion when it is actually so small. There are only 13 million Jews in the world, a significant number of them Jews by ethnic identity only and not religious or converts to other religions.

But to OP's question, all you need to create a fourth Abrahamic religion is to have another Prophet-like figure like Jesus and Mohammed arise. He claims that Mohammed was intended to be the last prophet as the Koran said, but now that the people of earth are going astray, he has come to save them. Kinda like when Jesus claimed his faith to be the continuation of the Jewish religion, but does away with all the kosher laws, and when Mohammed contradicts Jesus by adding in new dietary laws.

Then add new laws and perhaps do away with the ones you don't like. If this prophet gains a significant number of followers determined to carry on the faith, underground if necessary, then it will rise.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Baha'i appeared too late to become a major religion, I can't see any POD capable of making it any larger than Judaism.

In addition to Mormonism and Ahmadiyya being parts of Christianity and Islam respectively (I have the position that whatever religion people consider themselves part of is the religion they are), they also have appeared far too recently to become much larger than they are.

I would say that the past 4-5 centuries are too late for any major new religion to arise unless there was some apocalyptic event, and you'll have to go back further to get a religion anywhere near the size of Christianity or Islam.

 

[invol]

I meant before 1900, just not any 'OTL' 4th Abrahamic religions.

Ah, gotcha. I'm not trying to be a prick, I apologize.

The Baha'i believe in a joining of all religions, not just Abrahamic beliefs. Would that even qualify? I'd love to see a Baha'i wank, but I don't think this is what you are looking for as well. Hmmm...

 

[Emperor Julian]

If you want a new religion to become big, you are going to need somewhere for it to dominate. I had suggested Central Asia, which didn't become solidly Muslim until post-Mongol invasions, or maybe even post-Timur. Having China become Abrahamic seems unlikely. Perhaps have Iran resist Islamic conquest, but have Zoroastrianism fall to some Christian/Islamic/Gnostic religion founded by a new prophet a couple generations later?

 

[Somes J]

Would a more successful Gnosticism or Catharism count?

 

[Roger II]

You are posting in before 1900 AH. Perhaps you are thinking of the future history board? And as far as a new major religion, it would take the fall of civilization to get that many manipulable people to follow a new religion. Other than fringes, I just don't see it happening in today's world any other way.


Sorry, I missed this bit. Their core beliefs of Jesus continuing his life in the Americas seems incompatible with the Christian belief. This maks me wonder... Did Islam consider itself an offshoot of Christianity in the early days? I know they also believe that Jesus was a past prophet, just not the last one.

Probably not, but it does seem to have been substantially influenced by Christian texts and certain aspects of the Qu'ran are sometimes compared to layman's monophysite theology taken to an extreme.

 

[willbell]

We had a thread recently exploring the idea of Islam jumping from Indonesia to Japan, that could result in the desired effect with an abrahamic religion with a japanese twist. I am not really good at Oriental history so I don't really understand the proposed PoD but you can find it if you're interested.

 

[Laplace's Demon]

After finding no joy in the churches of the Germans or among the Muslims of the Volga, instead of a festival at the Hagia Sofia during the Golden Age of Byzantium, some ATL event ruins the visit of Vladimir the Great's envoys or turns them back. As such, with no witnesses to joy among the Orthodox Church, Vladimir is unable to pick a monotheistic religion for the Kievan Rus to adopt. Having discussed with Jewish diplomats at length, but convinced by the destruction of Jerusalem that God disapproves of the specifics of their religion, he decides to create a new church; which then after claims to be the rediscovered "true religion" of the God of Abraham, and is in fact based on a syncretic understanding and misunderstandings by Vladimir and his court of the various monotheistic religions they have heard from.

 

[Flocculencio]

Baha'i appeared too late to become a major religion, I can't see any POD capable of making it any larger than Judaism.

It's got more than half the number of adherents of Judaism- approx 7 million Bahai as opposed to approx 11 millions Jews. Have it be a bit more successful, say, in India and you could well see it at least equalling Judaisim.

Of course this also depends on what you consider a major world religion- I certainly don't see Judaism as one. It's got far fewer adherents than Sikhism (approx 30 million) and just because Western civilisation has a whole lot of baggage tied up with Judaism doesn't make it a major religion.

 

[Emperor Julian]

It's got more than half the number of adherents of Judaism- approx 7 million Bahai as opposed to approx 11 millions Jews. Have it be a bit more successful, say, in India and you could well see it at least equalling Judaisim.

Of course this also depends on what you consider a major world religion- I certainly don't see Judaism as one. It's got far fewer adherents than Sikhism (approx 30 million) and just because Western civilisation has a whole lot of baggage tied up with Judaism doesn't make it a major religion.

I would define the major religions of the world as being Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism.

 

[Meerkat92]

We had a thread recently exploring the idea of Islam jumping from Indonesia to Japan, that could result in the desired effect with an abrahamic religion with a japanese twist. I am not really good at Oriental history so I don't really understand the proposed PoD but you can find it if you're interested.

But would that really catch on? Especially considering medieval Japan's political system was based on the idea that the Emperor was the descendant of a Shinto god...How much of that would be co-opted for the sake of political stability before it no longer becomes Abrahamic.

 

[eliphas8]

Bringing the Druze into their own as a more definitively seperate religion could mean they end up considered a "fourth" abrahamic religion (and give them more followers too).