AHC/WI: China discovers the Americas?

[SinghKing]

Actually not so much. Supply was circumscribed by geopolitical factors. The Europeans only had to cross the Atlantic,as well. A relative puddle in comparison to the Pacific.

The Chinese only had to cross the Bering Strait. A relatively puddle, in comparison to the vast stretch of ocean between Iceland and Greenland...

 

[Herzen's love-child]

The Chinese only had to cross the Bering Strait. A relatively puddle, in comparison to the vast stretch of ocean between Iceland and Greenland...

It would have been interesting if they had. They'd have to be invested in the fur trade, though, for impetus. Not much else to attract anyone there before near modern times. Incidentally, from the Celestial Kingdom to the straits is a fair distance. Getting to the good bits of North and Meso America even further. Question is, why didn't the Chinese pursue systematic voyages Eastwards?

 

[SinghKing]

It would have been interesting if they had. They'd have to be invested in the fur trade, though, for impetus. Not much else to attract anyone there before near modern times. Incidentally, from the Celestial Kingdom to the straits is a fair distance. Getting to the good bits of North and Meso America even further. Question is, why didn't the Chinese pursue systematic voyages Eastwards?

Actually, it's here, in Northern British Columbia and Southern Alaska, that the most abundant deposits of Nephrite (Imperial Chinese Jade) in the world can be found. And the Northwest Coast Peoples made heavy use of ornamental jade- if they happen across virtually any villages along the coast in this region (of which there were plenty), they'll see that the natives possess plenty of it. And if they bring back large amounts of jade, along with increasingly fantastical tales of just how abundant Jade appears to be in the Americas (since the natives in the first region they have to pass through on their way to explore the Americas will certainly give them that impression), it may give rise to a "City of Jade" myth for the Chinese, comparable to the Spanish legend of El Dorado.

 

[Namayan]

What would the impact of say, China 'discovering' the "New World" before the Europeans (Columbus)?

Only the Polynesians had the tech and skilled sailors to go Americas at that side of the world.

 

[SinghKing]

Only the Polynesians had the tech and skilled sailors to go Americas at that side of the world.

No. IOTL, only the Polynesians actually went ahead and did it. That doesn't mean that no-one else would have been capable of that feat.

 

[Namayan]

No. IOTL, only the Polynesians actually went ahead and did it. That doesn't mean that no-one else would have been capable of that feat.

Capable sailors requires knowledge of the pacific and its currents which the Chinese didnt have. Even Zheng He's fleet required Arab sailor knowledge of the currents.

In order for China to do this, they need to be a totally different society which requires them to be sea faring nation that frequents the Pacific ocean. But, by doing so, China wont be China.

 

[SinghKing]

Capable sailors requires knowledge of the pacific and its currents which the Chinese didnt have. Even Zheng He's fleet required Arab sailor knowledge of the currents.

In order for China to do this, they need to be a totally different society which requires them to be sea faring nation that frequents the Pacific ocean. But, by doing so, China wont be China.

Did the Europeans have prescient knowledge of the Atlantic and its currents when they went to the Americas? Did the Vikings? Somehow, I don't think so. And your assertion that 'China won't be China' if they did doesn't hold any water whatsoever. China was certainly a sea-faring nation, and their merchant vessels frequented the Pacific Ocean ALL THE TIME. And there were plenty of those Chinese merchants who made long voyages. From China, is it so much further to travel up to British Columbia, along the coastline all the way, than it was for them to travel over to Arabia and the Zanj Coast?

 

[Herzen's love-child]

Did the Europeans have prescient knowledge of the Atlantic and its currents when they went to the Americas? Did the Vikings? Somehow, I don't think so. And your assertion that 'China won't be China' if they did doesn't hold any water whatsoever. China was certainly a sea-faring nation, and their merchant vessels frequented the Pacific Ocean ALL THE TIME. And there were plenty of those Chinese merchants who made long voyages. From China, is it so much further to travel up to British Columbia, along the coastline all the way, than it was for them to travel over to Arabia and the Zanj Coast?

Both the Vikings and Iberians systematically did explore the currents and winds of the Atlantic and not so much as initially crossed the Atlantic in one go as leapfrogging their way across. Also, there was the very strong motivation to seek alternative trade routes to the East that were either monoplized by the Venetian-Mamelukes or largely blocked all together by Ottoman dominance.
The Chinese either were content or more self-sufficient in their trade concerns. Furthermore, they never seemed very interested in the Eastern Sea beyond the more immediate environs.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

(Cont.) If you can describe an analogous process and perceived need for the Chinese to venture across the Pacific as what brought the Europeans both around Africa and across the Atlantic, I'd be more convinced by your line of thought.

To be clear, the Chinese were more than technically capable of making across the Pacific.
It's more that they would need to systematically explore and lay out the infrastructure (bases, re-supply points, etc.) to support trans-Pacific exploration. Even more importantly, they would need the sufficient motivation to make the effort in the first place.

 

[Teshuvah]

When does this discovery occur?

It seems most likely during the Ming dynasty, but discovery of the Americas during the Tang or Northern and Southern Period might be far more interesting.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

When does this discovery occur?

It seems most likely during the Ming dynasty, but discovery of the Americas during the Tang or Northern and Southern Period might be far more interesting.

In terms of a enhanced naval presence and long term court support, the Song Dynasty may have been the most realistic period for China to venture East. More so than the Ming.

However, what I said earlier about laying the foundations for Trans-Pacific exploration and compelling reasons to do so in the first place, applies.

 

[Richard V]

The Bering Strait route might be possible if gold was discovered in Kamchatka, driving exploration of the area and beyond. Historically the indigenous people of this area were not plugged in to East Asian trade and no one paid the area any attention.

It would actually be pretty interesting if the indigenous people of the Russian Far East maintained contact with those in Alaska.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

The Bering Strait route might be possible if gold was discovered in Kamchatka, driving exploration of the area and beyond. Historically the indigenous people of this area were not plugged in to East Asian trade and no one paid the area any attention.

It would actually be pretty interesting if the indigenous people of the Russian Far East maintained contact with those in Alaska.

I believe that until Soviet times there was OTL continued cross-strait contact between the indigenous people on either side.