AHC: Revived Zoroastrian Medieval State

Onyx

Banned
This is necessary for my TL, Im trying to find any surviving Zoroastrian nobles around 1000 AD, the Challenge is to have the Zoroastrians defeat the Islamic Persians/Seljuk Turks in north-eastern Iran/Parthia and create a new Zoroastrian state

Is this possible? Can the Zoroastrians actually manage to rebel and succeed and create a new Parthian state?

Any info of any Zoroastrians around this time is very helpful
 

Falecius

Well, the Mazdaic faith was still alive, although probably in steep decline, by that point. After all, much of the manuscript tradition in Middle Persian we have dates from more or less this time AFAIK, and there must have been some organized body of transmitters of the corpus we have. I would bet, however, that a Zoroastrian community was nowhere near the shape to even TRY to defeat the Seljuks alone by that point unless it is a consequence of a much earlier POD. But if prior Islamic history goes on schedule, it's most likely too late by around 1000 AD.
A scenario (mind you, a very unlikely one) could be that for reason a strong Turkic group, maybe the Seljuks themselves, converts to Zoroastrianism instead of Islam for some unfathomable reason and reverts Mazdaic fortunes by conquest.
 

Onyx

Banned
Falecius said:
Well, the Mazdaic faith was still alive, although probably in steep decline, by that point. After all, much of the manuscript tradition in Middle Persian we have dates from more or less this time AFAIK, and there must have been some organized body of transmitters of the corpus we have. I would bet, however, that a Zoroastrian community was nowhere near the shape to even TRY to defeat the Seljuks alone by that point unless it is a consequence of a much earlier POD. But if prior Islamic history goes on schedule, it's most likely too late by around 1000 AD.
A scenario (mind you, a very unlikely one) could be that for reason a strong Turkic group, maybe the Seljuks themselves, converts to Zoroastrianism instead of Islam for some unfathomable reason and reverts Mazdaic fortunes by conquest.
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Well would a more feasible scenario be for the Zoroastrians not conquer the entire Seljuk Sultanate but merely have a Kingdom north of Perisa, in Kwarezmia?
 

Falecius

Onyx said:
Well would a more feasible scenario be for the Zoroastrians not conquer the entire Seljuk Sultanate but merely have a Kingdom north of Perisa, in Kwarezmia?
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Khwarezm by around 1000 was in the process of being Turkified and Islamicized quite thoroughly already.
I suppose that Khorasan or better yet Daylam are the areas where such a thing has less chance to be crushed utterly in short order.
 

Onyx

Banned
Elfwine said:
That would require going right up against the Seljuks, though.

http://www.turkishhan.org/history.htm

Not 100% sure of how reliable this is, but I know that the general direction of where the Seljuks went is.
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Would weakening the Seljuks work?

Khwarezm by around 1000 was in the process of being Turkified and Islamicized quite thoroughly already.
I suppose that Khorasan or better yet Daylam are the areas where such a thing has less chance to be crushed utterly in short order
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Im trying to figure out that area north of Persia, where the ancient Parthian Capital was, it probably has the best chance for Zoroastrians to survive
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
The Karen and the Bavand dynasties both held on to Zoroastrianism for quite long, while under Caliphate rule. The Karenas were even independent now and then.
 

Elfwine

Onyx said:
Would weakening the Seljuks work?
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How do you weaken them without it just meaning some other group of newly-Sunni Turks do what they did (at least in this area, which isn't particularly able to hold such a thing off)?
 

Malta

I tend to favor Tabaristan/Mazandaran/Daylam/Gillan for Zoroastrian Revival scenarios like in my TL.
 

Simreeve

What about somewhere further east than that, holding out against Islam in the mountainous territory that in OTL terms is Afghanistan & southern Turkestan?
 

birdboy2000

Banned
I think the Zoroastrians' best bet is to strike before the Seljuks come. In the chaotic situation where the caliphate lost power over Persia, which OTL led to the Samanids and Saffarids, Zoroastrian nobles would have a better chance of seizing power, and Persia would be less islamicized than it would later become.

And if they succeed, then even if the Turks (probably not under Seljuk, who was born after this PoD) invade from the north they have little incentive to adopt Islam - OTL it was Persian influence which converted them, so the *Seljuks would be more likely to adopt Zoroastrianism as the religion of most of their subjects.
 

Onyx

Banned
birdboy2000 said:
I think the Zoroastrians' best bet is to strike before the Seljuks come. In the chaotic situation where the caliphate lost power over Persia, which OTL led to the Samanids and Saffarids, Zoroastrian nobles would have a better chance of seizing power, and Persia would be less islamicized than it would later become.

And if they succeed, then even if the Turks (probably not under Seljuk, who was born after this PoD) invade from the north they have little incentive to adopt Islam - OTL it was Persian influence which converted them, so the *Seljuks would be more likely to adopt Zoroastrianism as the religion of most of their subjects.
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Im not referring to Persia
Im referring to having the Zoroastrians retreat up north of Persia where Kwarezmia/Merv/Khiva lie
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
birdboy2000 said:
I think the Zoroastrians' best bet is to strike before the Seljuks come. In the chaotic situation where the caliphate lost power over Persia, which OTL led to the Samanids and Saffarids, Zoroastrian nobles would have a better chance of seizing power, and Persia would be less islamicized than it would later become.

And if they succeed, then even if the Turks (probably not under Seljuk, who was born after this PoD) invade from the north they have little incentive to adopt Islam - OTL it was Persian influence which converted them, so the *Seljuks would be more likely to adopt Zoroastrianism as the religion of most of their subjects.
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Also, when the Seljuks came the Zoroastrian noble families were either extinct or had converted. It's simply too late.
 

Dfront21

Onyx said:
This is necessary for my TL, Im trying to find any surviving Zoroastrian nobles around 1000 AD, the Challenge is to have the Zoroastrians defeat the Islamic Persians/Seljuk Turks in north-eastern Iran/Parthia and create a new Zoroastrian state

Is this possible? Can the Zoroastrians actually manage to rebel and succeed and create a new Parthian state?

Any info of any Zoroastrians around this time is very helpful
Click to expand...

What do you mean by Zoroastrian? As there were several different sects in Persia and Central Asia. If you're ok with a syncrestistic form, then your last change will be the Khoramdin movement in Azerbaijan. But that was about a hundred years before your timeline.
 
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