AHC: Popular Neopaganism

[pa_dutch]

With a POD after 1650 CE, create a world in which neopaganism or, at least, practices explicitly acknowledged as pagan in origin, is widespread in the Western World. Bonus points if such neopaganism becomes the majority religion in most Western countries.

I'm thinking the Romantic era could give rise to the embrace of neopaganism as a popular phenomenon among upper classes, especially as nationalists, artists, composers, writers, and foklorists such as the Grimm Brothers sought out pagan ideas as "authentic" representations of their national culture. From there, it could trickle down to the masses, perhaps with elite "missionaries" encouraging rural peasants to "awaken" to their pagan roots (as Romantic intellectuals often sought to find pagan survivals out of rural traditions). Ideally, there are various forms of neopaganism, for example, Southern Europe embracing Greco-Roman gods while Northern Europe opts for Germanic ideas, Eastern Europe revives the Slavic pantheon, and so on. Neopaganism could go hand in hand with nationalism, and perhaps each country has its own religion and set of dieties.

Bonus points if some Western societies don't embrace neopaganism, instead remaining Christian or further embracing reason and skepticism, thus creating international ideological rifts (perhaps Neopagan Europe and Christian North America coexisting).

 

[pa_dutch]

No takers? Imagine the interactions between neopagan European colonialists and non-Western societies, assuming colonialism on a large scale still even takes place. As such neopaganism would likely be non-evangelistic and very much tied to ethnicity or nationality, apologists for colonialism would have to use different reasons to justify the conquest of non-Western peoples than religion. Romantic neopagans, much like OTL Romantics but on a larger scale, might view the animism, shamanism, polytheism, and other nature-venerating or ancestor-revering folk religions of Asia, Africa, and Oceania as sources of inspiration, having maintained their own "pagan" or "heathen" beliefs without interruption.

 

[GeographyDude]

So, paganism in Wales, for example, continuing to the present day? Okay. Now, one thing, non-elites don't like being viewed as museum pieces or noble savages or anything of that sort. I'm reminded of the long documentary A Kalahari Family with the nonprofit having the idea of ecotourism but the actual Kalahari people wanting to be farmers. But let's say this gets sorted out.

I can see things evolving where many of the people had BOTH Christian and Pagan beliefs and considered themselves to be BOTH. Church authorities might not like this, but this might be widespread enough that they learn to accept it. And Christianity itself would have much more of a regional flavor.

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Suppose we go at it the other way around - that is, a reform movement in the christian churches successfully identify ALL pagan stuff in western christianity, and then tries to abolish such things. This attempt malfires and instead gives rise to a defined 'pagan' church where the christian peculiarities are tuned down.

In the romantic period around 1800, antique stuff became popular in many places, and there were the early linguistic advancements with Europeans encountering ancient Egyptian and Indic texts.

Perhaps there is a need for Freemasons and Swedenborgians and similar of some kind to be involved in this movement.

 

[ramones1986]

I'm really thinking of Iceland

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I'm really thinking of Iceland

Iceland?
That thoroughly Lutheran and god-fearing country?
Why, no one in Iceland would ever consider elves real for instance. They'd never build elf-houses in their gardens; have a taboo against throwing stones, which could hit an elf; or cause road construction to stop because of elves. No, never.

 

[GeographyDude]

Iceland's another good possibility. And people elsewhere may adopt some of the Icelandic beliefs and/or be more curious and open to their own pagan past.

I'm still thinking paganism survives along with a more mellow and tolerant church. Similar to the scenario laid out by the OP, primarily Christian in some countries and primarily pagan in others.

 

[pa_dutch]

So, paganism in Wales, for example, continuing to the present day? Okay. Now, one thing, non-elites don't like being viewed as museum pieces or noble savages or anything of that sort. I'm reminded of the long documentary A Kalahari Family with the nonprofit having the idea of ecotourism but the actual Kalahari people wanting to be farmers. But let's say this gets sorted out.

I can see things evolving where many of the people had BOTH Christian and Pagan beliefs and considered themselves to be BOTH. Church authorities might not like this, but this might be widespread enough that they learn to accept it. And Christianity itself would have much more of a regional flavor.

I'm not suggesting any sort of continuity, as nearly every part of Europe has been thoroughly Christianized by this point. Rather, I'm suggesting a massive ideological shift, not unlike the Reformation, the Great Awakening, or the rise of Deism, Unitarianism, and then atheism in post-Enlightenment Europe (or atheism in communist Europe), that turns Westerners to reflect on their pagan heritage, embrace pagan survivals, revive dead pagan traditions, and reject the label and dogma of Christianity. Something like Wicca but less emphasis on magic and witchcraft but with more of a nationalistic flair that successfully catches the attention of elites.

The Grimm brothers had a keen interest in assessing rural folklore, household customs, and local toponyms for evidence of pre-Christian Germanic paganism and from this evidence helped to build the cause of German nationalism. Their work collecting fairytales inspired intellectuals in other European countries to do the same in preserving rural culture for the sake of national identity. Suppose the Grimms took things a step further and used the pagan survivals they encovered to shape their own cosmological beliefs and perhaps begin a movement toward revived, explicitly pagan practice.

 

[The Vet]

Something like the Cult Of The Supreme Being in revolutionary France?

 

[Monte-Cristo]

A synergy of romanticism with emerging nationalism? Thus, a syncretism of a 'Walter Scott' vision of 'traditional' Catholicism (with the biological triad Father - Mother - Son, not that dissimilar to the Osiris - Isis - Horus one, and most popular prayers addressed to benevolent Mary, at the head of a [quasi]pantheon of saints) with 'Indo-european '('rediscovered') pagan roots? Would not be much more strange than the origins and syncretism of Caodaism, for instance.
Seemingly once isolated among Muslims the Ossetians forgot most of their Christianism and turned to a form of neopaganism, raising Christian saints to divine status (the reversal of Brigidh - Brigitte, Mictecacihuatl - Santa Muerte...). A different process of course of a 'deliberate' one in 19th C. Europe, but could lead to not very dissimilar results. Maybe with the Christian Father - Mother - Son as '1st generation' deities, with the male members 'far away' and Mary actively worshipped as a kind of Mother Goddess or Triple Goddess (the Virgin, the 'Sovereign of the underworld moors' (Valfreyja fashion) as Villon called her [1], the Mother) [2] and specialized 'pagan' gods and goddesses {perhaps called 'spirits' to keep an appearance of monotheism: astronomy already allowed to distinguish between a 'creator of the entire universe' and 'patron spirits' limited to Earth} - some of them ex-saints, some 'ressurected' pagan ones - as 'nephews and nieces' (Walt Disney Donald / Daisy / Huey, Dewey and Louie fashion: no obvious sexual relationship)?

1: Santa Muerte is not far away, but add a special attention to those killed in action?
2: Alternatively give Mary two hypostases, Mary (Joan) [of Arc!] for the warrior aspect and Mary [Magdalena] for the '3rd function'; then have (avatars / partial incarnations of) the 3 Maries reaching Europe at the Saintes Maries de la Mer

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

All these seem like interesting ideas.

 

[pa_dutch]

A synergy of romanticism with emerging nationalism? Thus, a syncretism of a 'Walter Scott' vision of 'traditional' Catholicism (with the biological triad Father - Mother - Son, not that dissimilar to the Osiris - Isis - Horus one, and most popular prayers addressed to benevolent Mary, at the head of a [quasi]pantheon of saints) with 'Indo-european '('rediscovered') pagan roots? Would not be much more strange than the origins and syncretism of Caodaism, for instance.
Seemingly once isolated among Muslims the Ossetians forgot most of their Christianism and turned to a form of neopaganism, raising Christian saints to divine status (the reversal of Brigidh - Brigitte, Mictecacihuatl - Santa Muerte...). A different process of course of a 'deliberate' one in 19th C. Europe, but could lead to not very dissimilar results. Maybe with the Christian Father - Mother - Son as '1st generation' deities, with the male members 'far away' and Mary actively worshipped as a kind of Mother Goddess or Triple Goddess (the Virgin, the 'Sovereign of the underworld moors' (Valfreyja fashion) as Villon called her [1], the Mother) [2] and specialized 'pagan' gods and goddesses {perhaps called 'spirits' to keep an appearance of monotheism: astronomy already allowed to distinguish between a 'creator of the entire universe' and 'patron spirits' limited to Earth} - some of them ex-saints, some 'ressurected' pagan ones - as 'nephews and nieces' (Walt Disney Donald / Daisy / Huey, Dewey and Louie fashion: no obvious sexual relationship)?

1: Santa Muerte is not far away, but add a special attention to those killed in action?
2: Alternatively give Mary two hypostases, Mary (Joan) [of Arc!] for the warrior aspect and Mary [Magdalena] for the '3rd function'; then have (avatars / partial incarnations of) the 3 Maries reaching Europe at the Saintes Maries de la Mer

Interesting idea, but a bit too close to Christian roots rather than pre-Christian ones for the sake of my original idea. My idea is, for example, the Irish "taking back" Brigidh and stripping away her Saint Brigette shell. Italians converting miniature shrines to the infant Jesus and other Christian figures to the larariums which first inspired them.

 

[Dieu Le Roi]

Maybe a strongly Catholic England could associate Chritianity with oppression in the eyes of the Irish, with paganism becoming popular again thanks to the efforts of Irish romantics who associate it with a free Ireland. The equivalent of the old IRA (and later on Fianna Fáil) is a predominantly pagan organisation that strongly imbues the new state with pagan symbolism. Before long, Ireland is a majority pagan state, albeit not to the same extend Catholicism predominated in OTL, with a large Catholic minority.

 

['Ezana]

You could have neopaganism evolve similar to how Voudou evolved in Haiti; seemingly monotheistic and thus avoiding the wrath of monotheistic elites, yet truly more complicated. In Voudou there is the concept of "Bondye" as the supreme deity (from the French phrase Bon Dieu), but he is considered to distant to contact, so Voudou practitioners instead contact intermediate deities such as Baron Samedi or Papa Legba.

This would make neopaganism significantly more attractive to the more religious lower classes. A little nationalist flavor could join neopaganism with the identification of local saints and even local pre-Christian deities as intermediate gods.

From there, it would not be hard to have neopaganism take a much more anti-Christian stance in response to the persecution that would follow its rise. Such a stance would involve throwing out the idea of a distant and supreme god, "reclaiming" the local saints as pagan saints, and encouraging even more pre-Christian revival.

 

[Fox Eating Bamboo]

A lot of people are pointing to the Nineteenth Century - and romanticism in Europe pretty much coincided with the rise of nationalism. A popularly resurgent neopaganism would definitely be tied into various national cults and propaganda. Not Ezana's "a little nationalist flavor" but a LOT of nationalist flavor seems likely to me.

Also, to make such a strongly Christian continent as 19th Century Europe turn from Christianity on any level greater than just some of the academics would require some sort of massive upheaval. It won't be pretty.

OTL, the closest thing to a neopagan European country we have is Nazi Germany. This doesn't necessarily mean neopaganism is teh evil, but it would definitely be strongly tied into - and to some extent, hijacked by - nationalism.

 

[Brady Kj]

While it would be interesting to have revivals of traditional Germanic, Celtic, and Slavic beliefs, I think the most likely form of Neopaganism to go mainstream would have been the Roman beliefs. During the Rennaissance and enlightenment, the Roman Empire and Republic were held in extremely high regard. Elites were obsessed with it.
I can imagine an influential writer who's skilled at oratory and rhetoric and has a poetic flare could convince several eccentrics to worship Roman gods, or perhaps Greek ones if that's their fancy. If some of these people are important statesmen of their countries, they could get their beliefs tolerated, though with some controversy. After the Roman religion takes hold, perhaps some people would dig up their own countries' religions, partly out of spite for this Roman nonsense.


Also, the Neopagan beliefs may be more common in women than in men, just as modern Neopagan beliefs. It's likely that this happens because in polytheistic religions female gods exist, while Christianity only has a male one. I've read that the Catholic Church started emphasizing the Virgin Mary because it was having difficulty with converting women.

 

[Monte-Cristo]

The Goddess Reason was of 'Roman' inspiration but references to Ancient Greece and Rome are of 'elitist' nature, I can't see them as the basis of a popular cult (except in Greece and Italy respectively, maybe? But even so... Italy and Greece are specially 'devout Christian' countries).

With a POD as late as the 17th C. I fail to see how neopaganism could become popular, i.e. widespread, if totally rejecting Christianism. The (excellent) exemple of Voodoo with the Christian god remembered as a distant & practically ignored "Bondye" is more likely. The cult of Mary could provide a good starting point for a syncretic neopaganism.



Are modern Neopagan beliefs really more common in women than in men? It's certainly the case of gentle and apolitical Wicca, but 'Germanic' neopaganism, while having a few female voices, is basically 'manly' and aggressive (translation); the same seemingly for Slavic neopaganism. Now it can be argued that these 'neopaganisms' are not religions at all but provocative marks of 'cultural identity' - a kind of 'skinhead folklore', unlikely to become widespread.

Then a common point to all modern neopaganisms, 'authentic' or mere 'folkloric imagery', is the 'ecolo' attitude. Thus Naturalistic Pantheism ('sexed up atheism' according to Dawkins ) with 'deities' as 'icons' / meditation foci rather than 'real' entities for many believers, not explicitely 'anti-Christian', is probably the less unlikely popular, widespread neopaganism. Secular rituals of 'civil religion' are not that different from 'traditional', possibly neopagan rituals: to dance around bonfires is not basically different from watching fireworks before dancing on national day, to tie ribbons on bushes is not basically different from laying wreaths on war memorials on nov. 11th, &c... : neopaganism of Naturalistic Pantheism nature can be practiced with all levels of 'faith', from agnosticism to devout worship of Elves and Huldre. Thus a revival of 'traditional feasts' associated with agriculture and seasonality - favored anyway by emergent regionalism and the seach for 'roots' in a globalized world - while not neopagan by itself could contribute to popularize neopaganism.

 

[BBadolato]

The Goddess Reason was of 'Roman' inspiration but references to Ancient Greece and Rome are of 'elitist' nature, I can't see them as the basis of a popular cult (except in Greece and Italy respectively, maybe? But even so... Italy and Greece are specially 'devout Christian' countries).

With a POD as late as the 17th C. I fail to see how neopaganism could become popular, i.e. widespread, if totally rejecting Christianism. The (excellent) exemple of Voodoo with the Christian god remembered as a distant & practically ignored "Bondye" is more likely. The cult of Mary could provide a good starting point for a syncretic neopaganism.

I doubt you could have popular paganism unless it gets mixed with nationalist sentiment. Perhaps maybe a radical appeal to "the Old Ways" with some changes.

 

[Monte-Cristo]

"I doubt you could have popular paganism unless it gets mixed with nationalist sentiment. Perhaps maybe a radical appeal to "the Old Ways" with some changes." Probably (though Wicca appears to be devoided of any nationalist or racist connotation), but doesn't have to be fanatical to Nazi level. And it would probably be more of a 'cultural nationalism' (except maybe in Greece or Ossetia?) than a 'patriotic' (country related) one: panceltism, pangermanism, panslavism... [though the temptation of an 'ethnic' definition is obviously strong] as answers to 'uprooting' by globalization. Maybe even a 'paneuropeanism' with 'cultural' celtic, germanic, slavic 'churches': real pagans readily accepted that their neighbors worshipped the same deities under another name; the neopagan 'wheel of the year' combines the 4 'celtic' "cross quarter days" with the 4 "quarter days" -solstices and equinoxes- felt more 'universal', even 'germanic' because of Yule, and is reflected in the 8 'legs' of the slavic Słoneczko / Kolovrat. Massive immigration of people of a 'foreign' religion (Muslims in Europe) can greatly favor such 'back to our roots' trend.

 

[Baconheimer]

Perhaps a stronger Pan-Celtic Anti-English nationalism and Pan-German nationalism revive old holidays and other religious bits, even referencing the old gods. Maybe no Pope in Rome means Ireland has no strong religious leader, so the Celtic gods are seen as a way of evading the English oppressors. Over 150 years, these groups revive worship of those gods.