Apologies for posting here with a request for information.
I'm trying to find a set of production numbers, and all my usual sources are failing me.
Hopefully someone her can help.
I'm looking for aircraft production by factory by month for the UK, for 37 to 45.
Or any part thereof.
Dominions & empire would be a bonus.
I have total numbers by type by month, and can deduce some stuff from that.
But it doesn't quite get me to where I want to go.
As a bonus, if anyone has what was planned for castle bromwich in 39-40, as opposed to (or as well as) what was actually built, that would also help.
Or even when production was supposed to start, rather than actual start.

Having waded through dozens of websites, each copying the same stuff, word for word, I'm at my wits end.
So, sorry for asking, but does anyone have this?
 
12.09 The Trials and tribulations of producing the right aircraft
12.09 The Trials and tribulations of producing the right aircraft

Bristol Aircraft’s resistance to the fitting of another manufactures engine to their aircraft had caused real problems within the RAF and the Air Ministry. At one time during the height of the Taurus engines debacle the government had seriously considered nationalising the company and sacking the entire boards of directors. The companies obstruction of the fitting of another companies engines eventually resulted in the simple expedient of cancelling the Beaufort and increasing orders for the Beaufighter. Whilst all this was going on the Australian Government had already bought a licence for both the Beaufort and the Taurus engine. When the Australian government looked at the problems with the Taurus their experts ventured the opinion that a sleeve valve engine would not be the best choice for a domestically produced engine. An engine using conventional valves would be within the experience of the existing aeronautical and internal combustion engine industry in Australia. After due consideration the choice had come down to either the Alvis Pelades engine or the Pratt and Whitney Twin Wasp. With the British Government offering financial aid for the building of a factory to build the Alvis engine the choice was made in the favour of that engine. The subsequent success of the Australian Beaufort with the Alvis engine would do much to show how self serving the position of the Bristol Directors had been in their objection to and obstruction of the use of the Alvis engine in the UK.

Despite all the problems the first Australian built Beaufort had flown in May 1940 and series production of the first batch was preceding to schedule with some two hundred aircraft on order. Testing by RAF pilots had resulted in August 1940 of renewed attempts by the AM and the MAP to revive production of the Beaufort in the UK. After due consideration and the adverse effect on Beaufighter production assessed ,it was not considered worth the slightly better performance of the Alvis engine version of the Beaufort over the similar engine version of the Hadley Page Hampton. Also the potential of the Beaufighter as a cannon armed, rocket/bomb/ or torpedo carrying maritime strike fighter was now being recognised, so by late November nineteen forty all efforts by the MAP were in the case of the Bristol Aircraft Company focused on maximising the production of the Beaufighter in all it’s variants and ensuring that the supply of Bristol built engines was sufficient to meet the current and future airframe construction schedules. With increasing production of the Beaufighter and the commencement of serial production of the Hadley Page Halifax the requirement for Hercules engines was set to rise steeply through nineteen forty one.

To mitigate engine shortages due to enemy action or production problems it was current AM requirements that as many aircraft types as possible were fitted and test flown with at least one alternative engine. Hence Wellingtons being fitted with inline Merlins as replacements for the radial as was the Armstrong Whitworth Whitley. The Hercules engine Beaufighter was also built using Merlin engines and had been test flown with the Alvis pelides. Whereas the Halifax with Hercules could also be built to use either the pelides or tha Merlin as an alternative.

The Pelides with a swept volume equivalent to the Hercules was producing comparable power despite the use of conventional valves. The Alcadies with a swept volume only a litre greater than the Centaurus was as this stage of development matching it for power, both engines currently peaking at around one hundred and ten horse power per cylinder for a gross output of just under two thousand horse power. However Bristols were developing a new head for the engine which they claimed would enable a considerable increase in the engines power.

With the Avro Manchester there was a problem that in Mid 1040 there was no other production engine then available in the two thousand horsepower class. Both Bristol and Alvis were developing suitably powerful radial engines but neither were yet ready for entry into service. Therefore the option to develop a four engine version of the Manchester, originally designated Manchester III, was being pursued.

Four Manchester fuselages had been removed from the production line to provide the basis for the Manchester III, the first protype number BT 308 was built with a new wing spanning one hundred and two feet, as opposed the the Manchester II’s wingspan of ninety feet (increased from the eighty two feet of the original prototypes), for speed of production the original triple tail fin and twenty foot tail plane span was retained. The following three prototype aircraft had the modified Manchester Mark II tail plane of longer span with the two larger endplate fins. Commenced on the the same day the second aircraft to be modified, numbered BT 812, known as the Manchester Mk II L.W. (long wing) was built as a proof of concept by adapting the new one hundred and two foot wingspan to take the two Monarch engines of the Manchester II. The reason behind this development was that since the first Manchester Mark I’s had flown the Monarch had gained twenty percent more power and that was seen to produce a somewhat over powered airframe for the weight and wing area. So it was that the two prototypes were constructed side by side and actually test flown on the same day in January 1941

Both aircraft were sent to the Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscombe Down for trials and assessment. The Manchester II.LW with four thousand eight hundred installed horse power from it’s twin Monarch engines showed distinct advantages of the standard aircraft. Meanwhile the four engine version now christened Lancaster with four merlin mark X engines providing a total of four thousand five hundred and eighty horsepower. As a result of these early trials the third protype number DG 595 as the first production standard Lancaster was fitted with four Merlin XX type engines giving a total of five thousand one hundred and twenty horsepower. Ernest Hives at Rolls Royce had promised that by the time the Lancaster could enter service Rolls Royce would have a mark of Merlin capable of providing at least one thousand five hundred horse power.

All of these development were to give the RAF, AM, and the MAP much food for thought. The success of the Lancaster prototype and the probability that it’s production version would have greater development potential than the Manchester had raised some real problems for all concerned, the Manchester MkII was only now entering squadron service in numbers and to change production now and lose a considerable number of airframes was not viable. Whilst The operational advantages of the Manchester Mk III would be more easily obtained with less disruption and in the eyes of the bureaucrats at the MAP would with the same basic wing structure as the Lancaster provide a viable stepping stone to Lancaster production if that was required. With production jigs being prepared at Armstrong Whitworth time was of the essence and a decision to commence production of the Manchester MkIII needed to be taken quickly.
 
King Harold Harefoot died in March 1040. With the new King Harthacnut needing to intimidate his new vassals into going along with the more autocratic rule he was used to as King of Denmark, an upgrade in engine power seemed like a good investment at the time?
 
Peerless HMG
This is *very* difficult. It is difficult enough to eliminate the peerage. Eliminating the peerage while the government continuing to be H* Majesty’s is a step yet more difficult. Best I can imagine is the parliamentary Labour Party upping its game regarding ministerial and pseudo ministerial positions even while not ejecting Lords etc.

Training, education, infrastructure and increasing productivity and competitiveness (production and product development say) are all good investments that pay out over the long term irrespective of economic shocks.
Only in certain circumstances. I’ll give you that this is a thread in high fordism, but financialisation (“neo liberalism”) changes things. Look at public/private partnership infrastructure spends: the profit needs to be actualised in *near term* time. Correspondingly with states near the “high debt” limit imposed by banks (Lang, Whitlam, etc).

Things do work differently for states. But unless the state has an independent capacity to print money (Weimar, UK, US) then it won’t be able to control its internal spending (Chile, Australia, New Zealand).
 
This is *very* difficult. It is difficult enough to eliminate the peerage. Eliminating the peerage while the government continuing to be H* Majesty’s is a step yet more difficult. Best I can imagine is the parliamentary Labour Party upping its game regarding ministerial and pseudo ministerial positions even while not ejecting Lords etc.
Not sure what you mean. Peerless means unequalled or unrivalled.
HMG is short for His Majesty's Government (or currently Her Majesty's Government). It is the government lead by the Prime Minister, with the Cabinet etc., (normally) drawn from the largest political party in the House of Commons. The leader of that party is invited by the monarch to form a government which is then known as HM Government. Some of the Cabinet can be/are members of the House of Lords. When there isn't a party with an overall majority in the House of Commons, then it may be a coalition government. In wartime a government of National Unity.
Getting rid of the upper chamber, the House of Lords, wouldn't make any fundamental difference to Her Majesty's Government, which is a role of the lower chamber.
Allan
 
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Peerless HMG sounds like another time line, any takers?
A Government that always acts in what is actually the best interest of the country without thought to personal gain of its M.P's, political dogma or their chances at winning the next local government or General Election. Even A.S.B's won't touch that one.
 
"Peerless" could also literally mean "without peers" aka having abolished the House of Lords.

I think theoretically a Peerless HMG would have to just avoid all the unforced blundering of the period and work from there, rather than getting too overambitious.
 
I’m sorry Allan I thought I was playing into your original pun, “peer of the realm: a member of the class of peers who has the right to sit in the House of Lords.”

only recently has the convention that the PM be from the commons. Ministers were commonly from the Lords. Government is normally considered the ministries rather than the majority. And government in the house is normally the ministers responsible to the house (and HMG on advice of the leader of the house.)

Getting rid of the peerage through catastrophe is easier than ensuring His or Her Majesty still has a government, but that their Government is free of peers.

I anticipated you’d enjoy the pun, or play on words. I’m sorry that I didn’t telegraph the joke sufficiently.

Sam.
 
A Government that always acts in what is actually the best interest of the country without thought to personal gain of its M.P's, political dogma or their chances at winning the next local government or General Election. Even A.S.B's won't touch that one.
ASB's know when they are trying to do the impossible
 
I’m sorry Allan I thought I was playing into your original pun, “peer of the realm: a member of the class of peers who has the right to sit in the House of Lords.”

only recently has the convention that the PM be from the commons. Ministers were commonly from the Lords. Government is normally considered the ministries rather than the majority. And government in the house is normally the ministers responsible to the house (and HMG on advice of the leader of the house.)

Getting rid of the peerage through catastrophe is easier than ensuring His or Her Majesty still has a government, but that their Government is free of peers.

I anticipated you’d enjoy the pun, or play on words. I’m sorry that I didn’t telegraph the joke sufficiently.

Sam.
Honestly I thought it was your usual usual left wing republican approach and took it with the humor intended.


Personally I imagined the "perfect" version of "peerless" as George sacking everybody and running the whole show himself with excessive head kicking. I can see the movie now.
 
Personally I imagined the "perfect" version of "peerless" as George sacking everybody and running the whole show himself with excessive head kicking. I can see the movie now.
I believe this board did such in Agent Lavender in effect, though there Louis Mountbatten ensured HRH’s integrity with the public by acting as a cut out and by taking personal responsibility.

He even ensured responsible government eventually resulted while using reserve powers that had been used in the island of Ireland or British India during c20. I suspect George is more the fellow who would prefer to leave the mess to the servants.

But the core difficulty is that wholesale system change is more credible than such a “minor” change that goes to the way the system currently works.

In comparison it’s easier to change the Air ministry than to get a manufacturer to abandon a valve choice. Or to write a masterful time line than to get the board to abandon food distractions.
 
Mind you with this thread story approaching the quarter of a million words and only 122 pages in over two and half years, there has not been that much discussion of food, or any over distractions!
 
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