AHC: Make Escort Carriers Prevalent Among Developing Nations During The Cold War.

Cryhavoc101

Peg Leg Pom said:
Argentina, Chile, South Africa, Malaysia?
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Indonesia?

Pakistan - if only to 'match' the Indian Navy?

Argentina did have a Colossus class in service (2 in fact - Independencia - In service 1959 Decommed 1970 and Veinticinco de Mayo in service 1969 Decommed effectively by 1990 but officially 1997)

Would they need a Sea Control Ship?
 

jlckansas

Indonesia needs, like I said earlier, LPD or LPH's for their uses they have enough airfields on land for aircraft but need to be able to put troops ashore and protect the oil fields. Sea Control ships might make sense for somone from Eastern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula to patrol the Red Sea and off the coast of Somalia. Even then they might need some amphibious ships to be able to put troops on shore to take care of the pirates bases.
 

StevoJH

Sasza said:
Maybe escort carriers for Romania and Poland with Yak-38s for domination of the Black and Baltic seas.
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Is there anywhere in the Baltic or Black Seas that are out of reach from Land Based Aircraft?

That sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
 

sparky42

StevoJH said:
Is there anywhere in the Baltic or Black Seas that are out of reach from Land Based Aircraft?

That sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
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Given the limitations of an escort carrier, it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen against land based airpower.
 

StevoJH

sparky42 said:
Given the limitations of an escort carrier, it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen against land based airpower.
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I still think something along the lines of a diesel powered Invincible class sans Ski-Jump makes the most sense. Fill it up with a combination of Lynx and Sea King.

But that is hardly an escort carrier.
 

sparky42

StevoJH said:
I still think something along the lines of a diesel powered Invincible class sans Ski-Jump makes the most sense. Fill it up with a combination of Lynx and Sea King.

But that is hardly an escort carrier.
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I mean as a large Anti submarine platform in open waters I agree, in constrained areas with lots of air power around like the Baltic or Black Sea, surely its just a really giant target?
 

Sasza

What I'm talking about is the need to support the Polish and Soviet naval brigades landing in Denmark and Sweden.
 

sparky42

Sasza said:
What I'm talking about is the need to support the Polish and Soviet naval brigades landing in Denmark and Sweden.
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Sure, but that doesn't really change the issue that any "escort carrier" has limitations (as pointed out here) that means anything really post WW2 means that such a ship is going to be a major target for anti ship strikes without adding much capability for such an invasion.
 

Fred the Great

Escort carriers were, generally, about the threat of submarines. So a ship carrying ASW helicopters in meaningful numbers* would surely fit the bill?

* Assuming two sorties a day per aircraft, five is enough to have one on station at all times, but six or more would be better.
 

Sasza

These ships operate as part of the fleet and can still be supported by Soviet and Polish air forces from land bases. So after the MiG-25 and MiG-23 (assuming a scenario for the 1970s). Over time, following the example of INS Vikramaditya, the ships could be rebuilt to operate with the Yak-141 and Mig-29. For example, units 1143 could have been built differently without heavy armament.
 

sparky42

Sasza said:
These ships operate as part of the fleet and can still be supported by Soviet and Polish air forces from land bases. So after the MiG-25 and MiG-23 (assuming a scenario for the 1970s). Over time, following the example of INS Vikramaditya, the ships could be rebuilt to operate with the Yak-141 and Mig-29. For example, units 1143 could have been built differently without heavy armament.
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That is a 45k ton carrier, a hell of a different beast to an “escort carrier”
 

marcinL

StevoJH said:
Is there anywhere in the Baltic or Black Seas that are out of reach from Land Based Aircraft?

That sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
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No, especially when you can launch planes from East Germany in case of Baltic, and Bulagaria, Crimea nad Georgia in case of Black Sea. Buying couple dozen more planes instead or gaining aerial refueling capability would make more sense
 

Insane Ranter

GuildedAgeNostalgia said:
Propeller aircraft can launch off of escort carriers.
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What about drones? There was development in the 1940s into the 1950s and till today with those that could drop torpedo's and bombs.
Even someone like a zany dictator could boast that their country "Has the means to drive off those Western Imperialist from our shores now!!! With their new carriers!!!!'
 

StevoJH

I lurk therefore I am said:
So, basically the last HMS Ocean (now in the Brazilian navy) then
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Nope, Ocean wasn't built to military standards, was slow and had very limited defensive armament.

I'm literally suggesting an Invincible Class analogue powered by Diesel engines and optimised for rotary wing operations. A true through deck aviation oriented cruiser.

Basically I want to eliminate the requirement for the huge air intakes required for gas turbines. Saying that, the Invincible class as built would probably be sufficient, though I'd probably still remove the ski-jump. Fixed wing aircraft are expensive and unnecessary in *most* scenario's.
 
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Cryhavoc101

StevoJH said:
Is there anywhere in the Baltic or Black Seas that are out of reach from Land Based Aircraft?

That sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
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When I was thinking about the OPs question those are the 2 things I kept circling back too and my list of potential nations rapidly dwindled
 

StevoJH

Cryhavoc101 said:
When I was thinking about the OPs question those are the 2 things I kept circling back too and my list of potential nations rapidly dwindled
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Yep.

Even when you get at the scale of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (for example) where the US had 5 aircraft carriers present.

Iraq is not exactly out of range from Land-based air. Actions like the Falklands are the exception rather then the rule.
 
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