AHC: Largest Possible Biblical Canon

[Pesterfield]

Jesus not being considered divine would need to be edited out, but could the quran get added once it's written?
The Book of Mormon is also a possibility, but that's so far in the future it might not exist.

Basically all Abrahamic religions get put together in one book.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Does anyone know why Apocalypse of John was preferred to the other apocalypses? And where did the Christians get the idea that they needed an apocalyptic book at all?

From what I remember, the Apocalypse of John was heavily questioned and included in the list of "maybe" books. It was eventually included due to its popularity.

As to why apocalypses were 'needed.' Christianity developed out of the Jewish apocalypsism ofthst time. Leaving aside whether Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet or not (member of the Jesus Seminar say 'no', other scholars say 'yes'), many of his followers came from other apocalyptic groups or were steeped in the mood of the times, so it's no surprise that apocalyptic works would become popular.

 

[spendabuck]

There was a thread about this earlier, but could The Divine Comedy be considered canon and added to the Bible (after some revision of course; primarily removing the Popes Dante puts in hell)?

 

[Just a Rube]

Note that the Ethiopian Church has a much broader canon than basically anyone else (non-LDS, anyway); a situation where they become more significant (maybe Rome stays pagan/falls to Islam combined with an Axum-wank) would see that seen as the standard.

More generally; adding works past 400 AD or so is difficult, because by that time large numbers of bibles are being produced, the lectionary is being standardized, etc. Going back and changing things requires a significant overhaul that the Church really isn't placed to do. All of the current books were believed to be written by early followers of Jesus (either disciples like Matthew, Peter or John, or early converts like Paul, Luke or Mark). The later you go, the harder it is to pass off a newly-"discovered" writing as coming from the Apostolic Age; it's not hard to pass off the Pastoral Letters as coming from Paul in the 2nd century, as there was plenty of fragmentation within the Christian Church, and things were in flux. Claiming to have found a "new" Pauline letter in 350 AD, after the conversion of Constantine and the general moves towards a formal hierarchy would be basically impossible,

And while popular devotional/mystic literature was all the rage throughout the Middle Ages and well into the Early Modern period, no one would consider adding it to the Biblical canon (without forming their own church, a la Joseph Smith and various less famous individuals).

 

[Sabot Cat]

It could become tradition for the Church to include the documents produced at the various Ecumenical Councils to become a part of the Biblical canon, and/or important texts from the Pope or other Church ecclesiastical structures and authorities.

 

[water123]

I know that at one point there were two Apocalypse books: John and Peter. Peter was almost put in, and in fact isn't truly unorthodox, but was eventually rejected.

(Plus the authorship of the Apoc. of John is still a matter of massive debate)

 

[JonasResende]

The Gospel of Peter, AFAIK, is the only book (canonical or non-canonical) that actually describes the Resurrection, since it talks of the Cross exiting the tomb behind a gigantic-sized Jesus Christ, and thundering "have you told the world yet of what has happened?". All the canonical gospels simply skip the actual event or what is seen by those that have gone to the Tomb, the women being told by an angel, St Mary Magdalene and the noli mi tangere episode, or the summoning of St Peter to the tomb.

 

[JonasResende]

8 But the scribes and Pharisees and elders being gathered together one with another, when they heard that all the people murmured and beat their breasts saying, If by his death these most mighty signs have come to pass, see how righteous he is, −the elders were afraid and came to Pilate beseeching him and saying,

Give us soldiers, that we may guard his sepulchre for three days, lest his disciples come and steal him away, and the people suppose that he is risen from the dead and do us evil.

And Pilate gave them Petronius the centurion with soldiers to guard the tomb.

And with them came elders and scribes to the sepulchre, and having rolled a great stone together with the centurion and the soldiers, they all together who were there set it at the door of the sepulchre; and they affixed seven seals, and they pitched a tent there and guarded it.

And early in the morning as the Sabbath was drawing on, there came a multitude from Jerusalem and the region round about, that they might see the sepulchre that was sealed.


9 And in the night in which the Lord's day was drawing on, as the soldiers kept guard two by two in a watch, there was a great voice in the heaven; and they saw the heavens opened, and two men descend from thence with great light and approach the tomb. And that stone which was put at the door rolled of itself and made way in part; and the tomb was opened, and both the young men entered in.


10 When therefore those soldiers saw it, they awakened the centurion and the elders; for they too were hard by keeping guard.

And as they declared what things they had seen, again they see three men come forth from the tomb, and two of them supporting one, and a cross following them: and of the two the head reached unto the heaven, but the head of him who was lead by them overpassed the heavens. And they heard a voice from the heavens, saying, Hast Thou preached to them that sleep?

And a response was heard from the cross, Yea.


11 They therefore considered one with another whether to go away and shew these things to Pilate.

And while they yet thought thereon, the heavens again are seen to open, and a certain man to descend and enter into the sepulchre.

When the centurion and they that were with him saw these things, they hastened in the night to Pilate, leaving the tomb which they were watching, and declared all things which they had seen, being greatly distressed and saying, Truly he was the Son of God. Pilate answered and said, I am pure from the blood of the Son of God: but it was ye who determined this. Then they all drew near and besought him and entreated him to command the centurion and the soldiers to say nothing of the things which they had seen:

For it is better, say they, for us to be guilty of the greatest sin before God, and not to fall into the hands of the people of the Jews and to be stoned.

Pilate therefore commanded the centurion and the soldiers to say nothing.

From the Gospel of Peter, and how it differs significantly from any of the canonical gospels. Since Pilate plays a role in the pharisaical decision. But also, it speaks of the "multitude" from Jerusalem that were present on the morning of the Resurrection. Could be kinda problematic to explain why this was hushed up.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread:

What might be made of the fact in Christianity that St. Paul isn't really the sole voice of much of the New Testament (with the exception of the Gospels, Acts and the really short books at the end of the NT)? St. Augustine based much of his theology on his interpretation of St. Paul, for instance, and St. Augustine is considered as one of the most influential Church Fathers.

 

[JonasResende]

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread:

What might be made of the fact in Christianity that St. Paul isn't really the sole voice of much of the New Testament (with the exception of the Gospels, Acts and the really short books at the end of the NT)? St. Augustine based much of his theology on his interpretation of St. Paul, for instance, and St. Augustine is considered as one of the most influential Church Fathers.

Augustine's influence is broken! Maybe Ambrose or hell, even Pelagius or one of the others takes his place. Will make for fun times for the Christianity to follow, I'm sure...

 

[Mongo]

Augustine's influence is broken! Maybe Ambrose or hell, even Pelagius or one of the others takes his place. Will make for fun times for the Christianity to follow, I'm sure...

Maybe early thinkers like Origen and Clement of Alexandria retain their influence and are not sidelined. Their theology was rather different from what became orthodox belief, such as Universalism (the belief that there is no permanent suffering in Hell, everybody is eventually saved, even the worst sinners). Clement also advocated the full equality of the sexes.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Who came up with the awesome doctrine of (double-)predestination? Cause the Council of Orange declared it heresy, and yet it emerged quite strongly in Calvinism? Would an alt-canon mean that this doesn't happen? Or that whoever reasoned it out is more stringently punished?