AHC: Balkanize France Post-1800

[MartinLuther2012]

New guy here, probably seeming like an elephant in a china store, but:
I see no way of this happening, short of as part of another "Verseilles treaty" following a Central Powers victory in WW1 so decisive that it's beyond comprehension. Even then, I'm not certain that Britain and the US are going to accept it, so it would really have to be a CP curbstomp in order for this to happen.......IMHO

 

[Zuvarq]

Occitania is basically made-up. Aquitaine is possible but only as an artificial state created by foreign intervention.

 

[De la Tour]

After Napoleon, the British crown reaffirms its claim to France. Normandy becomes part of Britain. Basque separatists make a Pyrrenean state. Burgundy undergoes a nationalist revolution, giving a four-state France, sort of. It's a horrible way of going about it, but the best I could do.

 

[Matteo]

That will be quite problematic since there are russian, austrian and prussian armies occupying France after Waterloo.

Britain didn't decide alone since there was a coalition and since the goal on which the coalition had agreed was to reestablish balance on the continent.

A possible way could be to have France attacked by structured states/governments the same way as Germany was at the end of WW2. Imagine a structured spanish government, much more than it was in 1808-1814, allied to a unified italian government which would become enemy of France, besides of the UK, Prussia, Russia and Austria.

But the question remains the same : who would have interest to it ? I can't figure out.

Everybody had an interest in weakening too strong a France. Nobody had interest in creating vacuum in the geographical area which is France.

And you should also take into account the strength of the national feeling. Historically, France was, with England, the first nation-state. In 1792-1795, France faced such a coalition of almost all Europe and, though struggling in anarchy and civil war, it succeded defeating and disbanding this coalition.

 

[Ze Kaiser]

Decades of Darkness

POD: Thomas Jefferson has a heart attack in 1809, leaving James Madison to deal with the New England separatist movement. Naturally, he fails spectacularly, and the butterflies lead to a world where Germany has a very good 19th century. The end result is France getting smashed repeatedly until it finally breaks in 1936 under Germany's iron heel.

 

[wolf_brother]

DoD was fairly ASB. There, I said it.

 

[Elfwine]

DoD was fairly ASB. There, I said it.

What about it? As in, what about it was ASB?

 

[wolf_brother]

What about it? As in, what about it was ASB?

The massive evil US stretching across North America all the way to the Guiana Shield.

For a start.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

The massive evil US stretching across North America all the way to the Guiana Shield.

For a start.

And that's ASB, why? Not terribly likely, perhaps, but the TL develops with internal consistency. Not at all ASB.

 

[Elfwine]

And that's ASB, why? Not terribly likely, perhaps, but the TL develops with internal consistency. Not at all ASB.

I could write a story in which the Byzantines are given M-16s by time traveling alt-history nerds, and make it internally consistent - and it would still be ASB.

ASB is not the same as badly written in the sense of not holding together as a story.

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Wonderful map!

Now, back to the question...

Firstly, I would like to say that it's very, very, very, very, very difficult to make it plausible.
It is, however, a cool idea!

I don't have the time now - probably tomorrow I will - to make a timeline, but I did make a map for this and a thread as well: "Alternate France!".

This is the map:
(Keep in mind that it's in the same alternate time period as my "Federation of the Low Countries", which has some French states included...)
(Yes, from an historical point of view, Occitania is terribly implausible to be a country to be formed -nevertheless, it's cool and culturally plausible, I think.)

 

[Xgentis]

The balance of power would be out of the window...
I don't think it is likely to have France being balkanized after 1800.

 

[Elfwine]

The balance of power would be out of the window...
I don't think it is likely to have France being balkanized after 1800.

Not when several powers, while not wanting an overly strong France, would like France able to check other rivals.

 

[funnyhat]

Remember when the French radicals attempted to march on Savoy in 1848 they were turned back by the Italian nationalists there. Savoy was Italian, Nice was French.

Savoy was ruled by the House of Piedmont-Sardinia for a long time and may have felt politically loyal to it, but it was not very Italian in cultural terms. Its main spoken language pre-1860 was Franco-Provençal and its main written language was French.

Nice was more ambiguous. Its main spoken language at the time was Nissart, a transitional Occitan dialect that displays some Italian influence, while its written languages were either French or Italian - it was a classic border city.