A Jewish Homeland in East Africa

bookmark95

Banned
I wonder if there is a growing African population in Portugal itself. Could educated Africans exploit ties between their nations and Portugal to immigrate to the metropole itself?
 

Mightyboosh5

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether this alternate reality is preferable to our reality, there is only really two areas with major differences and that is with jewish people and with africa.

The bulk of the holocaust has been avoided and the jewish world population is larger, however anti semnitism is going to be much larger especially in the west.

In africa there is more development with more investment development and technological advancement due to millions more educated people to develop the economies. However racism against africans in these states in africa will be far larger than in OTL and the pro alcora pact dictatorships are more brutal and violent than in OTL.

So is this timeline objectively better or worse than our timeline?
 

Panica

9/11

9/11 funny thing is that I would not like to be Taliban or AQ.
Rhodesia it seems is still alive and could provide counter insurgency experience on demand. There know how is alive and well..
 
fluttersky

fluttersky

Viriato said:
Kenya and the Arab World
One major difference between Kenya and Israel was that Israel maintained diplomatic relations with the Arab world. Many Kenyan Jews rejected Zionism and the establishment of a largely secular Jewish State in Israel before the coming of the Messiah as affront to God. Arab leaders for their part often proposed the resettling of Jews from Palestine in Kenya, as a solution to the Palestinian question. For that reason, Arab states, particularly conservative ones were cautious to criticize Kenya's policies regarding its Indigenous African population, at least during the 1950s. Even Egypt's Colonel Nasser tempered criticism of Kenya's African policies at the Bandung Conference in 1955.
Click to expand...

The highlighted statement seems contradictory to the rest of this update. Did you mean to write that Kenya maintained diplomatic relations with the Arab world?
 

bookmark95

Banned
Mightyboosh5 said:
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether this alternate reality is preferable to our reality, there is only really two areas with major differences and that is with jewish people and with africa.

The bulk of the holocaust has been avoided and the jewish world population is larger, however anti semnitism is going to be much larger especially in the west.

In africa there is more development with more investment development and technological advancement due to millions more educated people to develop the economies. However racism against africans in these states in africa will be far larger than in OTL and the pro alcora pact dictatorships are more brutal and violent than in OTL.

So is this timeline objectively better or worse than our timeline?
Click to expand...

That largely depends on who you are. If you're Jewish, it is a fantasy story.

If you're an Afrikaner or a Rhodesian, you live like a king.

But if you're an African, you have neither civil rights, nor the ability to profit from a nation's mineral wealth.
 
fluttersky

fluttersky

bookmark95 said:
That largely depends on who you are. If you're Jewish, it is a fantasy story.

If you're an Afrikaner or a Rhodesian, you live like a king.

But if you're an African, you have neither civil rights, nor the ability to profit from a nation's mineral wealth.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite that simple. TTL's Black Africans have the disadvantage that they are in many places still controlled by a white elite; on the other hand TTL's Africa has received a lot more development and industrialization.

I think it really depends on what part of Africa we're talking about. The place where black Africans probably have the highest standard of living is Gabon, which is being integrated into France like OTL's French Guiana was, which means a massive amount of wealth flowing from Metropolitan France to Gabon.

Places like Uganda, Malawi, Tanzania will also be doing pretty well relative to OTL: they have achieved full independence and majority rule, and have the advantage of having a rich industrialized state on their border (Kenya) to trade with.

Black Kenyans, Angolans, and Mozambicans are probably doing a bit worse than in OTL. Their countries will be richer overall, but the wealth will take a long time to flow down from the (usually white) elites.On the other hand, at least TTL Angola didn't have to endure a 20 year civil war.

Black Rhodesians are probably doing better than OTL's Zimbabweans, but that says more about Mugabe's catastrophic leadership than the merits of TTL's white minority control.

Black South Africans have the worst circumstances. In OTL, Apartheid ended, but in TTL, it hasn't :/

So, yeah, some things in TTL are better for Black Africans, and other things are worse.
 

thekingsguard

It's one of the things I like about TTL - that what we get IS a mixed bag, rather than explicitly better or worse.

Somehow, I missed that Gabon is being integrated into France. Was there a post about that?
 

thekingsguard

Huh. How'd i miss that? Be cool to have an update on them.

also, if France and Spain kept some bits of Africa, how did Portugal of all places fall to incorperate Angola and Mozambique into their country as a proper part of the whole?
 
fluttersky

fluttersky

thekingsguard said:
Huh. How'd i miss that? Be cool to have an update on them.

also, if France and Spain kept some bits of Africa, how did Portugal of all places fall to incorperate Angola and Mozambique into their country as a proper part of the whole?
Click to expand...

Don't know, but I suspect it's because Angola and Mozambique are a lot bigger. Gabon and Spanish Guinea are small, and can be incorporated into their respective countries easily enough. Just apply French law to Gabon, give everyone there French citizenship, begin development of the region, and that's about all there is to it. The local Black African leaders in Gabon supported this. I get the impression that Cabo Verde and São Tome and Principe were incorporated into Portugal in a similar manner, but can't remember if this was explicitly stated.

Now, the situation in Mozambique and Angola is very different. There's an existing, fairly large, white settler culture in those places, so you can't just put some loyal local black person into power and call them the governor of Portuguese Africa.

Mozambique and Angola are much bigger; bigger than Portugal itself. If Portugal granted citizenship to everyone living in Angola and Mozambique, there would be a flood of millions of poor, mostly black, people to mainland Portugal; I highly doubt that Portugal wants something like this to happen.

That's not to say that the incorporation of Angola and Mozambique into Portugal is impossible, but it can't really be compared with the incorporation of Gabon into France. Two different situations. It's probably easier for Portugal to just let their major colonies free.
 

bookmark95

Banned
It's been a while since this was updated, and since that time, I took a sociology class where I learned about Filipino migrant workers, and how their remittances make up huge part of the Filipino economy. Enough Filipinos live in the Middle East that they make up the vast majority of the labor force

Could Mozambique and South Africa be another major destination for Filipino migrants, who would love a chance to drive down labor prices?
 
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