thesandman said:
I have two questions for anyone who feels they can answer:
1. What would be required to have both Canada and the British West Indies (including Florida in this instance) either rebel alongside the 13 colonies or be ceded to them post-war?
2. What would be some long-term effects of American control over those territories?
I can see a more successful US taking Canada perhaps, or being handed it at the peace. Think this was something that was actually suggested to appease the rebels. However less likely to see the US getting their hands on the British WI. Those islands were some of the richest territories in the world so Britain would be unwilling to hand them over. Also the rebels had very little naval power and I doubt if the French would go that far in trying to support them. Furthermore it might not be too popular with some of the southern states as the islands would compete with some of their products.
In the event of the US absorbing all settled English speaking N America this would have considerably increased both their power and probably the ideas that developed into the manifest destiny theme. The remaining Indian states would be even more totally isolated so not even the minimal support they got during the 1812 conflict. Therefore they will probably be conquered and driven off their lands even earlier.
With the Canada's included you might see an even clearer northern supremacy and possibly earlier pressure against slavery - although this would be countered a little if the WI islands were somehow transferred. The conquest of the rest of N America and the clash with Mexico might be speeded up because of greater resources or delayed because settling the Canadian lands take longer. However the US state will generally be stronger and its reach will probably be longer and used earlier. The attempts to establish control over parts of central America might be pushed further and more successfully.
There is one possible exception. The plight of the people of Quebec might cause tension with France if they are forced into a union. This could set up an interesting 2nd conflict with France seeking to restore its position, especially if they have regained Louisiana and are concerned about US expansion towards it. Britain might sit back and allow their opponents to get stuck into a war in North America itself.
Presuming this doesn't happen there are a number of other questions. What happens to the hard line loyalists, who in OTL moved to Canada. [Settlement in southern Africa anyone
]. Ditto with later British emigration. If there is still tension between Britain and America it could be directed elsewhere. Could be Australia, a stronger, earlier British settlement in Africa or possibly the S American plains - or some combination.
Of course if an exhausted France still collapses into rebellion and Britain is too greatly weakened another potential might be a successful Napoleonic victory in Europe and France having a prolonged period of domination over most of Europe. You might see British refugees - plus anyone else who could reach but might be very awkward for others - fleeing to the US. About 1820 then perhaps the French empire seeks to crush the last outpost of liberty in the western world. Could be a long and bloody conflict.
There is another potential pitfal. Elements of the US population has an almost messianic believe in their superiority over all other people and cultures. With such an overwhelming success in the revolution and no check in 1812 this could be dramatically increased. You could see a Draka like culture arising under those circumstances.
If the US avoids those fates it will be even more powerful and probably reach at least to the Panama isthmus. This could prompt some unification of Europe to pose a counter to that and/or a Russian superpower.
Steve