1920 - The fall of Warsaw
- Thread starter historyfool
- Start date
Not quite satisfied with this scene yet. Maybe I should add a scene with Werdings own reaction as he gets the orders. I think he is going to be the most interesting and difficult character to write. At the moment he is the typical German nationalist for his time with all the vices: Anti-democratic, embittered about Versailles, dislikes pretty much anything non-German. But due to his sense of practiality and his honor as an officer he does the right things for the wrong reasons.
September 2nd 1920, Upper Silesia
“You´ve got to be kidding.”
Disgusted Berger spit onto the ground. The other men looked no happier. Truth to be told Werding felt the same. Just a few days ago Poles had tried to kill them and they had killed Poles. Bastards had deserved it too! And now they were ordered to build and guard a camp for Polish refugees. Of course his men did not take that well. There were times where even an officer should explain the orders to the men. If only to avoid incidents down the road. He seated himself on a barrel waiting to be loaded and gestured his men to gather around. Crossing his arms he leaned back and started with a calm voice.
“You don´t have to like it. But there are good reasons for this. Think about the practical side first. We have a damn long border to Poland. There is no way we can control all of it, especially here where there is no major natural border. With the Soviets coming – and what we hear they are not exactly nice fellows -” that made some of the men smile grimly, who had been in the civil war with him, “hundreds of refugees will cross that border. What do you think will happen if we let them run around, cold, homeless and starving as they are?”
By now some men from other units had been drawn around them. Brandt as usual had kept to the back, but now took the cigarette from his mouth.
“They will start taking what they need. And the natives will start to hunt them down.”
“And what is so bad about dead poles?”
The question from a man from another platoon produced some laughter.
Another man added to it. “If you ask me we should help hunting them down.”
That got a growl of approval. None of them was here because he liked Poles after all. But Berger started to shake his head.
“Won´t work. There will be armed men, military units even among the groups coming our way. That would be a major insurrection on our hands. We could beat it sure. But the damn Soviets are directly behind and they and our native Commies would really like us to be distracted by such trouble while they butt-fuck us.”
Werding noticed a shift in the mood. Many of the men were looking thoughtful now. Time to land the other punch.
“Exactly. That is the reason why it is necessary to do so. But it also has advantages.” The puzzled looks on the faces of his audience made him bark a short laugh. “Just think about it. This abnormality called Poland was a product of Versailles. If we were to persecute the Poles they would certainly condemn us. By helping we instead take their responsibility. We shame them and get a lever to help us. Or at least to ease their pressure to enable us to help. If we do it right we can get the Polish influence in say France to work for our rearmament. Isn´t that the ultimate joke.”
Now the men were grinning as well and worked with more motivation when Werding sent them back to loading the trucks. He did not actually think that Polish influence was anywhere high enough to be of much help, but it was important to distract the men from seeing Poles as enemy. And perhaps they really were what he had told his men: A useful tool for the fatherland.
September 2nd 1920, Upper Silesia
“You´ve got to be kidding.”
Disgusted Berger spit onto the ground. The other men looked no happier. Truth to be told Werding felt the same. Just a few days ago Poles had tried to kill them and they had killed Poles. Bastards had deserved it too! And now they were ordered to build and guard a camp for Polish refugees. Of course his men did not take that well. There were times where even an officer should explain the orders to the men. If only to avoid incidents down the road. He seated himself on a barrel waiting to be loaded and gestured his men to gather around. Crossing his arms he leaned back and started with a calm voice.
“You don´t have to like it. But there are good reasons for this. Think about the practical side first. We have a damn long border to Poland. There is no way we can control all of it, especially here where there is no major natural border. With the Soviets coming – and what we hear they are not exactly nice fellows -” that made some of the men smile grimly, who had been in the civil war with him, “hundreds of refugees will cross that border. What do you think will happen if we let them run around, cold, homeless and starving as they are?”
By now some men from other units had been drawn around them. Brandt as usual had kept to the back, but now took the cigarette from his mouth.
“They will start taking what they need. And the natives will start to hunt them down.”
“And what is so bad about dead poles?”
The question from a man from another platoon produced some laughter.
Another man added to it. “If you ask me we should help hunting them down.”
That got a growl of approval. None of them was here because he liked Poles after all. But Berger started to shake his head.
“Won´t work. There will be armed men, military units even among the groups coming our way. That would be a major insurrection on our hands. We could beat it sure. But the damn Soviets are directly behind and they and our native Commies would really like us to be distracted by such trouble while they butt-fuck us.”
Werding noticed a shift in the mood. Many of the men were looking thoughtful now. Time to land the other punch.
“Exactly. That is the reason why it is necessary to do so. But it also has advantages.” The puzzled looks on the faces of his audience made him bark a short laugh. “Just think about it. This abnormality called Poland was a product of Versailles. If we were to persecute the Poles they would certainly condemn us. By helping we instead take their responsibility. We shame them and get a lever to help us. Or at least to ease their pressure to enable us to help. If we do it right we can get the Polish influence in say France to work for our rearmament. Isn´t that the ultimate joke.”
Now the men were grinning as well and worked with more motivation when Werding sent them back to loading the trucks. He did not actually think that Polish influence was anywhere high enough to be of much help, but it was important to distract the men from seeing Poles as enemy. And perhaps they really were what he had told his men: A useful tool for the fatherland.
After long negotiations I think that an agreement with the UK and accepted by most other victorious powers might be letting Germany rearm to about 300 000, but for now have them buy tanks, artillery 105-155mm and single engine planes abroad, everything heavier still prohibited. ideas for armament are the Fiat 3000 and the BL 6-inch 26cwt howitzer. Your opinions?
September 2nd 1920, London
Rathenau leaned back in his chair as he waited for Sthamer to finish the notes he had taken about his efforts so far. The Hamburger was only in London since the beginning of the year and confirmed as ambassador but a few days ago. But he already had made helpful contacts in the British establishment. Now he came to an end and laid the papers upon the desk.
“It is about what we expected. The British are not out to hammer us any further, but they are not yet willing to let us rebound either.”
“The last war has left its mark in this country as well. We won´t be able to get any sympathy votes here. We have to work on their self-interest.”
Sthamer reached for the notes again. “Thus your hints at the economical advantages. Like this part about buying certain weapon systems instead of producing them. You realize though that Germany does lack the cash?”
“I know. That is just addressing their greed. Ultimately we have to illustrate how the restrictions of Versailles are hurting their own economy. And that a Germany that falls to the communists will do so even more.”
Sthamer rubbed his nose. “That might work. I have already noticed that some people are already groping their way towards that realisation. I think we can help them along that way.”
“Me too. It will be mainly your job though. I will be off to Paris after the meeting with the foreign minister tomorrow. At least the British got the French to receive me.”
Sthamer winced. “Don´t envy you about that. I doubt the French will be persuaded by purely economic reasoning. A lot of them truly want to keep us down at any cost.”
Rathenau shrugged. “In that case we just have to find the right way to pressure them. Once the British come around they will help along that way. News from our embassy in Washington are, that they are making a bit progress as well.” He looked at the large clock standing at a wall. “And the next meeting might provide some tools for working the French. Our guest should arrive any time now."
September 2nd 1920, London
Rathenau leaned back in his chair as he waited for Sthamer to finish the notes he had taken about his efforts so far. The Hamburger was only in London since the beginning of the year and confirmed as ambassador but a few days ago. But he already had made helpful contacts in the British establishment. Now he came to an end and laid the papers upon the desk.
“It is about what we expected. The British are not out to hammer us any further, but they are not yet willing to let us rebound either.”
“The last war has left its mark in this country as well. We won´t be able to get any sympathy votes here. We have to work on their self-interest.”
Sthamer reached for the notes again. “Thus your hints at the economical advantages. Like this part about buying certain weapon systems instead of producing them. You realize though that Germany does lack the cash?”
“I know. That is just addressing their greed. Ultimately we have to illustrate how the restrictions of Versailles are hurting their own economy. And that a Germany that falls to the communists will do so even more.”
Sthamer rubbed his nose. “That might work. I have already noticed that some people are already groping their way towards that realisation. I think we can help them along that way.”
“Me too. It will be mainly your job though. I will be off to Paris after the meeting with the foreign minister tomorrow. At least the British got the French to receive me.”
Sthamer winced. “Don´t envy you about that. I doubt the French will be persuaded by purely economic reasoning. A lot of them truly want to keep us down at any cost.”
Rathenau shrugged. “In that case we just have to find the right way to pressure them. Once the British come around they will help along that way. News from our embassy in Washington are, that they are making a bit progress as well.” He looked at the large clock standing at a wall. “And the next meeting might provide some tools for working the French. Our guest should arrive any time now."
I am looking forward to seeing how this develops
I am looking forward to seeing how this develops. While I am not a military expert, 300,000 does not sound like a lot of men to defend against the Soviet Army. I think that you would need at least 500,000 men to hold the border and East Prussia.
In terms of internal security against a Communist uprising, I am wondering if the government would be looking to having former military personnel join the police force. These policemen would be used to form special response units in case of a communist uprising. Hopefully the allies would not question why Germany needed 3-400,000 extra policemen.
I am wondering who is the guest that Rathenau and Sthamer are waiting for. My money is on Winston Churchill. He is very anticommunist and as we saw in our time, willing to work with the lesser of two evils to protect Britain. I am sure that he would fight to the last German to keep the Reds out of Britain.
Stubear1012
I am looking forward to seeing how this develops. While I am not a military expert, 300,000 does not sound like a lot of men to defend against the Soviet Army. I think that you would need at least 500,000 men to hold the border and East Prussia.
In terms of internal security against a Communist uprising, I am wondering if the government would be looking to having former military personnel join the police force. These policemen would be used to form special response units in case of a communist uprising. Hopefully the allies would not question why Germany needed 3-400,000 extra policemen.
I am wondering who is the guest that Rathenau and Sthamer are waiting for. My money is on Winston Churchill. He is very anticommunist and as we saw in our time, willing to work with the lesser of two evils to protect Britain. I am sure that he would fight to the last German to keep the Reds out of Britain.
Stubear1012
300 000 is indeed a bit small for a war with the Soviets, but I think the Western Powers will realize that once Germany rearms it won´t go back to a 100 000 men army. They won´t allow too much fearing that. So perhaps they allow 300 000 peace time strength plus the same again to be called up during war time. With militarised police forces (which existed otl and will feature here) dealing with uprisings and given the garrison demands placed upon the Red army numbers should almost be equal, especially since I thought about 10-12% of the Polish army reaching German territory was not completely unrealistic.
And no, it is not Churchill. It is not a meeting which may bring much hard pressure upon the French government, just some moral one. The post is not yet ready, will probably follow later today though.
And no, it is not Churchill. It is not a meeting which may bring much hard pressure upon the French government, just some moral one. The post is not yet ready, will probably follow later today though.
Thank you
Thank you for your reply. I am looking forward to see how you develop this timeline.
Thank you for your reply. I am looking forward to see how you develop this timeline.
The false believe that Adolf is Bohemian comes from the Fact that he was born in Braunau (in Upper Austria). Hindenburg knew another Braunau - which is in Bohemia and today named Broumov), so he thought Adolf is Bohemian, which is wrong) and called him "Böhmischer Gefreiter"
Maybe Hitler will join one of the Frei Korps paramilitaries. As a former solder and anti communist I can see him doing something like this and fighting the Bolshevik menace. Though he will not play a significant political or military role this would be a highly significant formative experience for the future Fuhrer (assuming that is not butterflied away in this timeline
I think that the GErman-Polish relations will soon become worse than OTL, but then becoming much better.
GErmany will have to take in mmany refugees which will create tensions, but Polish units will bolster the Reichs defenses against the Reds. This and feeding and housing many refugees (even the food and some money will come from other sources - the Poles will remember that they found shelter in GErmany) will build a sense of friendship - the quarreles 1918-1920 will be seen as a brawl between brothers who stand in for each other in need by later Generations.
300.000 (or more in time of war) German soldiers will be enough if well equipped. THE sOviets fielded around 3 Mill. during the civil war, but they had around 40% (IIRC) casualties and the stocks will be quite depleted by now without being able to buy abroad.
IIRC Germany has hidden away more weapons than allowed by Versailles, so they will be able to arm more than the 100.000 allowed troops, but I think the better strategy would be asking teh Entente so provide the arms the larger Heer needs until German factories can again produce sufficient quantities (the knowledge is still there , some machinery might be alredy dsiassmbled, but Krupp, Mauser and the like might be able to produce again on short notice.
Germany should avoid to become too dependent on foreign designs.
Germany will not need tanks at first, but planes should get top priority. Naval assets will be seen as secondary (which will allow England to feel secure with German rearmament - the French won't like it)
I don't know if the German people would like it, but if the German government is able to "lure" in some foreign troops to help defend against the Soviets this might ease tensions with the Western powers (imagine a French "Legion" fighting on German soil against the Soviets - this will be a propaganda victory for Germany as they will likely come home with a different image of Germany - no more enemy, but ally)
Germany could lobby for this under the slogan - every French (British, whatever) soldier fighting against the Soviets in Germany is one GERMAN soldier less you have to worry about
GErmany will have to take in mmany refugees which will create tensions, but Polish units will bolster the Reichs defenses against the Reds. This and feeding and housing many refugees (even the food and some money will come from other sources - the Poles will remember that they found shelter in GErmany) will build a sense of friendship - the quarreles 1918-1920 will be seen as a brawl between brothers who stand in for each other in need by later Generations.
300.000 (or more in time of war) German soldiers will be enough if well equipped. THE sOviets fielded around 3 Mill. during the civil war, but they had around 40% (IIRC) casualties and the stocks will be quite depleted by now without being able to buy abroad.
IIRC Germany has hidden away more weapons than allowed by Versailles, so they will be able to arm more than the 100.000 allowed troops, but I think the better strategy would be asking teh Entente so provide the arms the larger Heer needs until German factories can again produce sufficient quantities (the knowledge is still there , some machinery might be alredy dsiassmbled, but Krupp, Mauser and the like might be able to produce again on short notice.
Germany should avoid to become too dependent on foreign designs.
Germany will not need tanks at first, but planes should get top priority. Naval assets will be seen as secondary (which will allow England to feel secure with German rearmament - the French won't like it
)I don't know if the German people would like it, but if the German government is able to "lure" in some foreign troops to help defend against the Soviets this might ease tensions with the Western powers (imagine a French "Legion" fighting on German soil against the Soviets - this will be a propaganda victory for Germany as they will likely come home with a different image of Germany - no more enemy, but ally)
Germany could lobby for this under the slogan - every French (British, whatever) soldier fighting against the Soviets in Germany is one GERMAN soldier less you have to worry about
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I just found out that Germanys law for the disamament was only voted in Ausgust 1920 OTL - so there will probably still be large quantities of undestroyed weapons in Germany.
Without really seeing the passing streets Eustachy Sapiepha stared out of the window of his car. The grey sky was fitting his mood. He had not really expected all that much from the British. They had along with the French and Americans been vital for the birth of his state. But unlike the French they had not shown all that much interest in Poland´s strength. It was not unsurprising they had not been willing to grant them the necessary help. Of course the French were even worse. All these talks and now, when it really mattered there was no help forthcoming.
Their betrayal meant there was only one power they could turn to. And he did not look forward to it. Just a few years back he had worked for the regency kingdom of Poland, in all but name a marionette of the central powers. After the war Poland had acted from a position of power to get the Polish lands the Reich had occupied. The Germans had not taken that well. And now he came to them as a beggar.
Their common interests might lead them to help Poland nonetheless. But what would they demand in return? No, he did not look forward towards this meeting.
Rathenau and Sthamer personally greeted the Polish foreign minister at the door. This time they had the position of strength. The last years had taught them, how the other side felt, how getting that rubbed in would produce long term resentment. There was no reason to add further complications to an already difficult situation.
After they were seated, refreshments had been offered and the initial niceties had been exchanged Rathenau put down his tea cup and sat a bit straighter. Time for business.
“I don´t think either of us has the time for the typical diplomatic dance. I hope it is acceptable to you if we get right to the matter at hand.” He raised a questioning eyebrow and waited until Sapiepha nodded. “As it is Poland by itself will vanish from the maps once again. I would have lo lie if I´d say many Germans were sad about that. The border conflict between our countries has been a source of major tensions.
But that is a matter between states. Germany does not welcome the ordeal of humans the Soviet expansion produce. Due to the reports from the actions by this Stalin after taking Lwów the Reichstag has decided yesterday to open our borders for any Polish refugee requesting asylum. The supply situation for our own population is still not all that good, but we will strive to provide for the refugees basic needs until a long-term solution is found. We would welcome your help to get support from abroad.
Additionally we will declare several disputed areas to be off-limits for the Red Army, namely Danzig and surroundings and the entirety of Upper Silesia. That does not mean an unilateral annexation of these areas by us, but we will ask for your accomodation about it in the future.”
Rathenau had watched the Polish foreign minister closely while talking. During most of it his face had betrayed nothing, but when the talk came to Silesia it had twitched.
Their betrayal meant there was only one power they could turn to. And he did not look forward to it. Just a few years back he had worked for the regency kingdom of Poland, in all but name a marionette of the central powers. After the war Poland had acted from a position of power to get the Polish lands the Reich had occupied. The Germans had not taken that well. And now he came to them as a beggar.
Their common interests might lead them to help Poland nonetheless. But what would they demand in return? No, he did not look forward towards this meeting.
Rathenau and Sthamer personally greeted the Polish foreign minister at the door. This time they had the position of strength. The last years had taught them, how the other side felt, how getting that rubbed in would produce long term resentment. There was no reason to add further complications to an already difficult situation.
After they were seated, refreshments had been offered and the initial niceties had been exchanged Rathenau put down his tea cup and sat a bit straighter. Time for business.
“I don´t think either of us has the time for the typical diplomatic dance. I hope it is acceptable to you if we get right to the matter at hand.” He raised a questioning eyebrow and waited until Sapiepha nodded. “As it is Poland by itself will vanish from the maps once again. I would have lo lie if I´d say many Germans were sad about that. The border conflict between our countries has been a source of major tensions.
But that is a matter between states. Germany does not welcome the ordeal of humans the Soviet expansion produce. Due to the reports from the actions by this Stalin after taking Lwów the Reichstag has decided yesterday to open our borders for any Polish refugee requesting asylum. The supply situation for our own population is still not all that good, but we will strive to provide for the refugees basic needs until a long-term solution is found. We would welcome your help to get support from abroad.
Additionally we will declare several disputed areas to be off-limits for the Red Army, namely Danzig and surroundings and the entirety of Upper Silesia. That does not mean an unilateral annexation of these areas by us, but we will ask for your accomodation about it in the future.”
Rathenau had watched the Polish foreign minister closely while talking. During most of it his face had betrayed nothing, but when the talk came to Silesia it had twitched.
But the most important thing is the names of territory the Germans DON'T mention - Poznan for example - it seems the Germans learned some lessons
Tyr Anazasi
Banned
But the most important thing is the names of territory the Germans DON'T mention - Poznan for example - it seems the Germans learned some lessons
Posen is difficult. While the East and the centre were very much Polish in 1914 the areas at the other edges were not.
I guess some border corrections here would be demanded as well (especially Bromberg).
Posen is difficult. While the East and the centre were very much Polish in 1914 the areas at the other edges were not.
I guess some border corrections here would be demanded as well (especially Bromberg).
There was already border corrections that you have staten otl. Poland didn't gain the edges otl. Furthermore Silensia partition didn't happend yet. So the Germans can already settle the Silensian border and strengthen there claims in Danzig.
About these refugees...
Where are they going to live and what are they going to do once they get there? There are so many different ways this could go and a lot of them are pretty, well, bad. This is clearly an unprecedented issue for everybody.
Also, would the Germans attempt to use the influx of fleeing Poles as an excuse to get out of reparations, or at least defer their payment?
Where are they going to live and what are they going to do once they get there? There are so many different ways this could go and a lot of them are pretty, well, bad. This is clearly an unprecedented issue for everybody.
Also, would the Germans attempt to use the influx of fleeing Poles as an excuse to get out of reparations, or at least defer their payment?
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Internally Sapiepha winced. The initial German response had been in truth far better than he had feared. But so far they had not given anything important. And already they indicated that they would demand territorial concessions for their help. Even if you anticipated that, it was no easier to swallow. He cleared his throat.
“We thank you for your humanitarian concern. It is certainly welcome. But the best long-term solution for the refugees would be the possibility to return to their homes without the fear of foreign oppression. As you know Poland has currently little hope to turn the war in its favour.
Since it can´t be in your interest either to have an expansionist USSR at your border my government ordered me to officially ask for German support for our war effort.”
Rathenau eyed him calmly and leaned slowly back before answering. “I don´t need to tell you that I am not authorised to negotiate an alliance with your country.” He waited for Sapiepha to nod. “And frankly I can´t really say which kind of help you expect from Germany. Waging a war will not be acceptable to our population. Even material support is not readily available. The provisions of the treaty of Versailles prevent that. We can´t even put any pressure onto the USSR with a meaningful chance to moderate the peace it will impose upon you. Again Versailles is the reason for that. We are willing to do the last and even give you a reasonable amount of material support. But for that we first need your help to moderate the demands Versailles has put upon our country.”
Sapiepha opened his mouth, but Rathenau simply continued.
"That said, even provided we get new terms there will be some conditions your country has to meet for our support. While my government is certainly not in favour of Russia occupying lands not legitimately its own, we can´t ignore the fact that the republic of Poland did so as well and still occupies land which is legitimately belongs to Germany.”
Sapiepha bit down a hot response. Of course that land had been included in the Polish republic. It had been taken by the damn Prussians from Poland in the first place! The demand came not as a surprise though. Germany had never really accepted the shape of their common border.
“I am in no way prepared to give away land which is inhabited by the Polish people. But to settle the dispute the Polish government is prepared to conduct plebiscites in areas which are under dispute.”
“My government is not prepared to accept the results of such plebiscites if the conditions are entirely controlled by Poland. Nor are we prepared to accept such underhanded tactics like driving out German inhabitants or shipping in Polish voters. Such plebiscites have to be based on the pre-war census and done by neutral parties.”
Barely Sapipha was able to keep his anger from showing. “We can accept neutral observers, but the pre-war census were heavily rigged to the German favour. Certainly people who have bought land there since then are more justified to vote than the soldiers who just happened to be stationed there.”
Rathenau had not expected instant agreement about the issue who would be allowed to vote. In many regions the point would be moot anyway, Poland would still win. But the mistakes and injustices which probably were unavoidable to some extent had undermined the legitimation of the border for many Germans. The troubles in Upper Silesia had not helped either. Only a hard stance by the German government would give future ones a chance of acceptance by the public.
“I will pass your position along. We have to protect the rights of our citizens displaced from these lands and we won´t accept falsifying the results, but there should be some kind of mutually acceptable solution. Perhaps a proof of living there for several years before 1918.”
Sapiepha did not seem happy about that, but he did not outright reject it either. The offer was far short of what he had hoped for, even further from anything likely to save his country. But his government now had to take any support offered. The German offer was despite the caveats still more substantial than anyone else´s.
“We thank you for your humanitarian concern. It is certainly welcome. But the best long-term solution for the refugees would be the possibility to return to their homes without the fear of foreign oppression. As you know Poland has currently little hope to turn the war in its favour.
Since it can´t be in your interest either to have an expansionist USSR at your border my government ordered me to officially ask for German support for our war effort.”
Rathenau eyed him calmly and leaned slowly back before answering. “I don´t need to tell you that I am not authorised to negotiate an alliance with your country.” He waited for Sapiepha to nod. “And frankly I can´t really say which kind of help you expect from Germany. Waging a war will not be acceptable to our population. Even material support is not readily available. The provisions of the treaty of Versailles prevent that. We can´t even put any pressure onto the USSR with a meaningful chance to moderate the peace it will impose upon you. Again Versailles is the reason for that. We are willing to do the last and even give you a reasonable amount of material support. But for that we first need your help to moderate the demands Versailles has put upon our country.”
Sapiepha opened his mouth, but Rathenau simply continued.
"That said, even provided we get new terms there will be some conditions your country has to meet for our support. While my government is certainly not in favour of Russia occupying lands not legitimately its own, we can´t ignore the fact that the republic of Poland did so as well and still occupies land which is legitimately belongs to Germany.”
Sapiepha bit down a hot response. Of course that land had been included in the Polish republic. It had been taken by the damn Prussians from Poland in the first place! The demand came not as a surprise though. Germany had never really accepted the shape of their common border.
“I am in no way prepared to give away land which is inhabited by the Polish people. But to settle the dispute the Polish government is prepared to conduct plebiscites in areas which are under dispute.”
“My government is not prepared to accept the results of such plebiscites if the conditions are entirely controlled by Poland. Nor are we prepared to accept such underhanded tactics like driving out German inhabitants or shipping in Polish voters. Such plebiscites have to be based on the pre-war census and done by neutral parties.”
Barely Sapipha was able to keep his anger from showing. “We can accept neutral observers, but the pre-war census were heavily rigged to the German favour. Certainly people who have bought land there since then are more justified to vote than the soldiers who just happened to be stationed there.”
Rathenau had not expected instant agreement about the issue who would be allowed to vote. In many regions the point would be moot anyway, Poland would still win. But the mistakes and injustices which probably were unavoidable to some extent had undermined the legitimation of the border for many Germans. The troubles in Upper Silesia had not helped either. Only a hard stance by the German government would give future ones a chance of acceptance by the public.
“I will pass your position along. We have to protect the rights of our citizens displaced from these lands and we won´t accept falsifying the results, but there should be some kind of mutually acceptable solution. Perhaps a proof of living there for several years before 1918.”
Sapiepha did not seem happy about that, but he did not outright reject it either. The offer was far short of what he had hoped for, even further from anything likely to save his country. But his government now had to take any support offered. The German offer was despite the caveats still more substantial than anyone else´s.
September 4th 1920, Berlin
After the fall of Warsaw the progress of the Polish-Soviet war had for a time dominated the political discussion in the German capital. Initially it had been greeted by people of all political sides. By the far left for the obvious reason. Most others simply had had no love for Poland. Many even had had the hope that the Soviets would give Germany some of its lands back after the passive support it had given to the USSR in this war.
When that did not happen, the political debate turned mostly to other concerns. Even the far left was curiously silent about the success of the Red Army. On the right some took that as a sign that they were preparing for revolution and warned of the danger the USSR was to the German border. Sometimes they also demanded to unilaterally annex the former German areas of Poland. As this was more of the same of their usual talking points, they did not get much attention.
Even the government held back with statements about it. In very moderate wording they reminded the Western Powers of the need to strengthen the German defences under the new circumstances and expressed concerns over the refugee situation at the Eastern Border, but most of that was also directed at an international audience.
Below the public horizon the entire government was working together to prepare for the troubled times ahead. Mostly Seeckt welcomed that. Sometimes less than other times. Especially when he had to report the cabinet. They did not much interfere with operations. With the next issue he had to be circumspect though. Some of that would be delicate to these democrats.
“Thus we have four of our official infantry divisions concentrated in the East now, one in Eastern Prussia the others along a line roughly following the Oder, but shielding Silesia in the South. To deal with the increasing flow of refugees the Prussian Police and the Zollgrenzdienst have shifted additional elements to the Border – officially. In truth that adds an additional division for each we have there, as “police” units even partially motorised ones.
The international control groups even seem to believe that they are police forces. They may have recognized that most of the units have a military background and act that way. But that is hardly surprising today. Without the heavy equipment and logistic trail they won´t rate them as front-line worthy.”
A few of the uninitiated members of the cabinet looked puzzled about that. Even had they never served they were informed enough to know the importance these units had in modern warfare. Seeckt smiled slightly.
“We of course did not even have to hide medical troops. And so far they ignored the transport company our traffic ministry” a short nod to Groener, “has hired to supply the refugees. Likewise the building contractors the Prussian government hired to construct refugee camps. These firms are first and foremost the logistics and engineering battalions respectively. And among their personnel and equipment we were able to hide the majority of the artillery for the unofficial infantry divisions as well. The rest of that is hidden away in railway depots and some minor concealments.”
After the fall of Warsaw the progress of the Polish-Soviet war had for a time dominated the political discussion in the German capital. Initially it had been greeted by people of all political sides. By the far left for the obvious reason. Most others simply had had no love for Poland. Many even had had the hope that the Soviets would give Germany some of its lands back after the passive support it had given to the USSR in this war.
When that did not happen, the political debate turned mostly to other concerns. Even the far left was curiously silent about the success of the Red Army. On the right some took that as a sign that they were preparing for revolution and warned of the danger the USSR was to the German border. Sometimes they also demanded to unilaterally annex the former German areas of Poland. As this was more of the same of their usual talking points, they did not get much attention.
Even the government held back with statements about it. In very moderate wording they reminded the Western Powers of the need to strengthen the German defences under the new circumstances and expressed concerns over the refugee situation at the Eastern Border, but most of that was also directed at an international audience.
Below the public horizon the entire government was working together to prepare for the troubled times ahead. Mostly Seeckt welcomed that. Sometimes less than other times. Especially when he had to report the cabinet. They did not much interfere with operations. With the next issue he had to be circumspect though. Some of that would be delicate to these democrats.
“Thus we have four of our official infantry divisions concentrated in the East now, one in Eastern Prussia the others along a line roughly following the Oder, but shielding Silesia in the South. To deal with the increasing flow of refugees the Prussian Police and the Zollgrenzdienst have shifted additional elements to the Border – officially. In truth that adds an additional division for each we have there, as “police” units even partially motorised ones.
The international control groups even seem to believe that they are police forces. They may have recognized that most of the units have a military background and act that way. But that is hardly surprising today. Without the heavy equipment and logistic trail they won´t rate them as front-line worthy.”
A few of the uninitiated members of the cabinet looked puzzled about that. Even had they never served they were informed enough to know the importance these units had in modern warfare. Seeckt smiled slightly.
“We of course did not even have to hide medical troops. And so far they ignored the transport company our traffic ministry” a short nod to Groener, “has hired to supply the refugees. Likewise the building contractors the Prussian government hired to construct refugee camps. These firms are first and foremost the logistics and engineering battalions respectively. And among their personnel and equipment we were able to hide the majority of the artillery for the unofficial infantry divisions as well. The rest of that is hidden away in railway depots and some minor concealments.”
What will happen if the Poles want their army?
Assuming that the German and Polish governments come to an agreement on helping each other, what will happen if the Polish government wants to rebuid their army on German soil? Also, what will Germany do if the Polish army wants to cross the border and attack the Russian army. I am thinking of hit and run raids.
I am enjoying this timeline.
Stubear1012
Assuming that the German and Polish governments come to an agreement on helping each other, what will happen if the Polish government wants to rebuid their army on German soil? Also, what will Germany do if the Polish army wants to cross the border and attack the Russian army. I am thinking of hit and run raids.
I am enjoying this timeline.
Stubear1012
Tyr Anazasi
Banned
I guess the Poles will be used as auxiliar forces by the Germans and partisans. They will be under tight control and only used more freely if there is an agreement concerning the German-Polish border.