Anglo-German Alliance

[Glen]

Glen, how does this look for a possible divison of French colonies? Purple stays French, Red British, Grey German, Green Italian and Orange Dutch.

Well, it's getting there...

 

[Nicole]

Would the US object to the transfer of French Guiana? I mean, on one hand it does violate the Monroe Doctrine (as does St.Pierre-et-Miquelon, as Canada wasn't fully independent yet) but on the other hand, do they really care?

 

[Glen]

Would the US object to the transfer of French Guiana? I mean, on one hand it does violate the Monroe Doctrine (as does St.Pierre-et-Miquelon, as Canada wasn't fully independent yet) but on the other hand, do they really care?

I think the fact that it is just a trade in which European power has it, rather than a European power making part or all of an independent nation a new colony will temper that.

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Glen]

I think the fact that it is just a trade in which European power has it, rather than a European power making part or all of an independent nation a new colony will temper that.

I could be wrong, of course.

Actually, I am.

Grant extended the doctrine specifically to apply to the transfer of colonies from one European power to another...

 

[CalBear]

Would the US object to the transfer of French Guiana? I mean, on one hand it does violate the Monroe Doctrine (as does St.Pierre-et-Miquelon, as Canada wasn't fully independent yet) but on the other hand, do they really care?

Only to the point of open war to prevent it.

 

[Glen]

Only to the point of open war to prevent it.

Under the circumstances, perhaps an overstatement?

St. Pierre and Miquolon can be transferred to Canada without violating the Monroe Doctrine, as Canada is treated more as an independent nation at this point in history than a European possession...

The other islands and French Guiana may prove more difficult to resolve...a trade perhaps?

Roosevelt, believe it or not, is not going to want to annex them outright to the US...

 

[Nicole]

Only to the point of open war to prevent it.

Why? If I'm reading Glen's earlier posts right, the US seems to be more on the side of the British here, and is probably not going to do anything more than issue a diplomatic complaint, I'd say.

 

[luakel]

Might an independent Guiana be established from the formerly French territory? The other islands would likely go to the US though.

 

[CalBear]

Why? If I'm reading Glen's earlier posts right, the US seems to be more on the side of the British here, and is probably not going to do anything more than issue a diplomatic complaint, I'd say.

Hey, we are talking about TR here. He did not go for half measures or insults, real or imagined. Would he find a violation of the Monroe Doctrine, one of the Touchstones of American diplomacy, by his supposed allies in a rapacious landgrab following a war he imagined was about protecting the rights of the individual, to be insulting? He MIGHT regret the war later, but right now...

Didn't take long to screw up that grand alliance.

Might start that whole North American War section now.

 

[Glen]

Hey, we are talking about TR here. He did not go for half measures or insults, real or imagined. Would he find a violation of the Monroe Doctrine, one of the Touchstones of American diplomacy, by his supposed allies in a rapacious landgrab following a war he imagined was about protecting the rights of the individual, to be insulting? He MIGHT regret the war later, but right now...

Didn't take long to screw up that grand alliance.

Might start that whole North American War section now.

Except for the fact that the Alliance aren't going to antagonize America with no real cause.

The Alliance doesn't need those French North American territories. Something will be worked out.

 

[luakel]

So how about my idea- islands go to the US, Guiana becomes independent under British influence. That way everyone should be happy...

 

[Nicole]

What's the reasoning for doing anything with the colonies in the Americas? I'd say they're just left alone, since there's little military or any sort of advantage to having them (except for maybe St-Pierre-et-Miquelon, Canada will grab that- I think that would break the Monroe Doctrine, though)

 

[luakel]

Because when countries lose, Imajin, they tend to lose almost all (if not all) of their colonies. Just look what happened to Germany in OTL WWI, where I'm sure you could say some of their island colonies had "little military or any sort of advantage" to having them.

 

[Nicole]

Because when countries lose, Imajin, they tend to lose almost all (if not all) of their colonies. Just look what happened to Germany in OTL WWI, where I'm sure you could say some of their island colonies had "little military or any sort of advantage" to having them.

This was a WW1 innovation- France lost a whopping zero colonies after the Franco-Prussian War, for example.

 

[luakel]

This was a WW1 innovation- France lost a whopping zero colonies after the Franco-Prussian War, for example.

That's because really, the age of imperialism hadn't even started for either country, and plus Prussia/Germany had little to no interest in colonies at the time. Colonies will be lost by France in this war.

 

[CalBear]

This was a WW1 innovation- France lost a whopping zero colonies after the Franco-Prussian War, for example.

And Canada when it lost the Seven Year's War.

Prussia was not ready for a colonial empire in 1870. It had to invent Germany 1st.

 

[Nicole]

That's because really, the age of imperialism hadn't even started for either country, and plus Prussia/Germany had little to no interest in colonies at the time. Colonies will be lost by France in this war.

I'm not saying they'll lose zero colonies, just that they won't lose all of them.

All of Germany's colonies had some sort of strategic significance. S-W Afrika could have been used to attack South Africa, East Afrika to attack Belgian Congo and British East Africa, Japan wanted to expand it's power in the Pacific, New Zealand and Australia didn't want Japan to get everything...

In the Americas, any minor significance is offset by the fact that trying to take any of France's colonies is a possible war with the world's largest industrial power. Therefore, it is unlikely that major campaigns will be launched in the Caribbean simply because of the unlikelyhood of any gain.

 

[luakel]

In the Americas, any minor significance is offset by the fact that trying to take any of France's colonies is a possible war with the world's largest industrial power.

TR isn't going to plunge the US into war so that French Guiana and a few islands stay colonies of France, a country that the US went to war with. In fact, he'll probably be happy that the US gets a few islands (the two in the Carribean) out of the deal.

 

[Max Sinister]

@luakel: Nice map, although I could imagine that France keeps most of the Saharan colonies - they're not that valuable for Britain. And you forgot to color German SW Africa, and to divide the Portuguese colonies between Britain and Germany.

 

[DuQuense]

The US would get a Protectorete over the French America, AKA Cuba or Porto Rico, Not a Anexxation pre se.

in 1904 Japan & Russia had a joint Soveriegnty over Salhalikan, the half and half came out of the 1905 war. Here I can see them finally getting the Whole thing. Like the Idea of them Getting the Amur Province.

I can see them stopping at this point and going Defenseive.