Anglo-German Alliance
- Thread starter Glen
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Glen
Moderator
luakel said:
Because the Austrians bled and died to take it, and it is at the chokepoint to the Adriatic?
No.
Unlike you and I, luakel, the Germans had no regard for contiguous borders. They take the Baltics, IMO. If it makes you feel better, it is a Grandy Duchy within the Empire.
More or less Palestine/Transjordan and Lebanon.
I thought that the German war aims to Russia is to create a serie of buffer states between them and Russia. While Mitteleuropa won't happen in TTL because of the alliance with Britain, I think they might preserve this aim to ensure that their eastern border will be safe. On the 'empty desert', with the new acquired territorries, Britain will be one of the biggest oil producer in the future. Japan, too, will have secure oil fields of there own, Sakhalin and Manchuria.
Glen
Moderator
M.Passit said:
And to a degree, they do. But I think they will take the Baltics, as this is what they tried to do in WWI. Granted, KWIII isn't as adamant about that sort of thing as his father, but if you already have it, then why not? There's a fair number of Germans there IIRC, which is why this was considered a plausible idea.
Well...that's what one would have thought at the end of WWII as well. Having them and keeping them are two different things...though, I will say that so far, Britain has acquired these lands 'on the cheap' in terms of cost and loss of life, so they are in a much stronger position than OTL to hold those territories.
The Japanese have their area there, yeah, but then again they had them in WWII mostly as well. They have to find the oil before it will be of use to them.
Glen
Moderator
M.Passit said:
And to a degree, they do. But I think they will take the Baltics, as this is what they tried to do in WWI. Granted, KWIII isn't as adamant about that sort of thing as his father, but if you already have it, then why not? There's a fair number of Germans there IIRC, which is why this was considered a plausible idea.
Well...that's what one would have thought at the end of WWII as well. Having them and keeping them are two different things...though, I will say that so far, Britain has acquired these lands 'on the cheap' in terms of cost and loss of life, so they are in a much stronger position than OTL to hold those territories.
The Japanese have their area there, yeah, but then again they had them in WWII mostly as well. They have to find the oil before it will be of use to them.
Glen
Moderator
The Anglo-German Alliance and the subsequent war are actually likely to at least delay the separation of Norway and Sweden.
One of the biggest problems between Norway and Sweden in 1905 was the differences in foreign policy, one part of which was Norway favoring the UK and Sweden favoring Germany.
Not a problem at this point in this history....
Also, I would think that the Norwegians would wait until things have cooled down internationally before threatening dissolution of the Union...
One of the biggest problems between Norway and Sweden in 1905 was the differences in foreign policy, one part of which was Norway favoring the UK and Sweden favoring Germany.
Not a problem at this point in this history....
Also, I would think that the Norwegians would wait until things have cooled down internationally before threatening dissolution of the Union...
Glen
Moderator
The year 1906 saw the resolution of the Great War. With more and more nations joining the Anglo-German Alliance against the Triple Entente, and the losses in Russia and the Ottoman Empire, and stalled front along the Dutch-German border with France, there was little hope of victory and so the Entente came to the negotiating table.
The Ottomans had lost several areas in Africa and Asia to the British and allied Egyptian and Indian forces. Persia had been a battleground for the Anglo-Indian forces and a joint taskforce of Ottoman and Russian troops. Neither side won a convincing victory, but in the end the nation would come under the protection of the British Empire. In Morocco, the Sultan there called upon British forces for protection from the French Algerians.
With the entry of the USA into the war, the French colonial possessions in the New World that hadn't already been occupied fell easily. American Marines aided Dutch forces in the taking of French Guiana. An expeditionary force was dispatched to Europe to aid at the Western Front. One famous quote from the time of the American Expeditionary Force in Germany was, "Von Steuben, we have come!"
Italy waited to see if the French would break through the German lines, but by the beginning of the year it had become obvious that the French offensive had stalled, and with the addition of the United States to the Alliance, it seemed likely that the Entente would lose. Italy declared war and opened a front in the South of France, but with no more luck than the French had had in the North. A more successful move was the Italian invasion of Tunisia and Eastern Algeria in support of the British invasion of Libya.
Russia suffered terribly in this year. With the stripping of the Far East forces, the Japanese were able to make inroads into the Amur region of Russia, only halted by the strain of the logistics involved. As the Germans and Austrians advanced, the ethnic groups on the fringe of the Russian Empire rose up. Finland was lost, as were the Baltics and Poland. Ukraine was in rebellion and only a concerted effort by the Russians was able to put this down, though this left little to deal with the Romanians who joined the war, occupying Bessarabia.
By mid year, the war was all but over. France had to pay reparations to Belgium and to a lesser degree Holland and Germany. France also lost significant numbers of colonies overseas, with the complete removal of her possessions in the Western Hemisphere, most under the protection now of the United States. Her possessions in Africa were greatly reduced, and the French lost Indochina to the British.
The failure of the Entente led to domestic turmoil once the war was over, and saw the birth of the Fourth Republic in France as well as a new Republic of Russia with the forced abdication and exile of Tsar Nicholas II and his family to Switzerland, the man most blamed for the war.
The new Kingdoms of Finland, Lithuania, and Poland were established, with German nobles for Finland and Lithuania, and a Hapsburg on the Polish throne. The Grand Duchy of the Baltics joined the German Empire directly.
The Ottoman Empire managed to survive, but barely. A new group of leaders called the Young Turks came to power in the aftermath of the war, greatly usurping the powers of the Sultan.
The European portions of the Ottoman Empire were almost completely gone, with only the remnant around Istambul hanging on. Austria-Hungary occupied Albania, while Serbia claimed Macedonia, the Greeks had taken Salonika, and the Bulgarians Thrace.
Tension in Norway-Sweden remained high, but the two parliaments kept peace at the behest of the Anglo-German Alliance during the course of the war. What the fate of the union would be after calm returned to Europe remained to be seen.
The Ottomans had lost several areas in Africa and Asia to the British and allied Egyptian and Indian forces. Persia had been a battleground for the Anglo-Indian forces and a joint taskforce of Ottoman and Russian troops. Neither side won a convincing victory, but in the end the nation would come under the protection of the British Empire. In Morocco, the Sultan there called upon British forces for protection from the French Algerians.
With the entry of the USA into the war, the French colonial possessions in the New World that hadn't already been occupied fell easily. American Marines aided Dutch forces in the taking of French Guiana. An expeditionary force was dispatched to Europe to aid at the Western Front. One famous quote from the time of the American Expeditionary Force in Germany was, "Von Steuben, we have come!"
Italy waited to see if the French would break through the German lines, but by the beginning of the year it had become obvious that the French offensive had stalled, and with the addition of the United States to the Alliance, it seemed likely that the Entente would lose. Italy declared war and opened a front in the South of France, but with no more luck than the French had had in the North. A more successful move was the Italian invasion of Tunisia and Eastern Algeria in support of the British invasion of Libya.
Russia suffered terribly in this year. With the stripping of the Far East forces, the Japanese were able to make inroads into the Amur region of Russia, only halted by the strain of the logistics involved. As the Germans and Austrians advanced, the ethnic groups on the fringe of the Russian Empire rose up. Finland was lost, as were the Baltics and Poland. Ukraine was in rebellion and only a concerted effort by the Russians was able to put this down, though this left little to deal with the Romanians who joined the war, occupying Bessarabia.
By mid year, the war was all but over. France had to pay reparations to Belgium and to a lesser degree Holland and Germany. France also lost significant numbers of colonies overseas, with the complete removal of her possessions in the Western Hemisphere, most under the protection now of the United States. Her possessions in Africa were greatly reduced, and the French lost Indochina to the British.
The failure of the Entente led to domestic turmoil once the war was over, and saw the birth of the Fourth Republic in France as well as a new Republic of Russia with the forced abdication and exile of Tsar Nicholas II and his family to Switzerland, the man most blamed for the war.
The new Kingdoms of Finland, Lithuania, and Poland were established, with German nobles for Finland and Lithuania, and a Hapsburg on the Polish throne. The Grand Duchy of the Baltics joined the German Empire directly.
The Ottoman Empire managed to survive, but barely. A new group of leaders called the Young Turks came to power in the aftermath of the war, greatly usurping the powers of the Sultan.
The European portions of the Ottoman Empire were almost completely gone, with only the remnant around Istambul hanging on. Austria-Hungary occupied Albania, while Serbia claimed Macedonia, the Greeks had taken Salonika, and the Bulgarians Thrace.
Tension in Norway-Sweden remained high, but the two parliaments kept peace at the behest of the Anglo-German Alliance during the course of the war. What the fate of the union would be after calm returned to Europe remained to be seen.
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Not sure that Japan would be that land Hungrary. Remember they have won Big here.
They controll all sides of the Sea of Japan, they have a labor force in Korea, farm land in Manchuria, and Vast minerals, and hydro-Electric potential in the Amur.
Yes they may like to have a few more south seas Islands, But they have enuff problem much closer to home.
The Militarants haven't co-oped the Government yet, so there is a Chance for the Moderates to pull it out.
They controll all sides of the Sea of Japan, they have a labor force in Korea, farm land in Manchuria, and Vast minerals, and hydro-Electric potential in the Amur.
Yes they may like to have a few more south seas Islands, But they have enuff problem much closer to home.
The Militarants haven't co-oped the Government yet, so there is a Chance for the Moderates to pull it out.
I can't see Japan going nut after this kind of victory. There're no anger after OTL Russo-Japanese War to give the radical a much space in Japan's politic. Japan will occupied itself consodilate their gains much of late 1900s to around 1920s to 1930s. Also, Europe will not get weaker by this war and with the resurgent and revanchist Russia emerge, I doubt Britain will drop their alliane with Japan so Japan won't be alone or isolated like OTL.
The Thais' must be getting extremely nervous, now that they almost completely encircled by the British. They are probably going to come under pressure in the coming decades to grant permission for a Thai-Burmese railroad to link Burma and Indo-China (one was surveyed by the British pre WW II, but not completed due to the cost - Depression and all).
I imagine that with Canada having gained ex-French colonial possessions, Britain will be very eager to grant Australia French Polynesia as a reward there. Indeed, given their location, I expect that they will have been occupied and garrisioned by Australian troops during the War, so it should be a fait accompli.
On French Facsism/Communism, I don't feel that it is too likely. There won't be the revanchist movement to the same degree as Germany, as no parts of metropolian Frace have been lost. The economic disruption that followed WW I shouldn't be a factor here - indeed, with limited reparations and being spared the cost of a military and overseas colonies, France might actually do uite well economically.
I imagine the French only retain Madagascar as a symbolic gesture.
I alse vote for a Cape to Cairo and Cairo to Saigon/Singapore railway. It would truely be one of the worlds great engineering projects.
I imagine that with Canada having gained ex-French colonial possessions, Britain will be very eager to grant Australia French Polynesia as a reward there. Indeed, given their location, I expect that they will have been occupied and garrisioned by Australian troops during the War, so it should be a fait accompli.
On French Facsism/Communism, I don't feel that it is too likely. There won't be the revanchist movement to the same degree as Germany, as no parts of metropolian Frace have been lost. The economic disruption that followed WW I shouldn't be a factor here - indeed, with limited reparations and being spared the cost of a military and overseas colonies, France might actually do uite well economically.
I imagine the French only retain Madagascar as a symbolic gesture.
I alse vote for a Cape to Cairo and Cairo to Saigon/Singapore railway. It would truely be one of the worlds great engineering projects.
Glen
Looking very interesting. Not sure how things will go post-war but hopefully a lot better than OTL. [Much reduced costs of WWI and possibly no WWII].
No so sure that there might not be a fascist or at least autocratic and militaristic state in France. It will be bitter at the defeat and loss of prestige. Also some suggestions it nearly went fascist in 1933 and Italy didn't need to be on the losing side to led the march to fascism in 1922.
Steve
Looking very interesting. Not sure how things will go post-war but hopefully a lot better than OTL. [Much reduced costs of WWI and possibly no WWII].
No so sure that there might not be a fascist or at least autocratic and militaristic state in France. It will be bitter at the defeat and loss of prestige. Also some suggestions it nearly went fascist in 1933 and Italy didn't need to be on the losing side to led the march to fascism in 1922.
Steve
Glen
Moderator
All good points.
I think there are several things that are going to mitigate against fascism so far:
No core territories have been lost (no ethnic French, Russian, or Turk).
The Economic situation will be much, much better for all concerned.
Its a bit early for fascism (at least a decade). How old is Mussolini at this point?
Anyway, that's not a guarantee. We still have several countries out there that have various reasons to want more of the world than they have gotten so far. Only time will tell....
As for the Pacific possessions of France, I did leave them out, didn't I?
New Caledonia and the nearer French possessions will go to Australia, I am certain.
As for French Polynesia...its actually pretty far off the beaten path for any of the combatants...given the shorter timeframe of this war (and no Panama Canal yet), we might see them squeak by, and even be retained by France. Haven't fully decided that one yet....
A Cairo to Singapore and Saigon railway is quite possible....
I think there are several things that are going to mitigate against fascism so far:
No core territories have been lost (no ethnic French, Russian, or Turk).
The Economic situation will be much, much better for all concerned.
Its a bit early for fascism (at least a decade). How old is Mussolini at this point?
Anyway, that's not a guarantee. We still have several countries out there that have various reasons to want more of the world than they have gotten so far. Only time will tell....
As for the Pacific possessions of France, I did leave them out, didn't I?
New Caledonia and the nearer French possessions will go to Australia, I am certain.
As for French Polynesia...its actually pretty far off the beaten path for any of the combatants...given the shorter timeframe of this war (and no Panama Canal yet), we might see them squeak by, and even be retained by France. Haven't fully decided that one yet....
A Cairo to Singapore and Saigon railway is quite possible....