"The Bloody Man"

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Understandable in regards to the northern border, although I do wonder about the eastern boundry as well - what would become the state of Rhode Island should also be an interesting back and forth as formal boundries are attempted to be sorted, especially since IOTL Connecticut claimed it until the 1720s.

Yes, you're completely right- in legal terms until 1643 (and arguably beyond) the Providence Plantation was an illegal settlement on land that rightfully belonged to Connecticut. Roger Williams was pretty lucky to get the colonial charter when he did, and this will come up in a later post. It's ironic as it turned out, but the only border that was properly deliniated in the various Grants made for the region was the Narragansett River, which should have formed Connecticut's Eastern border with the Plymouth Colony.

Got your email btw- thanks. Shall reply to that and the PM soon!


Just found this timeline, and it looks really promising. Although I admittedly did need to google half the names mentioned to understand if they were significant.

Yes, sorry- none of the figures mentioned are neccesarily that well known in the grand scheme of things, but the one good thing is that Colonial society was reasonably small, so the same people will keep cropping up again and again. It's the same amongst the Parliamentarians when we get to the *Civil War as well, so hopefully that'll be a help.
 
So just what was the King's objection to the emigration of the Saybrook nobility?

It's not relevant to your direction, I suppose, but I'm quite intrigued by the concept. The colonies developed their own First Families even absent the real deal. Having genuine aristocrats fooling about would have interesting consequences.
 
So just what was the King's objection to the emigration of the Saybrook nobility?

It's not relevant to your direction, I suppose, but I'm quite intrigued by the concept. The colonies developed their own First Families even absent the real deal. Having genuine aristocrats fooling about would have interesting consequences.

Religious and economic reasons, effectively.

On the first, Charles was determined to impose religious conformity on his Kingdoms. While there's an obvious temptation to let the worst radicals bugger off somewhere where nobody cares, Archbishop Laud, took the view that there was no excuse for dissent and that opponents to his religious settlement should be forced to knuckle down and accept it rather than go into exile. You get the general impression that Laud was far more inflexible on this than the King, but the Archbishop was an influential sort.

For most of the period we're talking here, the main theatre for this struggle was a battle over the legality of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Ferndinando Gorges claimed his land patent, which had been granted in 1622, already covered the areas settled by the Bay Colony, protested the issuance of the Massachusetts Royal Charter in 1632, and basically spent most of the 1630s trying to get the colony shut down, egged on by Laud. He might have been successful, given time, but the Civil War intervened and obviously Parliament took a more sympathetic view. This is touched on to a certain extent later on, but only tangentally- I didn't want to get too bogged down in it.

Then there's the economic motive. The King had inherited a huge deficit and was always desperate for money, particularly as the 1630s went on and the Bishops' wars started. This led to him reviving a whole bunch of obsolete taxes such as Distraint of Knighthood (This was a retrospective tax whereby if you weren't at his coronation, you paid a fine.) and most infamously, Ship Money. All this fed into the growing mood of anger against the King that eventually led to the Civil War.

From an economic perspective, having the odd churchman or burgher emigrate wasn't a massive problem. But when large landowners such as Saye and Sele, Brooke, or Hampden, who have already led serious resistance to Ship Money, start preparing to liquidate their assets and leave the country, the Crown is going to see the move in terms of tax avoidance as much as anything else. And as the King is desperate for cash, that's the last thing he needs.

So, you've Charles I. You've tolerated handfuls of unimportant subjects disappearing to found colonies for a couple of decades, but suddenly realise that they could be joined by some major contributors to the exchequer. That prospect's bad enough, especially when considering that they might convince their friends to join them. On top of that, not only are they insubordinate enemies of the Crown, but also borderline heretics who will use their exile to practice their error-ridden doctrines away from the sensible oversight of the church. And while doing this, they'll have a safe haven from which to spread their unacceptable views back to England.

So, the solution is simple- ban them from emigrating to New England. If they're that desperate to move, let them go to Ireland; at least there they're still paying tax and doing the Crown some good in holding the country down.

I should say, btw, that while we're not going to see a formal New English aristocracy ITTL in the sense of a transplated one from across the Atlantic, Saybrook does have a hereditary upper house with a term for life, and will continue to do so. This will have interesting effects in the long term.
 
Very good start, you are already seeing some small differences crop up which are going to have major effects down the line. I think the tradition of a "House of Lords" in the Americas could be very interesting...
 

Thande

Donor
I was just reading a book about Cromwell the other day and have always been intrigued by the idea of him going to America--very glad to see a TL writer of EdT's calibre tackle the subject.

There are two basic possibilities for England without Cromwell: royalist victory, probably followed by trouble and unrest for decades and a general retardation of English ascendancy; or the Republic without Cromwell.The early republican institutions before Cromwell took over were quite interesting but not, IMO, likely to be stable enough for long-term survival.

Either way, I like the reversal of EdT's other TLs--removing a great man, or rather moving him to a more obscure field, rather than taking a potential great man out of obscurity and thrusting him into a position of power.
 
Yes, you're completely right- in legal terms until 1643 (and arguably beyond) the Providence Plantation was an illegal settlement on land that rightfully belonged to Connecticut. Roger Williams was pretty lucky to get the colonial charter when he did, and this will come up in a later post. It's ironic as it turned out, but the only border that was properly deliniated in the various Grants made for the region was the Narragansett River, which should have formed Connecticut's Eastern border with the Connecticut Colony

Ought the 'Narraganset' River be the Pawcatuck? I know that apparently the former was an old name for the latter, but not by the time of RI's charter.

I ask, because as a Rhode Islander and reluctant Yanquistani, I have an interest in my locales. So far I think this is an awesome TL, and that I can directly relate to the setting in question is a great plus.
 
I admit to being a little intrigued by the title . . .

There are several candidates for the title role; the next part, which I'm about to post, suggests one of them.


I was just reading a book about Cromwell the other day and have always been intrigued by the idea of him going to America--very glad to see a TL writer of EdT's calibre tackle the subject.

Thanks- the subject has come up a fair bit in the past but nobody’s ever done an in-depth TL on it. Hopefully I’ll be able to do it justice!


There are two basic possibilities for England without Cromwell: royalist victory, probably followed by trouble and unrest for decades and a general retardation of English ascendancy; or the Republic without Cromwell. The early republican institutions before Cromwell took over were quite interesting but not, IMO, likely to be stable enough for long-term survival.

Those are the two obvious ones- there are a fair few options in between though! One thing I love about the period is how much it’s contingent on personalities; the whole thing would never have happened with somebody other than Charles on the throne, for a start, but then again Cromwell’s Protectorate would be hugely different from Ireton’s, Lambert’s, or Rainsborough’s… and that’s not even going into the stranger, fringe stuff- Fifth Monarchy Britain, anyone?


Either way, I like the reversal of EdT's other TLs--removing a great man, or rather moving him to a more obscure field, rather than taking a potential great man out of obscurity and thrusting him into a position of power.

I thought it’d be interesting. Difficult making things diverge satisfactorily during the Civil War considering Cromwell’s minor participation at the start, though- would be a bit frustrating writing large numbers of posts that are basically OTL.


Ought the 'Narraganset' River be the Pawcatuck? I know that apparently the former was an old name for the latter, but not by the time of RI's charter.

I ask, because as a Rhode Islander and reluctant Yanquistani, I have an interest in my locales. So far I think this is an awesome TL, and that I can directly relate to the setting in question is a great plus.

Yep- the Pawcatuk was known as the Narraganset at the time, although the exact knowledge of its course was a little on the vague side. It’s very good to have a local reader, btw. I have a post on *Rhode Island coming up sometime soon actually, please do pipe up if anything seems on the silly side!


Edit: Right, will post Chapter 2 now- then we'll be back to once a week, Caesariad permitting...
 
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Chapter 2


And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
Joshua 2:10.


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(Taken from “New England: A History” by Robert Talbot, Miskatonic University Press 1937)

“European expansion into the Connecticut River valley had created a tinderbox, and by 1637 this tinderbox was set to catch alight. The five European claimants were not the only ones who disputed control over the region; native society was also in a state of turmoil as the previously dominant Pequot tribe found its grip over the villages of the river gradually slipping away. As early as 1631, local natives had sent emissaries to Massachusetts Bay seeking an alliance with the English against the Pequots. Around the same time, the Mohegan group, which had previously been subject to the larger tribe, split away, its leader, Uncas, asserting his right to be sachem (chief) over both groups. The Pequots were also under pressure from the east, and in 1634 the Narragansett tribe began to contest their ownership of a tract of land around present-day Salisbury[1]. Both sides sought English support against their enemies, offering trade inducements but also exaggerating the martial prowess of their foes in order to worry the colonists. Neither Englishmen nor native was quite sure who spoke for the other side.

Relations between the Pequots and the English had already soured. In 1634, an attempt by Pequot leaders to negotiate an alliance with the Massachusetts Bay authorities foundered on their failure to hand over the murderers of the rogue privateer John Stone[2]. While a vague treaty of cooperation was signed, subsequent contact only encouraged the magistrates to conclude, as John Winthrop put it, that the Pequots were “a very false people”. The Pequots’ enemies took full advantage of this suspicion. In June 1636 Jonathan Brewster wrote from the trading post at Windsor to Oliver Cromwell in Broughton, warning the Saybrook Governor of reports that the Pequots were planning to attack the English along the river. Brewster also claimed to have learned that the murder of Stone was a premeditated ambush, not an act of self-defence; in fact, these warnings appear to have been fed to him by the Mohegan sachem Uncas as a means of poisoning Anglo-Pequot relations, but Brewster does not seem to have realised that he was being manipulated[3]. Though William Pynchon, who was trading further up the river at Wickford[4] sent Cromwell a letter specifically disavowing the claims, Cromwell was sufficiently worried to order the training and drilling of men in each Saybrook settlement, thus increasing tensions still higher.

The New England colonists certainly had reason to feel uneasy in the summer of 1636. Around a dozen Englishmen had been murdered by the natives in the past few years, and none of the killers had ever been turned over or punished. Fears were heightened by recollections of the ‘Great Massacre’ of 1622 in Virginia, where the Powhattans had launched an unexpected attack on the English and wiped out a third of the population. This alone was reason enough to worry about rumoured plans for attacks on other settlements. In the end, two events served as the final straw. In August, John Winthrop the Younger took a shallop from Ft Providence to trade with the Pequot, only to be forced to withdraw when openly threatened with violence; then the mutilated body of Isaac Allerton[5], along with his ship, was found on the shores of Fisher’s Island, in the very heart of Pequot territory. The Pequots quickly acted to deflect suspicion from themselves, claiming (possibly accurately) that the killing had been done by tributaries of the Narragansetts, but were not believed.

As the news spread down the coast towards Massachusetts Bay, Oliver Cromwell had reason to feel particularly vulnerable. As the primary focus of English settlement in the area, it was clear that any attack from the Pequots would fall squarely on the Saybrook colonists[6], and that while reinforcements from the colonies further east would come, it was doubtful whether the newly established settlements on the river could survive a long war, with the risk of starvation that this would entail. Accordingly, the Saybrook Governor elected, with his usual decisiveness, to launch a pre-emptive strike against the enemy[7]…”



(Taken from “The History of Saybrook, 1635-1801” by Henry Armitage, Picador 1945)

“It seems likely that Cromwell’s decision was influenced by his burgeoning correspondence with Myles Standish[8], the long-time military commander of the Plymouth Colony. Standish had been a long-time advocate of such punishment actions against the natives, and had conducted a series of raids based on this philosophy during the formative years of settlement in the 1620s. Whatever his inspiration, however, on August 25th 1636, Oliver Cromwell sent messages to all the Saybrook settlements asking them to send as many men as they were able to spare for military service. He also wrote to John Winthrop, who by this point had been reinstalled as the Governor of Massachusetts Bay[9], warning him- but pointedly not seeking his opinion- about his plan to march on the Pequot before they were in a position to strike.

The prospect of a raid into Pequot territory was not a popular one within Saybrook. While many of the newcomers, particularly Vane and Lawrence, were enthusiastic proponents of the scheme, the residents of Broughton and Wethersfield, who were highly vulnerable to native raiding, were appalled at the idea. Even veterans such as Lion Gardiner and John Seeley were deeply nervous at such a risky move[10]. Yet Cromwell swept all objections aside. He was the Governor, and had been granted unlimited power by the Proprietors.

On Monday September 14th 1636, The Saybrook raiding force of 102 men- about a third of the male population of the Colony, plus the impressed crew of two ships that had put in at Broughton- began their march into Pequot territory. At their head, using two of the handful of horses present in New England, rode Cromwell and Gardiner, in full armour. There were two fortified Pequot villages, one at Mystic, the other at Weinshauks[11]. Sassacus, the Pequot sachem, was thought to be at the latter, so the column targeted its efforts there. In the early morning of the 22nd, Cromwell launched his attack. Part of the Saybrook force, under Cromwell, moved into the village from one of two entrances, while Gardiner’s detachment waited outside the palisade to mop up those who fled. The Pequots, surprised, put up a fierce resistance, and finding himself completely outnumbered and in danger of getting lost amongst the maze of wigwams within the palisade, Gardiner elected to pull back and set fire to the village.

The result was a massacre[12]. As the inferno spread and the Pequots, howling in terror, tried to escape, the English ruthlessly cut and shot them down. As many as seven or eight hundred Pequots were killed, amongst them Sassacus and many of his warriors, but the majority of them women, children and the elderly. Six Englishman were killed and twelve wounded, a significant casualty rate for such a small force. His victorious force low on powder, shot and food, Cromwell quickly made his way west, fighting off a shadowing force of several hundred Pequots in a series of vicious skirmishes…”



(Taken from “New England: A History” by Robert Talbot, Miskatonic University Press 1937)

At first, it seemed as if Cromwell’s coup had merely poked a stick into the hornet’s nest. Almost immediately after the raid, native attacks disrupted attempts to bring in the harvest at Ft Providence, and in late September Wethersfield was attacked, killing four women, one man, and slaughtering many of the settlement’s cattle. Yet in truth the spirit of the Pequots had been broken by the horrendous losses at Weinshauks. Just as importantly, the demonstration of English power swayed other tribes to the English cause. The Narragansetts, who had been pondering launching a war of their own, swiftly renewed their treaties with the settlers[13], and further west, the Mohegan enthusiastically launched attacks against their former masters, raiding and pillaging those Pequot settlements that escaped the English onslaught. In November, a force led by John Endicott from Massachusetts caught the remaining Pequot trying to escape north into Pennacook territory. Many were killed, and the rest surrendered; the survivors of the Pequot nation ended their days as slaves, either for the neighbouring native tribes or in the faraway Caribbean[14].

By the end of the war, Cromwell’s military prowess, distinctive appearance and ruthless savagery had earnt him a terrifying reputation amongst the natives of the region; as fleeing Pequots spread tales of the ruddy-faced Englishman singing psalms as he rode into battle to slaughter his enemies with fire and the sword, the new Governor of the Saybrook Colony became known by a new, and ominous name; ‘Musqiskisuq’, ‘The Bloody-faced one’[15]. It was an appellation that Cromwell would not only earn many times over, but also trade upon, in the years to come…”



(Taken from “Cromwell: New England’s founding Father” by Martijn White, Oxford 1941)

“Despite his uncompromising reputation, it is surprisingly difficult to determine Cromwell’s personal attitudes towards the natives, as distinct from the actions he took, as he saw it, to protect his colony. His first encounter with a member of one of the local tribes was in Boston, a few days after his arrival in the New World, when Chickabot, the sachem of the Massachusetts tribe, visited the town. Cromwell’s comment that the chief “was in English clothes, and so the Governor set him at his own table”, is instructive; he was willing to treat the sachem as an equal, but only because he conformed to English standards of civility[16].

It is quite clear, however, that Cromwell neither sought nor found any merit in native beliefs and customs. Indeed, his default position was that New England was an Arcadia, rudely disturbed by the vicious actions of the native population who therefore deserved firm correction at best, and outright punishment at worst. As his expedition to Weinshauks left Broughton, for example, he told his men that they were Israelites about to extirpate the idolatrous inhabitants of Canaan[17]. Yet this did not necessarily translate to hatred of the natives themselves. They were merely, he later wrote, “a seduced and ignorant people”; his detestation was reserved for their leaders, “a parcel of rogues”, who had led their innocent, if stupid, peoples astray[18].

As was shown on many occasions, Cromwell was perfectly capable of treating with natives, even befriending them, so long as they behaved in what he perceived to be an honourable manner; but ultimately, were they to act viciously, he was firmly of the belief that a swift, hard, terrible punishment was the best way to ensure that such transgressions would never be repeated. In a letter to John Winthrop, possibly written even as he surveyed the corpse-strewn ruins of Weinshauks, Cromwell remarked that;

Sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents… We had sufficient light from the word of God for our proceedings. This is a righteous judgement of God upon these barbarous wretches, who have imbued their hands with so much innocent blood… That it will tend to prevent the effusion of blood for the future, is satisfactory grounds for such action, which otherwise cannot but work remorse or regret. ”[19]



****

Boston,
Massachusetts, April 1637


It was a chilly spring morning, and the nine most influential men in New England- or at least the Godly part of it- had gathered at the mansion of the Governor of Massachusetts to discuss the common issues facing their Colonies. The recent war with the Pequots and the dispersal and sale of the surviving members of the tribe, took up the bulk of the initial discussion. But the issue that Oliver Cromwell cared about most was the conclusion of the Commissioners appointed to assess the status of the Connecticut valley settlements.

Eventually Richard Bellingham, the lead Commissioner, stood to speak. “After considerable deliberation,” he pronounced, “the Commissioners have agreed that the entire Connecticut Valley, insofar as it falls within the original land grant, should be placed under the legal control and authority of the Saybrook Colony.”

There was a general exaltation of breath, as the Saybrook representatives showed their relief and William Bradford of Plymouth, whose colony stood to lose their trading post on the river, frowned in disappointment. Presently, Henry Vane nodded with satisfaction.

“That is an excellent decision, Master Bellingham,” he said.

Oliver Cromwell, sitting next to him, kept his own counsel. Eventually, he leant forward and inclined his head. “This is indeed a welcome development,” he said, carefully, “but while it shall please the Proprietors to have it confirmed that Windsor and Newtown are rightfully the possession of the Saybrook Colony- as we have long contended- I can discern one ambiguity.”

He looked up at the Commissioners. “I note that your judgement as presented does not touch on the matter of Wickford, whose position by the rapids has the potential to command the entire river. What say you on this point?”

Thomas Dudley, who had hoped that the issue would not be raised, pursed his lips. “The Commissioners did not consider the matter of Wickford,” he said carefully, “for therein lies a further dispute- does it rightly lie in the Saybrook tract, or within the authority of Massachusetts Bay?”

Henry Vane bristled. “The position of the Proprietors is quite clear,” he said. “Wickford is a vital part of the Saybrook Grant, and, as the Viscount Saye and Sele has stated, he would hope that the Bay authorities would recognise this fact considering the support he has tendered in London for the extension of the Massachusetts Bay Colony’s oversight north, beyond the Merrimack to Northam and the other towns of the Upper Plantation. It is a perfectly fair arrangement.”

The elder John Winthrop nodded, uneasily. “This is quite true, Master Vane, and we are grateful for His Lordship’s support in this matter. But William Pynchon has written to me asserting that his settlement is within the bounds of the Massachusetts Bay Grant, and moreover, that his fellow settlers are quite content with the present arrangements.”

Cromwell considered the point for a second. “You are indeed correct that the exact position of Wickford is in doubt. However, my surveyor, John Seeley of Wethersfield, is firmly of the view that the settlement lies south of the boundary of three miles beyond the Charles River that is granted by the Bay’s Colonial Charter. I have engaged him in a study to find out the real truth of the matter. Please, my friend, let me be quite clear. It is my firm belief that Wickford has been illegally established on land rightfully belonging to the Saybrook proprietors, and if necessary I shall exercise powers of eviction!”

The younger Winthrop, seeing the need to change the subject, cleared his throat. “Whilst we are all together and speaking of illegal settlements, what do we propose to do about the heretic Roger Williams and his ‘Providence Plantation’?”

There was a general shudder around the table. “I hear that he has Anabaptists settled with him,” Henry Vane said, appalled. “Anabaptists! It sickens me to the stomach!”

The elder Winthrop grimaced. “I agree, Master Vane. It flies in the face of all our attempts to establish a Godly community here in the New World. But I fear we must be practical, difficult though it may be in the face of such provocation. Roger Williams has powerful allies amongst the Narragansett. Any attempt to remove him, laudable though it may be, would risk war- and I fear that such a struggle would be far harder than our recent strife with the Pequot.”

Cromwell narrowed his eyes. “The Narragansett are indeed a tougher proposition than the Pequot, but that is a nettle that sooner or later we must grasp. They will only grow stronger. Why give them time to cultivate alliances with the other tribes when we can strike them now and remove the problem for good? That way we are rid of both them and the heretics they shelter.”

John Endicott gave an emphatic nod. “Master Cromwell is correct,” he said, “bring on the war! The Narragansett almost joined the Pequot-“

“and might have done so were it not for Williams’ diplomacy,“ Winthrop Snr interjected.

“-which only shows his dangerous influence on them!“ Endicott shot back, before continuing. “We must face facts. Between our three colonies lies a powerful and potentially hostile heathen tribe, in the pocket of a dangerous radical, who is gathering to him all the heretics and scoundrels we expel from our own settlements. The Providence Plantation is a far greater threat than the Pequot ever were. It is a viper’s nest, and the sooner we purge this thing from our shores, the better!”

William Bradford gave an exasperated sigh. “It is very easy to talk of conflict when it is not your own settlements that would be burned,” he said, shaking his head. “If war were to break out with the Narragansett, it is the Plymouth Colony that would be on the front line, not Massachusetts! We would risk being pushed into the sea. I do not dispute that Williams is a threat- he has caused Plymouth as much tribulation as Massachusetts, as well you know! But for the time being, we are not strong enough to avoid exercising discretion.”

Endicott rolled his eyes. “You would let the infection fester and spread!” he spat.

There was a long, tense silence, and the colonists stared at each other warily. Finally, Cromwell shifted in his seat slightly, looked straight at John Endicott, and muttered something inaudible.

Endicott frowned. “I am sorry sir, but I did not quite catch your comment.”

Cromwell paused, then barked with laughter. “No sir, and neither shall you catch this!” he roared, and in one swift movement picked up the cushion he had been sitting on and hurled it at Endicott’s head. Endicott ducked, missing the projectile by inches, and let out a startled chuckle. As Cromwell hurled himself to the floor, the other men beginning to rise, Endicott pulled his own cushion from the chair and threw it back at the Saybrook Governor, missing him completely and instead taking William Bradford full in the face.

Bradford clutched the cushion, mischief in his eyes. “You sir,” he exclaimed, “have declared war!”

By now cushions were flying everywhere as the colonists ducked for cover behind chairs, laughing and shouting. The horseplay only came to an end when the maid entered to offer refreshments, and instead found the cream of New England society hurling soft furnishings at each other, rolling around the floor wrestling, and giggling like naughty schoolboys. There was an awkward silence as the gentlemen disengaged and dusted themselves down.

“Shall we adjourn for dinner?” Winthrop said, dryly.[20]


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[1] OTL New London, CT.

[2] Stone had been killed earlier that year by the Pequots when he tried to raid their lands for slaves to take back to Virginia. The Massachusetts Bay authorities took the view that while he probably deserved to die, he was still an Englishman and his killers had to be punished.

[3] All of this is as OTL so far.

[4] OTL Springfield, MA

[5] Allerton was one of the original Pilgrim Fathers who came on the Mayflower, and a prolific trader. This death ITTL is roughly equivalent to the murder of John Oldham on Block Island IOTL, and is a butterfly from the different personalities and settlements created ITTL.

[6] OTL this was the case as well, but ITTL there are already more colonists in the Connecticut valley, so the inhabitants are potentially even more vulnerable.

[7] This was not what happened IOTL, when the Massachusetts Bay elected to send a punitive expedition aimed at heading off a war, rather than a major strike aimed at winning one.

[8] Standish was a veteran of fighting in Holland who had been engaged by the Mayflower expedition to provide the group’s military and engineering expertise. By the 1630s he had begun to withdraw from public life into retirement on his farm in the Colony, but remained a staunch advocate of pre-emptive strikes against potentially troublesome natives.

[9] IOTL Henry Vane had taken the role, but as he has settled in Saybrook ITTL, Winthrop gets back into power a year earlier.

[10] This was broadly the same IOTL, where the biggest opposition to the Pequot War came from the Connecticut valley.

[11] IOTL, when John Mason’s expedition invaded Pequot country, Mystic was an easier target, so the massacre took place there. ITTL, the expedition is coming from the opposite direction so Weinshauks is the more obvious prospect.

[12] The same happened OTL at Mystic, and effectively broke the Pequot tribe; ITTL the massacre is even worse.

[13] OTL, the Narragansett sachems vacillated, and were eventually persuaded to join on the English side by Roger Williams. ITTL they remain neutral.

[14] This was the fate of the Pequots IOTL as well; most of the residents of St David’s Island in Bermuda are descended from Pequot tribesmen transported there in the 1630s. .

[15] Cromwell evidently was a very red-faced man, which fits nicely with his reputation in this context- even his supporters IOTL used euphemisms like “sanguine” to describe his appearance.

[16] This attitude was extremely prevalent during the period.

[17] Cromwell’s attitude towards Native Americans ITTL is largely taken from his OTL attitude towards the Irish, English reactions to both being very similar in the period.

[18] This corresponds reasonably closely to his view of the Welsh peasantry.

[19] OTL, Cromwell said something similar after the storming of Drogheda, although the comment is also influenced by contemporary attitudes towards the Mystic massacre.

[20] I’m not going to make a habit of footnoting the vignettes, but I’ll make a special exception on this one. For all this sounds ridiculous, Cromwell actually turned a serious military meeting into a pillow fight IOTL too, during the run-up to the second Civil War in February 1648. It’s far too silly an occasion not to repeat.
 
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[20] I’m not going to make a habit of footnoting the vignettes, but I’ll make a special exception on this one. For all this sounds ridiculous, Cromwell actually turned a serious military meeting into a pillow fight IOTL too, during the run-up to the second Civil War in February 1648. It’s far too silly an occasion not to repeat.

And it is for stuff like this that I not only enjoy but learn from your writting, Ed. A quick question, dealing with dates - how long would it take for word of the Civil War to reach Boston? For a moment, I thought they would recieve word at this meeting, and while the pillow fight was better, it did make me wonder what sort of time lag we are dealing with at this time.
 

Thande

Donor
You capture Cromwell well in that last segment. He had a love of juvenile humour and practical jokes that remained even after becoming Lord Protector in OTL. Quite at odds with theimage of the dour Puritan. He was also absolutely mad for playing football, especially at university--perhaps you could have him create an earlier formalised version of the game that becomes the New England colonies' national sport?
 
A quick question, dealing with dates - how long would it take for word of the Civil War to reach Boston? For a moment, I thought they would recieve word at this meeting, and while the pillow fight was better, it did make me wonder what sort of time lag we are dealing with at this time.

It's very variable really- AFAIK most crossings from England to Boston would take between 4-6 weeks, the majority of passages being on the longer side. If you were unlucky with the wind and weather though, you could be out there for months. In terms of the spread of news and correspondence, I think six weeks delay is a decent rule of thumb, apart from during the winter when it might be rather longer.


You capture Cromwell well in that last segment. He had a love of juvenile humour and practical jokes that remained even after becoming Lord Protector in OTL. Quite at odds with theimage of the dour Puritan. He was also absolutely mad for playing football, especially at university--perhaps you could have him create an earlier formalised version of the game that becomes the New England colonies' national sport?

Yes, life in the Protector's court seems to have been rather more entertaining than you'd think- music, laughter, practical jokes... His tendency to spread honey on people's chairs and then point and laugh when they tried to stand up and found themselves stuck must have been a bit of a pain after a while.

Cromwell's problem, as IOTL, is that even if he's a bit of a fun-loving sort, his colleagues are rather less so. I really like the football idea and will try to incorporate it, but I can't really imagine the early New England settlers as the sort who would like a good ruck, sadly- a bit too godly, on balance. We shall see though.
 

Thande

Donor
Yes, you notice a lot of that kind of thing. I don't know if it's hypocrisy or just that Cromwell was less killjoy than the subordinates who actually ran the country but...like how the Protectorate banned organs in churches but Cromwell himself loved organ music and had an organ installed in his house. Which oddly enough was the same house that would later form part of Number Ten Downing Street.

Re Cromwell and the Indians (great band) I like the comparison to the Irish, but think he might have had a slightly better view--the Irish being determined children of misbelief whereas the Indians could be viewed as just ignorant and in need of missionaries. Cromwell was predominantly a pragmatist on such matters though, as seen in his decision to let the Jews back in, so I would expect him to be ruthless towards the Indians where they conflicted with the needs of English settlers but otherwise willing to live and let live. Maybe even teach them football so they can play a match with him to seal a peace treaty or something ;)
 
There are two basic possibilities for England without Cromwell: royalist victory, probably followed by trouble and unrest for decades and a general retardation of English ascendancy; or the Republic without Cromwell.The early republican institutions before Cromwell took over were quite interesting but not, IMO, likely to be stable enough for long-term survival.

I'm more interested in my old idea of a British Shogunate. Charles I is killed during the Civil War, and Charles II becomes king with a regency council.

I did this in Vive la Francewank, which involved him being surrounded by regents - mostly Palimentarians, can't think why...(;)) - and having to sign something like the Bill of Rights (for both England and Scotland) that William III signed following the Glorious Revolution, if a bit watered down.

That's had quite and affect in *British politics, as you might suspect... ;)
 
Yes, you notice a lot of that kind of thing. I don't know if it's hypocrisy or just that Cromwell was less killjoy than the subordinates who actually ran the country but...like how the Protectorate banned organs in churches but Cromwell himself loved organ music and had an organ installed in his house. Which oddly enough was the same house that would later form part of Number Ten Downing Street.

The issue there was one of context, as I recall- secular music was fine, just not appropriate for church. But yes, the impression I get of Cromwell was that while he did certainly have the intense religious faith, it... shall we say, served his purposes rather than vice versa. It's like the quote from the Venetian Ambassador about the Protectorate being determined ""to deprive the Catholics of their possessions, but to let them hear as many Masses as they would". He was a pragmatic sort when he had to be, and that extended to throwing red meat to the more dour faction in the country when neccesary. The whole Christmas banning thing comes to mind.


Re Cromwell and the Indians (great band) I like the comparison to the Irish, but think he might have had a slightly better view--the Irish being determined children of misbelief whereas the Indians could be viewed as just ignorant and in need of missionaries. Cromwell was predominantly a pragmatist on such matters though, as seen in his decision to let the Jews back in, so I would expect him to be ruthless towards the Indians where they conflicted with the needs of English settlers but otherwise willing to live and let live. Maybe even teach them football so they can play a match with him to seal a peace treaty or something ;)

Oh, quite. Which was why I included the quote he made IOTL about the Welsh. Basically, I see Cromwell's Indian policy as being the same as his policy towards everyone else- "Do as I say, or at least don't get in the way, and you'll be treated firmly and fairly. But if you do oppose me you'll get an absolutely merciless kicking." The Mohegan, who sensibly remained English allies IOTL, will do rather well with Cromwell around, I suspect.


I'm more interested in my old idea of a British Shogunate. Charles I is killed during the Civil War, and Charles II becomes king with a regency council.

Ah yes, although I can't help think that Charles II is a little too old to make the perfect puppet, wheras James is a bit too stubborn. They probably need to have accidents of some sort for things to go according to plan. Prince Henry's perfect though- not only is he just a toddler but you can instill the proper education in him, much as OTL.

For the real British Shogunate, it should be the Army grandees of course, not the wishy washy sorts in Parliament. But why stop there? The joy of it is that you've got a lovely variety of consequences depending on who ends up with custody of young King Henry IX. If the Covenanters spirit him away, can we get Presbyterian Britain? Or even better, Citizen-King Henry, beloved of the army, reforming his Kingdoms with the aid of that nice Lord Protector Rainsborough. Oh the possibilities!
 
A cushion/pillow fight? Really. Certainly the most unexpected thing to read when serious men are talking about slaughtering whole tribes.
 
Another good update, you have mentioned several times that the Connecticut Valley is more settled ITTL at this point than in OTL, you have also mentioned several groups that in OTL went to Massachusetts and also people who stayed in England. So what is the division of Cromwell's extra settlers between those "stolen" from Massachusetts and extra arrivals from England?
 
A cushion/pillow fight? Really. Certainly the most unexpected thing to read when serious men are talking about slaughtering whole tribes.

Oh, quite- but that’s the joy of Oliver Cromwell. God, slaughter, and a surprising amount of practical jokery…


Another good update, you have mentioned several times that the Connecticut Valley is more settled ITTL at this point than in OTL, you have also mentioned several groups that in OTL went to Massachusetts and also people who stayed in England. So what is the division of Cromwell's extra settlers between those "stolen" from Massachusetts and extra arrivals from England?


Well, it’s worth bearing in mind that the numbers involved here are tiny; even IOTL, by 1640 Connecticut’s population was between 1000-1500 settlers depending on the estimate. I’m expecting another couple of hundred added to that ITTL, which proportionately is pretty major. Of these extra colonists in the Connecticut Valey, the majority will be people who intended to emigrate IOTL as part of the Saybrook effort but never did thanks to its collapse; people like the Revd John Livingstone and his Ulstermen, for example.

While IOTL there were people, like Henry Vane or Hugh Peter, who went to the New World intending to be part of the Saybrook effort but ended up settling in Massachusetts instead, it’s worth noting that the majority of them actually ended up returning to England after a few years. I suspect, given the fact that more colonists are emigrating anyhow ITTL, that Massachusetts isn’t going to be losing out on new arrivals either; the two colonies will be more evenly matched compared with OTL, where the Bay was the 800-lb gorilla of New England in population terms. Massachusetts will still be the largest colony ITTL, just not by anything like as much.
 
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