Base Maps from 550 BC to Modern Day, all in UCS!

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Was there a Classic World UCS really big color scheme around here somewhere? I've not been able to find it...
If you mean the UCS, which is no longer updated and the grand ancestor of most colour schemes : there it is.
If you mean the RCS, which is the currently updated version of UCS : there it is
If you mean the aRCS, which I is a variant of RCS that I use for maps before 1648 : there it is.

(Admittedly, we forgot to put them on the wiki)

Ooh, is the Indian one this one?
Partially, I use it with the french one, to check them both.

I used the Historical Atlas of South East Asia when I was doing that massive revamp of the 19th Century East Indies.
Oooh, shiny!

Thanks.

BTW, how does the your map of 1880? (And then, the doors of Hell broke loose)
 
BTW, how does the your map of 1880? (And then, the doors of Hell broke loose)

It's Jan 1885 rather than 1880, and I've not done any work for a while. Been busy with Jobhunts, Enterprise, and the council series and Africa just gets so frustrating at times. Thankfully the council maps for this year are nearly done.
 
117 CE, in all its glory.
Critics and corrections are welcome.

As usual, mapping Pre-Columbine America is a pain in the ass. I decided to not map Hopsewell and Marskville culture, as being more big-man societies than actual chiefdoms as far I was able to gather.

117CE.png
 
Hey there!

I need the following most up-to-date WORLDA- and QBAM maps:

- 1918/19 with all claims of Deutschösterreich
- 1920 - farest eastern Polish frontline in Soviet Russia
- 1939-08-31
- 1942 - biggest extent of Nazi Germany


Thank You
 
Undergoing some updates of previously made maps, and there might be changes (still checking them) on colours (changes of colours or new ones underlined in red)

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Well, it's taken months to do this, but I've finally finished the 1885 map:D. Feel free to point out any mistakes/better borders.

Earliest 1885 map in this thread for context here.

1885.png
 
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Krall

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And I've done a labelled map of Africa for everyone to make sense of the place.

This is amazing! I remember when Africa was just a few vague blobs on basemaps with no information about what those blobs were meant to represent. :D

There are a bunch of interesting details here that I had no idea existed! Do you mind if I ask what the Senussi zone of control and the Gwandu military territory are? And why do the sultanates in the Horn of Africa share a coloured border?
 
This is amazing! I remember when Africa was just a few vague blobs on basemaps with no information about what those blobs were meant to represent. :D

There are a bunch of interesting details here that I had no idea existed! Do you mind if I ask what the Senussi zone of control and the Gwandu military territory are? And why do the sultanates in the Horn of Africa share a coloured border?

Right, the Senussi zone of control is indicative of the area in which the Senussi had established fortified desert strongholds, chiefly the oases of Kufra and Borku. Most of that area would be uninhabited desert though but they had control over the trade routes between the oases as well. Arguably it should stretch up to Siwa as well but the Khedives were cracking down on control there by the 1870s.

The Gwandu military district is an area which I've found on maps which appears to be differentiated from the Emirate proper but which doesn't have any indication of being a tributary per se- I've indicated it as such somewhat speculatively and might be wrong on that.

The coastal outline is an indication that all those Sultanates are Somali in culture and language.

EDIT: Also, just realised I'd missed the Boer outline on the Niuew Republiek (I think I had assumed it was the Zulu at some point or something).
 
While that's an impressive and detailed work...Half of it would be hardly distinguishable on the worlda, unfortunatly, and could easily be put as statelets when it comes to cultural/political continuums.
 
While that's an impressive and detailed work...Half of it would be hardly distinguishable on the worlda, unfortunatly

Well, it's on the worlda already, that's just an enlargement of it. Generally speaking I wouldn't say it's any worse than the sort of mess you get with medieval Europe or colonial India/Indonesia.

and could easily be put as statelets when it comes to cultural/political continuums.

Eh not especially. I'm pretty confident that you're talking about Nigeria and the Great Lakes region chiefly, possibly Senegal and parts of the cape as well. Of those, the only one where I can really say that there's a simplification to be made is merging Bondu in with the rest of the Wolof statelets. To go through the others, south to north.

1. The Cape (where I've just noticed checking a source map that the three protectorates are actually Tembuland and East and West Pondoland, Gcalekaland being the small bit south of the intrusion of the Cape colony (the area of Fingoland), in addition the single British pixel is Port St. John's). That area is hardly more complicated than parts of British India we have already, and merging it into one protectorate is only going to get you two pixels less of border, both in places where you're hardly going to notice it anyway. The Boer states are in an even worse position-Orange and the ZAR need to be shown as fully separate, so it's only the two smaller ones north of Zululand which would be applicable, and again that's a single pixel.

2. On the great lakes- well we already show that level of complexity on the Uganda protectorate, and the cultural continuum doesn't really include Rwanda or Burundi anyway.

3. For the Sokoto Caliphate, by this stage it was more of a confederation of Emirates paying fealty to the Caliph with various degrees of actual control. Showing it in one block is about as misleading as doing the same for France in the 12th Century, and the statelets+outline method has the issue of it being at least nominally a single state rather than a collection of independent closely related ones (and incidentally that definition should probably include the very definitely independent states to the north).

4. For the Gwandu Empire- more debatable, the core area could possibly be shown in one block, but it's still somewhat inconsistent to do so, and again the place was in decline so the vassals were slipping away rapidly. As for the now de facto independent ones to the south, there's about 3 different language families represented there including Nupe, Yoruba and Edo. Yes you could group them as a single continuum of similar statelets, but that's about the equivalent of grouping medieval France, Italy and Germany together without any differentiation the languages are so dis-similar.
 
I agree with AR here. The only excuse for not showing this level of detail in africa in the past has been a lack of knowledge/sources and caring. It's a level of detail given generously to Europe, India and colonies of Europe all the time.
 
It's a level of detail given generously to Europe, India and colonies of Europe all the time.
That's false : in several maps involving really small entities in Europe, the statelets are gathered with one general border.
Irish kingdoms, earlier Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, Celtic kingdoms/cities, etc. It's not a matter of absence of knowledge, but the map being readable.

For exemple, take a look at 1000 AD France or HRE : there's a large part of entities depicted as statelets, safe the bigger and most coherent ones.

(Or look at the previous worlda map, for 117AD)

Well, it's on the worlda already, that's just an enlargement of it.
Which make it, as it's zoomed, easier to read and distinguish. I was talking about how it would be rended on worlda, unzoomed.

I'd point, again, that statelets shouldn't be used for purely cultural continuum (which is always hard to define) but political/cultural continuum, meaning it could include entities with different cultural basis, but with enough complementarity and influence (mutual or not) with others that it's hard enough to differenciate them and makes little geopolitical sense to do so.
 
That's false : in several maps involving really small entities in Europe, the statelets are gathered with one general border.
Irish kingdoms, earlier Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, Celtic kingdoms/cities, etc. It's not a matter of absence of knowledge, but the map being readable.
w4slLiO.png

Ireland posted around for scale. There is no over dedication of detail to Africa in this map. Within the same map India is given even more detail. All over the planet in all kinda of time periods features and even states that have so little importance or are distinguished in no significant way are rendered even when they're smaller than a pixel. The continent itself suffers no lack of clarity except for possibly the Wolof States, but that is more down to their actual shape, the way they have to be depicted and the intrusions of colonial powers. There's no reason why something like the single pixel scale divisions of the German empire or British India should be depicted when the relatively large divisions in Africa would not be. Furthermore it would also certainly be the case if you were to apply the same standard to the present day. And applying a different standard depending on the time period is definitely not something desirable in my opinion.

but with enough complementarity and influence (mutual or not) with others that it's hard enough to differenciate them and makes little geopolitical sense to do so.

Unless Alex Richards is being deliberately misleading then I think he's figured out that there is enough geopolitical reason not to conglomerate them. If there is then it would definitely be on a state by state basis, and you'd have to counter him on his specific choices, not a large premise.
 
There is no over dedication of detail to Africa in this map.
I notice you didn't copy/paste Ireland close to the most problematic regions. As in Great Lakes and central Nigeria : there we have 2/3 pixels representing one entity. Several of these regions have represented identities being smaller than it.
(And of course, way smaller than other political ensembles covering statelets, Ireland being among the smallest with Wales)

Please note that I didn't said there was an "overdedication of detail to Africa". I can safely said that I tried giving maps I did as much information on African states I could find, arguing of the necessity to use new colours to better represent their importance, so I'd be pleased if you don't put this in my mouth.

Within the same map India is given even more detail.
To be really frank, the "But someone did it first" doesn't strikes me as the best defense (and how India is represented, is largely coming from other maps rather than AR's specific work).

All over the planet in all kinda of time periods features and even states that have so little importance or are distinguished in no significant way are rendered even when they're smaller than a pixel.
Yes, when it doesn't really harm the reading and the clarity of a map : it's why, in several cases, I simply get rid of some stuff like 2/3 entities that gave few informations and prevented an easier reading of the general situation.

There's no reason why something like the single pixel scale divisions of the German empire or British India should be depicted when the relatively large divisions in Africa would not be.
Giving that I think we shouldn't dedicate too much room for anything one pixel-wide in German Empire (it's not like depicting its divisions is really sound geopolitically) or British India (the degree if information about several individual pocket-princely states being dangerously close to 0)...

I remember having been criticized for not representating every federal entity in US, even when it made no real geopolitical sense doing so : the whole "we do so for Europeans" doesn't really have a big weight for me. If something I think we should do less for European/American states, and get really relaxed on many inner borders for what matter worlda, unless it implies an important change from political norm (such as territories, for exemple)

And applying a different standard depending on the time period is definitely not something desirable in my opinion.
As it would mean geopolitical matters and definition never ever changed during millenias I completly disagree with you : of course these are more of a matter about cultural/political conceptions than time period, but it would be hugely confusing using two or more different legend standards on a same map (I think it was Hastur arguing using an equivalent of aRCS for some regions even after 1648, but it would be a nightmare to implement, without really solving the issue).

The continent itself suffers no lack of clarity except for possibly the Wolof States, but that is more down to their actual shape, the way they have to be depicted and the intrusions of colonial powers.
Unless Alex Richards is being deliberately misleading then I think he's figured out that there is enough geopolitical reason not to conglomerate them.

An historical map isn't about depicting the exact situation, but giving an as best interpretation of the former you can give giving the sources and the representation material.
There's, it's not about sources (I'm sure AR did his job), but about the scale of the map which is really reduced : would have the basemap be a Q-BAM, it wouldn't have been a problem.
We're talking about how depicting really small states on a worlda without loosing too much readability, not about the "right" of a political entity to be represented in all its particularities no matter the context.

It's why "statelets" colour is a thing since quite a time. Because it definitely helps when borders are either unknown or unclear when it come to depict them at this scale; and it's why we use different scales : small ones are good for general context, larger ones are good for particular context.

If there is then it would definitely be on a state by state basis, and you'd have to counter him on his specific choices, not a large premise.
I disagree : again, I changed borders made by AR's maps on ulterior correction NOT because they were incorrect, but because they provided too few worthy informations for the absence of clarity that their depiction

Clarity isn't something accessory : it's a basic carthographical principle.
Nobody was or is required to have special knowledge on an era or region to point and ask if it couldn't be made otherwise (or at least, I don't remember it being argued there)

I just said that the Great Lakes region could use simplification (which is AGAIN, not about saying it WAS simple, but about being able to tell what's going on there), and I ask if the geopolitical situation there couldn't lead to gather these political entities, because of a principle of as much clarity you can get without getting rid of too much information.

Do you think that when the mapmaker get to sources and is honest ("unless you think he's deliberately misleading us" is just plain stupid, to be polite, even for being snarky for the sake of it*) it means they can't be criticized about representating what he gathered?
I know that it happen a lot of time for me, hence why I go back to maps regularly to correct and if possible simplify them (some were nightmarish, especially the 1115) : it's not about AR being personally wrong, it's about (using similar tools, and having each other commenting our maps) knowing that it's something everyone can fall into. Basically why it's a collaborative thread.

*Let's be clear : I don't take very well any insinuation that I would consider AR (someone with I had nothing but most cordial exchanges when it came to map and map criticism) as a liar or a fraud.

Now, case by case?
Keeping in mind using different borders for inner politics (as with Waddai and states under its direct dominance).

90 to 93 seems to be either close, if not issued from 91 culturally and politically. While Bunyoro-Kitara Empire may be only a mythological reference, that it's known in both sides of Great Lakes kingdom may at least be considered as the sense of a political/cultural continuity. And eventually ground to consider these kingdoms close enough for being gathered in a statelet group on worlda scale to me.

Sokoto case is a bit harder, and AR's points are sound. Nevertheless, I'm not sure representing each border of these entities (whom main common point is to be associated, more or less, with Sokoto) and vague enough to have AR not being entierly sure of their characteristics (up to their name) is that a of a good idea.

I understand we're facing a structural limitation there, as gathering them all could make a confusion with "one big Sokoto client" instead of a large set of statelets with various degrees of independence. That's what you get applying Westphalian definition of sovereignty to regions where it can't really be applied.

But, why not playing on borders there? As in plain border for the whole of Sokoto "confederation" (including northern states) but using inner political borders (and colouring differently the regions, as letting "northern caliphate" blank)?
I reckon it would still let the problem of lumping together different entities, but we actually did so for medieval France, giving the lack of choice (clarity trumping exactitude) : eventually the best choice would be to lumping them there, and distinguish them on Q-BAM, to me.

As for Wolof states...I wonder if it wouldn't be more clear without colour, to be honest.
 
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