I found in the deep archives of SHWI a thread discussing the possibility of a Norman Egypt. My interest was piqued, so I started writing.
Note: This is in mixed format, with some fake accounts, some third person narratives, and some just plain TL.
The Chancellor’s and Holy Man’s father was named Geoffrey, and their mother Emma; both slender in rank and wealth, but abundant in virtue and cleverness. They were born in Flanders, and lived in Melfi. It was there that Simon and Raymond lived out their youth. Raymond as he began to grow to manhood, he began to follow more prudent ways of life, and began to study, learn and exercise the rudiment of more subtle conceptions. Simon was apprenticed to the Guiscard Duke Robert to pay off a debt that Geoffrey owed to the Duke.
Hugo Gilbertus, Historia Sicilia, c. 1335. English translation by Robert FitzRoy.
***
OTL
ATL
Minor P.O.D. A merchant family from Flanders, the de Montay's, move to Melfi in Southern Italy. Their two sons come into the services of Robert Guiscard de Hauteville, Duke of Apulia. Everything is more or less the same as IOTL until Guiscard's invasion of the Byzantine Empire in 1081.
1050: Twin boys, Simon and Raymond, are born to Geoffrey and Matilda de Montay in Flanders.
1051: The Montay's pack up and leave from Flanders to escape creditors. They travel to Melfi, in southern Italy, where they have relatives. Geoffrey becomes a cloth merchant
1063: Simon enters the service of Robert 'Guiscard' de Hauteville, the Duke of Apulia.
1066: Raymond enters the priesthood
1071: Simon proves himself at the sieges of Bari and Palermo.
1076-77: Simon fights in the siege of Salerno.
1079: Raymond, a prominent supporter of the Pope in the Investiture Controversy, is appointed bishop of Venosa. Simon is granted a small fief in Apulia
1081: Guiscard sails against the Byzantine Empire. He achieves a key victory over the Emperor at Durazzo. Both Montay brothers act as Guiscard's administrators.
1082: Guiscard takes they key Macedonian fortress at Kastoria.
Major P.O.D.: Byzantine emissaries meet with Guiscard, and convince him to withdraw from Byzantium, and attack Fatimid Egypt.
***
Never trust a Greek bearing gifts. Proverb
Kastoria, April 109
Robert stared across the Macedonian plain. He had wished to seize the glory of Constantinople, but the corpulent ambassador from Alexius had convinced him that there was greater glory to be had. The Norman in him loved the idea of a surprise attack. The Caliph would never expect legions of Franks charging down the Nile, paid for by Byzantine coin, and supported by Byzantine and Venetian ships.
The ink had barely dried on the parchment when the Duke began to make preparations. The fifteen thousand or-so men under his command might be enough to best a host of effeminate Greeks, but to take Egypt from the Saracens would be an entirely different matter. For that reason, he had sent Bohemond and Count Simon back across the Adriatic to gather more men to the cause. The Duke himself would stay in Kastoria, hiring Greek and Slav mercenaries.
To maintain the trustworthiness of the Greeks, something that was quite difficult to achieve, Guiscard would leave garrisons at Kastoria and Dyrrhachium. Indeed, like the light shining from they great lighthouse, the future seemed bright for the Duke of Apulia.
***
The foul stink of men and horses filled the nostrils of Raymond de Montay.
"War is not the most pleasant of escapades," he said to the towering figure of Duke Robert on his right.
"Nay," replied the Duke "But we the small band of faithful shall overcome the multitude of faithless, none the less,". The the right of the Duke, fully suited in main and carrying a hefty spear, was his wife Sichelgaita. The formidable Lombard lady often rode into battle at the side of her husband.
Raymond peered out of his helmet at the Mohammedan lines forming outside the city. He then took a look behind him at the pillars of smoke arising from the transport galleys. Duke Robert, ever the fox, had ordered the oars burned, like William the Bastard back in Normandy.
The Norman army assembling behind them was not at all was Duke Robert characterized it to be. It was not very faithful, as both Greek heretics and even Saracen levies from Sicily filled its ranks. It was hardly small, containing over fourty thousand men in total, with fifteen thousand besieging Damietta. The recruiting efforts of Bohemond and himself had been wildly successful. Normans, Lombards, and Frenchmen all flocked to fill the ranks of Guiscard. Hundreds of knights had flocked from Toulouse in particular, raising the ire of the lord William there.
The force opposingthem had the same numbers, but no cavalry. Their ranks were filled with conscripted serfs and men from the deep of Sudan. The two opposing forces began to exchange volleys. Raymond was surprised at the ferosiousnes of the arrows from the Sicilian Saracens. The missiles tore wide gaps in the poorly armored Egyptian lines.
After a time of volleying, Duke Robert sounded for the infantry to charge. The longer shields of the Franks proved superior, and they soon gained the upper hands in the battle, pushing the Egyptians back toward the city walls. At that point, the cavalry were ordered to charge the Egyptian ranks. The Egyptian first line collapsed back into the second, and the second into the third, causing much chaos. the Franks exploited this chaos, and soon the Egyptians were in full rout.
By the end of the day, Raymond was drenched in blood, but the jewel of the Nile had been taken.
***
Thoughts? How long do you think a Norman campaign with 45,000 troops and naval support would take to conquer Egypt?
Note: This is in mixed format, with some fake accounts, some third person narratives, and some just plain TL.
The Chancellor’s and Holy Man’s father was named Geoffrey, and their mother Emma; both slender in rank and wealth, but abundant in virtue and cleverness. They were born in Flanders, and lived in Melfi. It was there that Simon and Raymond lived out their youth. Raymond as he began to grow to manhood, he began to follow more prudent ways of life, and began to study, learn and exercise the rudiment of more subtle conceptions. Simon was apprenticed to the Guiscard Duke Robert to pay off a debt that Geoffrey owed to the Duke.
Hugo Gilbertus, Historia Sicilia, c. 1335. English translation by Robert FitzRoy.
***
OTL
ATL
Minor P.O.D. A merchant family from Flanders, the de Montay's, move to Melfi in Southern Italy. Their two sons come into the services of Robert Guiscard de Hauteville, Duke of Apulia. Everything is more or less the same as IOTL until Guiscard's invasion of the Byzantine Empire in 1081.
1050: Twin boys, Simon and Raymond, are born to Geoffrey and Matilda de Montay in Flanders.
1051: The Montay's pack up and leave from Flanders to escape creditors. They travel to Melfi, in southern Italy, where they have relatives. Geoffrey becomes a cloth merchant
1063: Simon enters the service of Robert 'Guiscard' de Hauteville, the Duke of Apulia.
1066: Raymond enters the priesthood
1071: Simon proves himself at the sieges of Bari and Palermo.
1076-77: Simon fights in the siege of Salerno.
1079: Raymond, a prominent supporter of the Pope in the Investiture Controversy, is appointed bishop of Venosa. Simon is granted a small fief in Apulia
1081: Guiscard sails against the Byzantine Empire. He achieves a key victory over the Emperor at Durazzo. Both Montay brothers act as Guiscard's administrators.
1082: Guiscard takes they key Macedonian fortress at Kastoria.
Major P.O.D.: Byzantine emissaries meet with Guiscard, and convince him to withdraw from Byzantium, and attack Fatimid Egypt.
***
Never trust a Greek bearing gifts. Proverb
Kastoria, April 109
Robert stared across the Macedonian plain. He had wished to seize the glory of Constantinople, but the corpulent ambassador from Alexius had convinced him that there was greater glory to be had. The Norman in him loved the idea of a surprise attack. The Caliph would never expect legions of Franks charging down the Nile, paid for by Byzantine coin, and supported by Byzantine and Venetian ships.
The ink had barely dried on the parchment when the Duke began to make preparations. The fifteen thousand or-so men under his command might be enough to best a host of effeminate Greeks, but to take Egypt from the Saracens would be an entirely different matter. For that reason, he had sent Bohemond and Count Simon back across the Adriatic to gather more men to the cause. The Duke himself would stay in Kastoria, hiring Greek and Slav mercenaries.
To maintain the trustworthiness of the Greeks, something that was quite difficult to achieve, Guiscard would leave garrisons at Kastoria and Dyrrhachium. Indeed, like the light shining from they great lighthouse, the future seemed bright for the Duke of Apulia.
***
The foul stink of men and horses filled the nostrils of Raymond de Montay.
"War is not the most pleasant of escapades," he said to the towering figure of Duke Robert on his right.
"Nay," replied the Duke "But we the small band of faithful shall overcome the multitude of faithless, none the less,". The the right of the Duke, fully suited in main and carrying a hefty spear, was his wife Sichelgaita. The formidable Lombard lady often rode into battle at the side of her husband.
Raymond peered out of his helmet at the Mohammedan lines forming outside the city. He then took a look behind him at the pillars of smoke arising from the transport galleys. Duke Robert, ever the fox, had ordered the oars burned, like William the Bastard back in Normandy.
The Norman army assembling behind them was not at all was Duke Robert characterized it to be. It was not very faithful, as both Greek heretics and even Saracen levies from Sicily filled its ranks. It was hardly small, containing over fourty thousand men in total, with fifteen thousand besieging Damietta. The recruiting efforts of Bohemond and himself had been wildly successful. Normans, Lombards, and Frenchmen all flocked to fill the ranks of Guiscard. Hundreds of knights had flocked from Toulouse in particular, raising the ire of the lord William there.
The force opposingthem had the same numbers, but no cavalry. Their ranks were filled with conscripted serfs and men from the deep of Sudan. The two opposing forces began to exchange volleys. Raymond was surprised at the ferosiousnes of the arrows from the Sicilian Saracens. The missiles tore wide gaps in the poorly armored Egyptian lines.
After a time of volleying, Duke Robert sounded for the infantry to charge. The longer shields of the Franks proved superior, and they soon gained the upper hands in the battle, pushing the Egyptians back toward the city walls. At that point, the cavalry were ordered to charge the Egyptian ranks. The Egyptian first line collapsed back into the second, and the second into the third, causing much chaos. the Franks exploited this chaos, and soon the Egyptians were in full rout.
By the end of the day, Raymond was drenched in blood, but the jewel of the Nile had been taken.
***
Thoughts? How long do you think a Norman campaign with 45,000 troops and naval support would take to conquer Egypt?
Its unusual and interesting and both are good !