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Old August 21st, 2013, 03:48 PM
The Red The Red is online now
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The Triumph and the Sorrow: The 1944 US Presidential Election and Beyond


November 9th, 1944

The President poured himself a belt of brown inside his White House den. As he lifted the beveled rocks glass to his lips he observed the cubes of ice clinking around the liquid, like little boats in a sea of blood soaked water. He took his first sip, and realised he was probably going to be making a night of this.

It would not be a surprise to many that the man who had repealed Prohibition enjoyed a drink now and then. His family had always teased him for his bizarre concoctions that he would use to make the Ladies frivolous and the men merry but his usual style, a couple of cocktails before dinner and perhaps a smidgen afterwards had now gone out of the window. If his dear friend had still been in office, the White House staff may have called the feat of drinking his keeping of 'Winston Hours' as they joked in the past. Anthony Eden had been gracious to try one of his Haitian Libations but from the bizarre face he'd made in drinking it, he doubted he would be having any late night sessions with the new Prime Minister before his successor moved in.

His successor, the fellow New Yorker who had been happy to resort to the worst kind of dirt and treachery to scrape a Republican return to the war. It was clear that in all his gang busting he had picked up a criminal mindset himself, and now this upstart, inexperienced district attorney would be leading the United Nations struggle against Global Tyranny. He shuddered.

It was not his fault that Overlord had been such a catastrophe. He had been assured that the weather was clear, perfect for the liberation of Western Europe. Instead the nation had witnessed with horror the worst storm of the year so far. He cursed Eisenhower, those poor boys drowning, stumbling into German guns disorientated and sick without air support or assistance behind enemy lines. At least he had do e the honourable thing and resigned, though he would make sure that he would never occupy a command position again.

At such a time of tragedy, it was important for the nation to pull together as one to ever increase the ferocity of the American war effort to show the boys in the Philippines and Italy and the South of France that they were united in making sure that they had the courage to pull through and arm them with ever better weaponry until both Hitler and Hirohito had been sent to hell. His successor had had no such patriotism, smugly talking of 'Disaster Day' and how the war effort was being ruined by their Commander in Chief. He had tried to make the little upstart pay for that, although in retrospect the outright comparisons to Hitler had only played into his successors hands, as had the calamity of picking Wallace.

Henry was a good man, the President didn't care whether or not he had some strange religious views, spirituality was supposed to be private, between the individual and God, that was the American way. The Republicans had seen those damned letters of course, and decided they were fair game and convinced the American public that his Vice President was under the control of some sort of modern day Rasputin. And so it had been that despite his majority in the popular vote, his successor that scraped an electoral college victory. And appeared for the press grinning with that I'll dated headline which had predicted his downfall.

As he wondered whether those same dirty tricks would against the Germans and the Japanese the President poured himself another glass.

He had a terrible headache.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 03:58 PM
Stolengood Stolengood is offline
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Please stop centering your text, Red; it gives me a headache to read.
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Leibniz was a genius, but in a lot of ways he had his worldview as weirdly distorted by his religious beliefs as Newton did.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 04:08 PM
AlfieJ AlfieJ is online now
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Oh god no.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 04:10 PM
Shadowlord Shadowlord is offline
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So, the POD seems to be a failed D-Day landing giving Dewey ammunition to win the election. Interesting idea. I've seen failed D-Day timelines and President Dewey timelines, but never one that mixed both together. Curious to see where this goes.

One question though. Why did Eisenhower go ahead with the operation ITTL in spite of the weather when he was very careful about conditions being right IOTL?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:15 PM
d32123 d32123 is offline
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Awesome. Subscribed!
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:17 PM
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:58 PM
The Red The Red is online now
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Originally Posted by Shadowlord View Post

One question though. Why did Eisenhower go ahead with the operation ITTL in spite of the weather when he was very careful about conditions being right IOTL?
Essentially the storm began shortly after the boats were sailing. To demand a retreat would have exposed Overlords destination, Eisenhower took a risk, and it backfired.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:03 PM
d32123 d32123 is offline
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So are we getting President Dewey, or are you throwing a curveball at us and having Roosevelt get beaten by a different Republican from New York?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:13 PM
OnlyAlb OnlyAlb is offline
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This sounds like an interesting timeline please continue.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:52 AM
Rich Rostrom Rich Rostrom is offline
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Originally Posted by The Red View Post
Essentially the storm began shortly after the boats were sailing. To demand a retreat would have exposed Overlords destination, Eisenhower took a risk, and it backfired.
I think this doesn't quite work.

OTL: the invasion was scheduled for 5 June.

The invasion force put to sea on 4 June.

Then the weather on 4-5 June turned awful, and the invasion was cancelled. All the ships had to put back to harbor and troops disembarked back to their quarters in port cities, but remained poised for the operation. The invasion force couldn't stay at "action stations" very long.

Early on 5 June, despite the weather being awful, SHAEF's weather group reported that by 6 June the bad weather would blow over and there would be at least three days of clear weather.

Eisenhower gave the order to attack on 6 June. The troops and ships began moving again on 5 June. The weather cleared in the night of 5-6 June.

If the weather stayed bad, the invasion would be cancelled. There would be no attempt to land in rough seas or without air support.

However... If the weather turned bad suddenly after the landings had begun, that could lead to failure.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:03 AM
The Red The Red is online now
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Originally Posted by Rich Rostrom View Post
I think this doesn't quite work.

OTL: the invasion was scheduled for 5 June.

The invasion force put to sea on 4 June.

Then the weather on 4-5 June turned awful, and the invasion was cancelled. All the ships had to put back to harbor and troops disembarked back to their quarters in port cities, but remained poised for the operation. The invasion force couldn't stay at "action stations" very long.

Early on 5 June, despite the weather being awful, SHAEF's weather group reported that by 6 June the bad weather would blow over and there would be at least three days of clear weather.

Eisenhower gave the order to attack on 6 June. The troops and ships began moving again on 5 June. The weather cleared in the night of 5-6 June.

If the weather stayed bad, the invasion would be cancelled. There would be no attempt to land in rough seas or without air support.

However... If the weather turned bad suddenly after the landings had begun, that could lead to failure.
ITTL the invasion was delayed until the 19th of June, which was considered to be the next clear day by meteorlogists which in IOTL did turn into a very violent storm several hours after the initial landings would have gone ahead. Of course a retreat could have been called, and it was, but that's not much help for the first wave.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 04:48 PM
Rich Rostrom Rich Rostrom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red View Post
ITTL the invasion was delayed until the 19th of June, which was considered to be the next clear day by meteorlogists which in IOTL did turn into a very violent storm several hours after the initial landingswould have gone ahead. Of course a retreat could have been called, and it was, but that's not much help for the first wave.
Ah. That works, very nicely.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 05:55 PM
THE OBSERVER THE OBSERVER is online now
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President Henry Wallace. Should be interesting.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:34 PM
The Red The Red is online now
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President Henry Wallace. Should be interesting.
Only for a few months mind.

How much damage can he possibly do?
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Old August 25th, 2013, 02:47 AM
Rich Rostrom Rich Rostrom is offline
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Only for a few months mind.

How much damage can he possibly do?
Does Roosevelt die or resign? I can't see him resigning.

Wallace can't hurt things too much in two and half months, and besides, he'd be constrained by his lame-duck-ness.

If he tries to Do Things to obstruct or prevent Dewey's expected policies, he'd encounter a lot of foot dragging, even from committed New Deal Democrats.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 02:56 AM
Rich Rostrom Rich Rostrom is offline
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...despite his majority in the popular vote, his successor that scraped an electoral college victory.
Factoid: a nationwide swing of 2.52% in the popular vote would have given Dewey 281 EV - but FDR would still have won the popular vote, 24.4M to 23.2M. (Dewey would carry NY with 47 EV by 519 votes.)

A 3% swing would give Dewey 316 EV, but FDR wins the popular vote, 24.2M to 23.4M.

3.8% would give Dewey the popuiar vote by just over 20,000, but only 4 more EV (320).

4.6% would give Dewey the popuiar vote by 780,000, but only 3 more EV (323).
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-- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

Last edited by Rich Rostrom; August 25th, 2013 at 03:01 AM..
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Old August 25th, 2013, 02:59 AM
AlfieJ AlfieJ is online now
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When can we hope for an update comrade?
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Old August 25th, 2013, 03:34 AM
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So are we getting President Dewey, or are you throwing a curveball at us and having Roosevelt get beaten by a different Republican from New York?
What other prominent Republicans were based in New York at the time? Fiorello La Guardia?

EDIT: Oh shit, you don't mean...
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Old August 25th, 2013, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Rostrom View Post
Factoid: a nationwide swing of 2.52% in the popular vote would have given Dewey 281 EV - but FDR would still have won the popular vote, 24.4M to 23.2M. (Dewey would carry NY with 47 EV by 519 votes.)
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Originally Posted by Marky Bunny View Post
1944
Dewey beats FDR.

Dewey 281 ev
Roosevelt 250 ev

Ariosto did one based of Gallup polling that was a mixture of these two scenarios:
Quote:
A 3% swing would give Dewey 316 EV, but FDR wins the popular vote, 24.2M to 23.4M.

3.8% would give Dewey the popuiar vote by just over 20,000, but only 4 more EV (320).
Given that Dewey just scraped by, it's probably the first one. 519 votes...
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Old August 25th, 2013, 05:00 AM
Andras Andras is offline
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Did the Allies conduct Operation Dragoon in August?

Even if they lost the Airborne and embarked Divisions, they still have the remainder of 3 million troops available to land by the end of August.

Southern France is lightly defended and IOTL the ports of Toulan and Mariseille were captured and returned to service along with the railways in Southern France.
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