Kingdom of Hawaii
- Thread starter Nedved
- Start date
I think if Hawaii was a independent Kingdom, they would have been screwed when Hirohoto came into power over in Japan, it probaly would have been a worse Pearl Harbor if Hawaii was independent, and I see them becoming a US state eventually wheater they are annexed in 1898 or not
Would the US be able to support their Pacific mini empire without Hawaii? Would American advances drive them into the arms of the Dutch, British, Japanese, or Russians? I don't think Hawaii could ever be a power in the Pacific. But they could be a hell of a strategic position for another Pacific power player.
Laurentia
Banned
Aside from the massive genocide of butterflies,
I don't think Hawaii can remain independent of foreign interests for too long. There just too strategically situated to be ignored.
Unlikely.
Even before the USA took Hawaii, there were several instances where the French threatened the Islands, and one where the British Did take over the Kingdom for about Six Months.
If the Americans Don't Bother, the British would probably snatch it up.
if the British don't, which I think is unlikely, the Dutch Probably have the second Best Chance.
If we push the POD back Further, the Russians Also have potential, but that would Require someone more competent than Schäffer, and Tzar Alexander I to actually give a damn about it.
Ignoring the Butterflies, why would America Give a damn if an Independent Hawaii is attacked?
Even before the USA took Hawaii, there were several instances where the French threatened the Islands, and one where the British Did take over the Kingdom for about Six Months.
If the Americans Don't Bother, the British would probably snatch it up.
if the British don't, which I think is unlikely, the Dutch Probably have the second Best Chance.
If we push the POD back Further, the Russians Also have potential, but that would Require someone more competent than Schäffer, and Tzar Alexander I to actually give a damn about it.
Ignoring the Butterflies, why would America Give a damn if an Independent Hawaii is attacked?
Could Japan have a realistic shot at it at any point? Maybe the Dutch take it and the Japanese take from the dutch in 1941.
EDIT which of course takes it out of this subforum, but just as speculation.
because even before USA had annexed Hawaii, they had ships there, not annexing Hawaii means that American ships are still there on December 7th, 1941 (and we're saying the chance the Pearl Harbor is worse is greater if Hawaii stays independent,)
Kalakaua did Offer his Niece to the Head of one of the Secondary Clans that would take over if the Main Branch of Japan's Royal Family died off, but that would require a number of different PODs.
not to mention it would be too late for Hawaii.
It would depend if World war II even happens as we know it.
birdboy2000
Banned
Given the general frenzy of the age of imperialism for snapping up small states and Hawaii's strategic location, an unconquered island seems extremely unlikely. I think the monarchy's best bet is to become a British protectorate ruled with a light hand, and get its independence back with the monarchy intact and not horribly discredited on the grounds of British collaboration, ala Tonga, Oman, et al.
Except no Hawaii could potentially Mean no American Philippines, or other Asian Possessions, therefor Japan is less of a threat to America, no Embargo on Japan, and then No Japanese attack of Desperation on Pearl Harbor.
as I said before, with all of this going on, What benefit would Japan get by launching an unprovoked attack on not one, but at least Two Neutral nations, and Potentially Ships of Other nations that would be at Pearl?
that would be the Best case Scenario.
Hawaii could be a Pacific Cuba, with its independence guaranteed by the US and in exchange the US could lease a naval base and have economic dominance.
One of the last Hawaiian kings was angling to form a small "Polynesian Empire" in the Pacific-- Kalakaua, I think-- which involved claiming Tonga or Samoa, I forget which. If he had managed to succeed in that project, and might well have been able to pull off a Belgian Congo-like diplomatic coup considering all the emerging conflicting claims, that would've been a key step in securing Hawaiian independence. Scoring that territory would've secured greater relations with the Western powers, and Western relations and recognitions was key to survival.
I mean, it already is. The Hawaiian culture experienced a renaissance during the 60s-80s, with hula, hawaiian music, and traditional events being brought back. So while I, as a proud hawaiian, can tell you it's unlikely we'll ever see the Kingdom once more, it's legacy is carried on still.
I've always had at least a passing interest in the state's rather unique culture & history..........
For example, did the rest of you guys know that it's the only state in the Union with an Asian-American majority?
IIRC the British and the French had an agreement that neither would try and claim the islands since they didn't want to see the other get them and were useful enough as a neutral port. If you want to stop the coup and the islands later going to the US perhaps instead of just an agreement not to claim them the British and French declare the islands to be a joint protectorate? They did it with the Hew Hebrides apparently. Allows the locals to run things internally whilst the Anglo-French protectors take care of foreign relations and defence issues.