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  #141  
Old May 7th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Douglas Douglas is offline
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  #142  
Old May 7th, 2010, 07:06 AM
Hyperion Hyperion is offline
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Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

Crawford has been the first Union general lost in combat, from what I've been able to tell.

On the Confederate side, brigadier general Anderson(brigade not division) and Wilcox have both been killed this time around, when historically both men survived?

Hancock on the Union side has been injured, but his injury didn't sound life threatening, and he could still play some role in the fighting later on, depending on the situation and how long he needs to recover.
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  #143  
Old May 8th, 2010, 05:52 AM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Unhappy Who shall live and who shall die?

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Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

Crawford has been the first Union general lost in combat, from what I've been able to tell.

On the Confederate side, brigadier general Anderson(brigade not division) and Wilcox have both been killed this time around, when historically both men survived?

Hancock on the Union side has been injured, but his injury didn't sound life threatening, and he could still play some role in the fighting later on, depending on the situation and how long he needs to recover.
Hyperion

I want to thank you for pointing out an oversight of mine. I should have taken the time to note for the readers those casualties that are (more or less) historical. Major General Hancock suffered life-crippling wounds during Pickett's Charge. It was a medical miracle the surgeons were able to save his life without antibiotics. ITTL, he has suffered a cleanly broken femur that CAN be easily treated provided it is treated and set immediately.


However, Hancock is going to be in traction for months.

The Devil's Den, of course, was precisely that. The officers did not particularly suffer as badly as they might have in open field combat, but if some enemy private sees all that "brass" up close and personal...

In terms of casualties, the battle so far has been far more linear than IOTL, revealing the very nasty communications breakdown between Lee, Longstreet, Anderson, and Anderson's Brigade commanders. Even Trimble, as rarering a fighter as you will find, did nothing. Though considering the shattered state of his units it couldn't be expected to do much on the Second Day. Lee apparently expected them only to "demonstrate" before Rodes' Division in Gettyburg Town went into action.

And while there are opinions aplenty, the records of these pivotal hours are near non-existent below the Corps/Divisional level. It seems as though between Lee's failure to increase the size of his staff and mistrust of written orders (Sharpsburg) Lee may have begun to suffer the same "command paralysis" as the AotP. It should be noted that if so it would be for very different reasons. The AoNV was not officered by the kind of men convinced that he and HE alone would be a future President of the CSA!
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  #144  
Old May 8th, 2010, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

Crawford has been the first Union general lost in combat, from what I've been able to tell.

On the Confederate side, brigadier general Anderson(brigade not division) and Wilcox have both been killed this time around, when historically both men survived?

Hancock on the Union side has been injured, but his injury didn't sound life threatening, and he could still play some role in the fighting later on, depending on the situation and how long he needs to recover.
And Hood and Barksdale are fine.CSA/AoNV
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  #145  
Old May 8th, 2010, 07:27 AM
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Smile Hello, General Lee! We're from Pennsylvania!

6PM to 7PM The Second Day

II Corps' Headquarters

Brigadier General John Gibbon was still somewhat dizzy. It was hard to believe Win(field Scott Hancock) had taken such an injury. He'd looked so invincible before that round took his horse down. Thank God it wasn't a shell or we would have lost Meade as well. Losing the Army AND Corps commanders in the same sector all at once? Don't even think about it, John.

But then I have to, don't I. One step from Army Command (Though he reasoned Hancock was coming back and he was the most junior Corps commander in the army. I figure now it'll be Sedgwick next, whatever the seniority. But what if something happens to Grant? Lincoln will doubtlessly send Sherman, his other "pride and joy".

As Gibbon gazed over the battlefield, even through all the smoke, he could see the attack to his south faltering even as the one against him was starting to build. Anderson's Division, looks like. Boy! They sure are spread out! As his guns fired on, Gibbon could only shake his head ruefully. What do they expect us to do, anyway? Runaway at the first sign of their uniforms? Maybe they are gambling there isn't a single regiment in this army from Pennsylvania?
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  #146  
Old May 8th, 2010, 10:28 AM
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Time is running out

6PM to 7PM The Second Day

Emmittsburg Road The Pickett Fence


As murderous cannon fire rained down on Perry's Brigade, their temporary commander, Colonel Lang, barked his orders. "Get these fence staves down NOW! We can't reform, the formations coming behind us can't stay in ranks, with this damned obstruction in our way! And I want some good runners!"


Volunteers came up quickly, sure enough. "I need three of you, pointing to what looked like the fastest trio amongst the volunteers, to find out what's going on with the rest of the division! You," pointing to the first runner,"Find out what's going on with Wilcox's Brigade. They've been losing their unit cohesion within and without. Tell Wilcox I need him up at the double-quick just to make up the ground he's lost! You," pointing to the second runner,"Find Wright, his brigade, or whoever is in charge now, and find out what's going on with them and the next two brigades, Posey and Mahone! You," pointing to the last runner, "Tell General Anderson if the rest of the division doesn't come up soon, I may have no choice but to disengage and withdraw."

Please Lord, I pray to you, don't let my boys be the first to show their backs to the enemy.

'Who would have thought this little fence could come to mean so much this day?' thought Lang.
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  #147  
Old May 8th, 2010, 10:53 AM
67th Tigers 67th Tigers is offline
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Originally Posted by usertron2020 View Post
"It's that kind of fury that gets Medals of Honor, Colonel." Sedgwick said
In one of those many details you get wrong, the Medal of Honor was for enlisted personnel only until the 1890's. ACW officers had to apply in the 1890's for them.
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  #148  
Old May 8th, 2010, 10:59 AM
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Tick-tock

6PM to 7PM The Second Day

The Emmittsburg Road at the fence

Closest Confederate controlled point to the Copse of trees/Due west of the trees

Posey's Brigade

After going at the double-quick, following desperate messages from Wright and their mutual commander Anderson, Posey's Brigade at last linked up, in a ragged line, with the rest of the division to the south, or at least so it seemed. While the men busied themselves breaking up the fence on the Emmittsburg Road, Posey could see their horrific circumstances. To the south, there was a more or less thinned out line of Confederate troops. Across the field? By sheer volume of fire there HAD to be far more forces in the Federal lines. Hardly a surprise. They ARE fighting for their homes, after all. God help us! Interior lines, more artillery. They even have good cavalry for once! While Stuart's just joyriding, if he's lucky.

Mahone's scrabbling with a few sharpshooters to the north of us, I see. We're linked up with Wright, so if Hood and McLaws are where they should be, the attack should be in motion. Yet I don't even see any of our boys ON the ridge, never mind forcing the Yankees off! Unless the Yankees summon up a whole mess of the "yellowbellies", we're gonna run out of daylight!
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  #149  
Old May 8th, 2010, 11:17 AM
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6PM to 7PM The Second Day

Grant's Headquarters


Just North of Meade's HQ

As the sun continued to lower to the horizon, numerous staff officers seemed to hover, as if expecting General Grant to suddenly explode with a symphony of orders for his troops. As Grant continued smoking his cigar, and whittling, he looked upon them. They don't understand. It's not "my army". It's Meade's. Until he gives me reason to think otherwise.

So far, it's only been insubordination in the ranks, and defensive obsessions. Anyone commanding THIS army will have to deal with both of those problems. After Pleasanton and Sickles, it looks like he's got the insubordination under control.

But defensiveness? Well, the Pipe Creek Line may have been a better idea tactically, but strategically it required Lee to do what WE wanted. When has he ever done that? Hmmm. I would have to say...today. Grant took a long puff on his latest cigar and ordered up supper.
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  #150  
Old May 8th, 2010, 11:44 AM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by 67th Tigers View Post
The Medal of Honor was for enlisted personnel only until the 1890's. ACW officers had to apply in the 1890's for them.
This is an ATL. The story in this case is apocryphal, but only in timing. Your writing, as it so often does, uses language to imply that minute error is in fact outright fantasy. This Medal of Honor winner was in fact very real and chronologically was the very first to earn the MOH in terms of the date of the action cited. Nonetheless, I have deleted it.
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  #151  
Old May 8th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Hyperion Hyperion is offline
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Please ignore 67th Tigers post

He gave you incorrect information.

Funny what a few minutes of actually doing research will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_A%E2%80%93F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_G%E2%80%93L

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_M%E2%80%93P

These links are lists of known Medal of Honor recipients during the American Civil War.

Among the recipients, there are multiple lieutenants, captains, at least two majors, a couple of colonels, and at least one brigadier general.
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  #152  
Old May 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
He gave you incorrect information.

Funny what a few minutes of actually doing research will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_A%E2%80%93F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_G%E2%80%93L

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_M%E2%80%93P

These links are lists of known Medal of Honor recipients during the American Civil War.

Among the recipients, there are multiple lieutenants, captains, at least two majors, a couple of colonels, and at least one brigadier general.
Hyperion, I am truly sorry. But those lists are misleading. The ranks listed are for the highest ranks those people ever reached, OR the rank they had when their deed was done, not when the US Congress issued the medal.

If this 67th wants to be a teacher, I truly pity any students who ever fall under his control. I knew a history teacher like him. A true believer in "Instruction by negative reinforcement". Thankfully, I never had him. He was teaching the 2nd tier level of history students. I was in the AP European and US History classes. Amusingly, a local writer infiltrated my old alma mater. He passed himself off as a transfer student in his senior year (high school) just so he could write a book about the class of 1980. My own sister was in his "class". The history teacher was totally mendacious, making up facts as he went along when ever his prejudices collided with brutal reality. Since his own education was so far above that of B and C level high school students, they just didn't have the knowledge to effectively challenge this charlatan.

But when it came to Nixon, and the "Coach" claiming the only thing Nixon did wrong was get caught, the author was pleasantly pleased to see that for once the "Coach" (He identified the teacher as an instructor who also taught physical ed. Anyone in the school reading the book would instantly know no phys ed teacher teaches anything else.) couldn't bamboozle his students. Not only the "Brains" but the jocks, the burn-outs, even the sweathogs objected. Once again, he used superior education to advance his agenda, propagandizing and calling it a learning process. As all the students condemned Nixon as a proven criminal (they were right), he challenged them: "Where is your proof? Tell me exactly what he did wrong?" The children of course were eight to nine years old at the time of the Watergate break-in. They could hardly be expected to know minute details. Which is what the "Coach" was counting on.

It was at this moment he would start filling their heads with his own "theories" on the matter, but the author had had enough. "He authorized the coverup. He practically planned it. He conducted an illegal war in Cambodia. And he filled the White House with criminals. That's all I can think of off the top of my head." The "Coach" responded "Oh yeah, wise guy? If he did all that, why did President Ford pardon him?" The author:"If he didn't do all those things, why did he need to be pardoned at all?" Just in that instant, the bell rang.
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  #153  
Old May 9th, 2010, 12:21 AM
67th Tigers 67th Tigers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
He gave you incorrect information.

Funny what a few minutes of actually doing research will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_A%E2%80%93F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_G%E2%80%93L

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s:_M%E2%80%93P

These links are lists of known Medal of Honor recipients during the American Civil War.

Among the recipients, there are multiple lieutenants, captains, at least two majors, a couple of colonels, and at least one brigadier general.
All of which were awarded post facto in the 1890's after the rules were changed. Chamberlain's, for example, was awarded in 1893.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The United States Congress
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President of the United States be, and he is hereby, authorized to cause two thousand "medals of honor" to be prepared with suitable emblematic devices, and to direct that the same be presented, in the name of the Congress, to such non-commissioned officers and privates as shall most distinguish themselves by their gallantry in action, and other soldier-like qualities, during the present insurrection.
Enough said.

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Originally Posted by userton2020
67th wants to be a teacher
Ahem, PGCE...
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  #154  
Old May 9th, 2010, 05:12 AM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Ahem, PGCE...
Like I said, God help them. This forum is NOT your classroom. People are on this site to read, write, learn, and exchange ideas. They are NOT here to be dressed down by a frustrated would be Mister Chips!
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  #155  
Old May 9th, 2010, 07:17 AM
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May I have some water?

7PM to Nightfall (Sundown at 7:30PM)


The Second Day


Summit of the Big Round Top


"Sir, we have to drive them off now. Otherwise the men will be facing pointblank sniper fire and have no way to respond." Chamberlain looked at Rice, pleadingly. "I quite agree, Chamberlain, my boys will fix bayonets and go in with you. It looks like we don't have time to completely reorganize, so I'll just send my companies A through D to your left flank. You lead the charge there. I'll lead the rest of my men with your right flank going downhill there. It won't be pretty.It won't be fast, but it is getting darker. The Rebs can't be ready for us, not now. They just CAN'T be expecting us. All right! Chamberlain, I'll hold the north hinge of these old 2nd Mainers you picked up while my second in command, Lieutenant Colonel Freeman Connor, will take the far right end of the flank."

Though he would never show it, Chamberlain was greatly relieved to hear this. Not for nothing was Colonel James C. Rice known as "Old Crazy". No one could challenge his courage, but in heavy combat he tended to go a little berserk. All very well for a Viking, thought Chamberlain, but not what you want from a regimental/brigade commander! On the hinge of the right-center, he will command the main assault from the right going down the hill.

"If you have no objection, sir, I'll send Captain Ellis to the farthest left point to lead the swing around from the left. I can trust Ellis to do his job, sir. I'll hold the hinge of the left-center". "Very good, Chamberlain, now let us all do our parts." As Rice finished, he quickly made his way to the right.

Chamberlain looked around. Sure enough, there was Tom, a few feet away. As always.

The men had known their assignments for long enough that everyone was ready. As the buglers sounded, Ellis (20th Maine XO) and Connor(44th New York XO) yelled their charge, and the men stepped lively. The 44th New Yorkers moved just a little faster than the 20th Mainers, but then they were more rested. Men seemed to be falling more from the steep gradient than from enemy fire. The two regiments, intermingled, all sense of unit order lost, came upon the enemy with reckless speed, just wanting the battle to be over. The men got a sense of themselves as a living wave, driving the enemy before them. As the lines straightened out, the sound "CHARGE!!" cried out from Chamberlain and Rice.

Even as the men moved forward, the battle on Big Round Top showed that lady luck was dealing a good hand for the Yankees this evening. As the 15th Alabama was falling back, down, away, and to the southwest of the Union troops, a company of ghosts appeared. The long lost Company B of the 20th Maine, thought destroyed, rose up from a secluded low wall of stones and fired a volley on the Rebs from their flank and rear. Whatever fight that was left in the 15th Alabama evaporated. Those who could, dropped their rifles and ran all out to the northwest, hoping to reach their own lines on Seminary Ridge (they had a long way to go). Those who could not, surrendered at once.

Even as this was going on at the absolute left flank of the Army of the Potomac, things nearby were going on. Things that showed that lady luck was still dealing, and there was a joker in the deck. As Rice brought his men around, he found the terrain more problematical for him. The 47th Alabama was retreating, but making his men pay dearly for it. 'Damn it!' he thought. 'How can they go on after everything they must have gone through? The 20th Maine boys with me are at their limit! How much more can I ask of them?' But as these thoughts rumbled through Rice's head he noticed something. The Rebels to the far right seemed to be retreating much more quickly than the others. What's going on?'

"FIRE!!" The loud voice of Colonel Strong Vincent roared over his own men as the sounds of battle competed to drown him out. The rest of the Third Brigade, First Division, V Corps, had, finally, ARRIVED! Vincent's commands designed more to encourage his men than anything else. The thickness of these woods mitigated any real effect of mass fire.

But the very same woods that served to mask the movements and numbers of the Rebel regiments had done the same for Vincent's Brigade. Vincent had already spoken to the 16th Michigan's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Norval E. Welch. Welch had been told to follow the worn paths in front of them. It would mean either they were coming up behind the Rebels or right into the rest of the brigade's defenses. It was obvious that the Michigan boys were now coming into contact with the enemy, who appeared badly surprised. Colonel Vincent could see the opportunity here. "Captain Woodward!" Vincent called out. Captain Woodward, commander of the 83rd Pennsylvanvia, turned to see his colonel coming. "I want your men to start forming to Welch's right. If at all possible try to scale the hill from Welch's flank. I need to know what's up there, friend or foe, clear?" "Yessir!" "Alright, if the enemy holds the heights, they cannot hold it with great force, and we cannot allow them to stay. We MUST take the summit back if they have taken it. Now go!" Woodward saluted and left, getting his men through the woods of Big Round Top. Vincent looked up the hill, with determination and anger in equal measure.

As Vincent's two regiments were going over Big Round Top, the most curious thing started happening. Rebels, singly at first, then in twos, fives, then as much as a dozen at once came running through the trees, most without their guns! As soon as they saw Vincent's men, rifles out and fresh for battle, they quickly surrendered. They seemed most concerned not with fighting, and not with getting rations (common enough with surrendering Rebs), but with water! Well fed thirsty rebels? But as he thought about it, the Rebs were always on the defensive up to now, sitting on riverlines! No water problems there. Daylight was slowly fading away. As Vincent's men began rounding up the prisoners, he looked up into the trees, growing more confident about what he would find up there at the top...
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  #156  
Old May 10th, 2010, 08:38 PM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Counting the cost

7PM to Nightfall (Sundown at 7:30PM) The Second Day

Little Round Top

V Corps Headquarters

"Well, Barnes, (Brigadier General James Barnes, CO First Division) it's obvious the fight's out of them." spoke General Sykes. "Yes, sir. It's too bad this hill is keeping us from joining the battle down on the ridge." said Barnes. "With what little daylight we have left, I have to agree. We'd be shooting our own boys down there, soon enough." "General Barnes, until Vincent's Brigade returns, just consider Weed's Brigade from 2nd Division to be yours now. No reason to maintain a 'final reserve' when it's plain the battle's ending for the day. Weed's already been told his brigade is under your direct command."

Barnes nodded, and said: "The boys have been keeping it hot all the live long day sir. It sure is a good thing the supply trains aren't far away." "Well, Barnes, the trains aren't far from anywhere what with the way we're practically crammed all together. I don't know if it's luck, Meade, Grant, or maybe Lee just feeling his oats too much, but at this end anyway, we have had a good day, a very good day indeed." "Except for Crawford's Division, sir." Now looking much more solemn, Sykes responded: "Yes, there is that." Both men looked down in the direction of the direction of the Devil's Den, sadness in their eyes.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:07 PM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Time is running out

7PM to Nightfall (Sundown at 7:30PM) The Second Day

Behind Cemetery Ridge

III Corps Headquarters

Sickles could see it. Hood and McLaws were strung out from Little Round Top over the Peach Orchard Ridge and the Emmittsburg Road. They had driven forward to take the approaches to Cemetery Ridge. Fully engaged with his III Corps in their front. A division of VI Corps and parts of V Corps (he couldn't tell how much) to their south. The rest of VI Corps to their north. Hood was still getting enfilade fire from the Little Round Top.

'What a magnificent sight', Sickles thought. 'If only we had more daylight!' But Sickles had had all he could stand from these damnable West Pointers! His latest orders had been to launch a local counterattack to drive the enemy off Cemetery Ridge, but Sickles wasn't settling for any half-measures!

"Send messages to Humphreys and Birney! The whole line will advance! I want runners to go to south to tell those VI Corps boys if they want to help finish off Sam Hood they are most welcome to join in! I want even more runners to go up the pike to tell Uncle John Sedgwick that whatever his orders, he's got a God-given chance to destroy McLaws once and for all! NOW MOVE!" As Sickles looked at the enemy, all he could think of was:'Dear God, just a little more time. Please, is that too much to ask?'
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  #158  
Old May 10th, 2010, 09:23 PM
usertron2020 usertron2020 is offline
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Time to sleep

7PM to Nightfall (Sundown at 7:30PM) The Second Day

Hood's Division

Law's Brigade

His orders were simple. The division was falling back. He was to refuse the line as long as possible to prevent the enemy from breaking the flank. 'Dear God, my brigade is melting away. Two regiments disappeared, the rest have done the work of a division this day. The only favorable factor we have in this battle now is the fading sun. Well, whatever else happens this day, no one can say THIS brigade has not done its' utmost!'

As the rest of the division started falling back, he was able to order his own surviving regiments to bend back over Peach Orchard Ridge, giving them some cover from the enemy in front, and the enfilade fire from the Rocky hill seemed to stop entirely (perhaps they found richer targets?). The men fell down behind the ridge to find what cover they could, as the merciful peace of darkness began to descend upon them.
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  #159  
Old May 11th, 2010, 12:58 AM
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Keep it coming!

Really enjoying the story! Wish there was some way I could help you with some maps. Think they would be very interesting.
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Old May 12th, 2010, 05:47 AM
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Here they come!

7PM to Nightfall (Sundown at 7:30PM)

The Second Day

Hood's Division

Robertson's (Texas) Brigade

'Bad enough we're retreatin', but to the likes of Sickles!? I suppose that's not completely true, we've got a good part of VI Corps up against us too, so I guess maybe there's less shame in that. But when did the Texas Brigade EVER have to retreat?' The thoughts were driving through Robertson's mind as his men marched away from the enemy, as always showing good order.

After all the fighting to drive thru the rocks, link up with Law, turn around and get up Plum Run, and assault the ridge, the Texas Brigade was fading away. Too much had been asked this day. The men were keeping a decent pace, but they were done this day.

As Robertson looked back, he saw the Yankees closing their lines, straightening out and charging their rifles. 'Oh no, boys, not now. You're too late...' "At the double-quick, MARCH!" Robertson's orders were quickly conveyed through out the brigade, it wasn't hard to figure out why they were given.
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