The NextGen OTL Worlda Series

[Gryphon]

One small bug I've noticed with some versions of MSPaint, re: the 'not recognizing colors are the same color,' is that if you copy and paste sections around, it sometimes parses the pasted part as separate and won't fill even if it's the exact color- you can usually fix this by just selecting the whole image and cut/paste, so now the whole thing is pasted and colors work the same again.

(As for 'why use Paint when PDN exists,' you don't use a Maserati to haul dirt and rocks when you have a truck. I can do everything I do in Paint on PDN, but why would I do it in PDN when Paint does everything I need to do to make a worlda map, with way less effort?)

 

[FasterThanRaito]

try again with these buttons and don't forget about layers

 

[iori]

try again with these buttons and don't forget about layers


View attachment 904768

I honestly don't understand why it doesn't have that as the default setting for it, with the only toggle needing to be worried about being local or global fill; I get annoyed every time I got to change a color globally and then have to change those settings each time.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

My first guess is you forgot to turn off anti-aliasing and color spill. the fill tool works perfectly pixel by pixel and with exact value RBG colors at 0% error tolerance

That's my whole point. Why do I need to do any of that? Why does it not just perform its most basic function right off the bat?

try again with these buttons and don't forget about layers

I don't want to mess with layers. They're unnecessary for the basic things I'm trying to accomplish. I also already had tolerance set to 0% but it still bled over, turning the hard black borders into various shades of brown.

Edit: Okay, explain to me why, after messing with those settings, paint-dropping Italian green fills France with...a dark blue colour that exists nowhere on the map?

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Another area where MS Paint proves to be superior is that I can open multiple MS Paint windows and copy-paste segments from one to another. Can't open a new window on PDN, or at least not in the simple way you can on MS Paint. So what am I supposed to do if I want to easily switch between a colour palette and the map, or copy-paste a small segment of border to trace? Add everything to the one screen and zoom in and out constantly? Try and figure out how the hell layers work?

Edit: Actually, that part I figured out, but where I'm lost again is with 'transparent selection'. For example, in MS Paint, if I wanted to copy over, say, some of the internal borders of the German Empire from the 1900 basemap into the 1914 basemap where they don't exist, I could recolour everything I didn't want to copy white, make sure white was the secondary colour on the 1914 map, then paste with 'transparent selection' turned on, which would allow me to simply place the pasted borders onto the 1914 map without any issue. It seems this option either isn't present or is hidden in PDN, as when I copy from one map to another the copied selection over-writes where I place it in the new map with aliased pixels.

EditEdit: Finally, it's super annoying that the paint dropper doesn't default back to the last tool used after it's been used. E.g. if I go from 'pencil' to 'paintdropper' in MS Paint, after selecting a new colour it switches back to 'pencil' on its own. Much smoother.

 

[Entrerriano]

Edit: Okay, explain to me why, after messing with those settings, paint-dropping Italian green fills France with...a dark blue colour that exists nowhere on the map?

Have you changed the opacity of the fill tool? It looks like the opacity has been lowered. Also, you still seem to have anti-aliasing on which is messing up the borders by spilling over.

Edit: Actually, that part I figured out, but where I'm lost again is with 'transparent selection'. For example, in MS Paint, if I wanted to copy over, say, some of the internal borders of the German Empire from the 1900 basemap into the 1914 basemap where they don't exist, I could recolour everything I didn't want to copy white, make sure white was the secondary colour on the 1914 map, then paste with 'transparent selection' turned on, which would allow me to simply place the pasted borders onto the 1914 map without any issue. It seems this option either isn't present or is hidden in PDN, as when I copy from one map to another the copied selection over-writes where I place it in the new map with aliased pixels.

I haven't used PDN in a while now, but I don't think it's possible on PDN unless you select only the pixels you want to copy (which can be done by selecting a rectangle and then using the magic wand tool holding ALT on the whited out part) or you paste into a new layer which you then merge down after you are done with the paste.

Ultimately you don't have to switch to PDN, especially if you don't think you need it. On your issues with MSPaint, I can't really help as I have never used the modern MSPaint app (only ever used the WinXP version). I have just tested pasting the 1914 image into MSPaint however, and it seems to work just fine.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I have just tested pasting the 1914 image into MSPaint however, and it seems to work just fine.

Exactly, I just don't understand why it isn't working for me. I'm doing nothing differently to how I usually use it. It's so weird.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

I don't want layers or aliased pixels or whatever. I'm not a graphic artist, I just like making simple maps as a form of meditation and creative outlet. I use MS Paint because every other program is over designed and not even slightly user friendly (like Gimp or Paint.net).

I feel you though I'm not a fan of the new MS Paint even though I've not touched it in like 10 years or more lol

 

[iori]

I feel you though I'm not a fan of the new MS Paint even though I've not touched it in like 10 years or more lol

So fun fact, the change over from the old MS Paint to the newer one is part of the reason I more or less stopped making maps for most the 2014-2019 period as it took me forever to get used to the tooltip position being moved, which lead to me trying to draw borders pixel by pixel and having it screw-up and put them one or two pixels away from where I wanted them.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

So fun fact, the change over from the old MS Paint to the newer one is part of the reason I more or less stopped making maps for most the 2014-2019 period as it took me forever to get used to the tooltip position being moved, which lead to me trying to draw borders pixel by pixel and having it screw-up and put them one or two pixels away from where I wanted them.

I'm sorry you had to go through that man D: why Microsoft likes to bugger the programs that they don't already ruin by 'updating' them (same goes for everyone else doing it) will always perplex me because I assume they are using these products too (and if not what is the thing that they prefer over their oen product? I wanna be in the know!)

 

[iori]

I'm sorry you had to go through that man D: why Microsoft likes to bugger the programs that they don't already ruin by 'updating' them (same goes for everyone else doing it) will always perplex me because I assume they are using these products too (and if not what is the thing that they prefer over their oen product? I wanna be in the know!)

It's the one area where I don't like Progress for the Sake of Progress; I'm pretty sure the change was them attempting to update things to be cool and modern, despite the fact that the vast majority of people who use the program don't give a shit about that and they weren't going to be gaining users from it.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

It's the one area where I don't like Progress for the Sake of Progress; I'm pretty sure the change was them attempting to update things to be cool and modern, despite the fact that the vast majority of people who use the program don't give a shit about that and they weren't going to be gaining users from it.

It reminds me of when they released Paint 3D and suggested it would replace MS Paint wholesale. The outcry was big enough that they didn't get rid of MS Paint in the end.

I can understand their desire to add a layering option to MS Paint, that's just a natural extension of any art-related computer programme, but other than that it really is a case of trying to fix what isn't broken. In any event at least the core functions have remained the same, which is why I've always preferred it. I've been messing with PDN today out of desperation but holy hell it is a shitty programme for what I want to use it for.

People keep talking about shit like "layers are so useful for X" and "the Y function is so useful to do Z" but I don't want to do X or Z. I literally draw all my borders pixel by pixel. I use the blank rivers basemap and an old topographic map as reference points and just make it up as I go. I borrow from historical borders where they make sense and copy/paste them over to either be slightly altered or left as is. The only tools I need are copy/paste, pencil, and the fill bucket, and I'm a happy man. I'm so very disappointed that MS Paint just doesn't seem to want to work for me anymore.

 

[iori]

It reminds me of when they released Paint 3D and suggested it would replace MS Paint wholesale. The outcry was big enough that they didn't get rid of MS Paint in the end.

I can understand their desire to add a layering option to MS Paint, that's just a natural extension of any art-related computer programme, but other than that it really is a case of trying to fix what isn't broken. In any event at least the core functions have remained the same, which is why I've always preferred it. I've been messing with PDN today out of desperation but holy hell it is a shitty programme for what I want to use it for.

People keep talking about shit like "layers are so useful for X" and "the Y function is so useful to do Z" but I don't want to do X or Z. I literally draw all my borders pixel by pixel. I use the blank rivers basemap and an old topographic map as reference points and just make it up as I go. I borrow from historical borders where they make sense and copy/paste them over to either be slightly altered or left as is. The only tools I need are copy/paste, pencil, and the fill bucket, and I'm a happy man. I'm so very disappointed that MS Paint just doesn't seem to want to work for me anymore.

Agreed, like I literally have zero need for layers either, and if I ever did there are other programs for it; thankfully the problems I have with the program are more minor annoyances I can easily fix, but the fact it's glitching that bad for anyone else is ridiculous.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

It reminds me of when they released Paint 3D and suggested it would replace MS Paint wholesale. The outcry was big enough that they didn't get rid of MS Paint in the end.

I can understand their desire to add a layering option to MS Paint, that's just a natural extension of any art-related computer programme, but other than that it really is a case of trying to fix what isn't broken. In any event at least the core functions have remained the same, which is why I've always preferred it. I've been messing with PDN today out of desperation but holy hell it is a shitty programme for what I want to use it for.

People keep talking about shit like "layers are so useful for X" and "the Y function is so useful to do Z" but I don't want to do X or Z. I literally draw all my borders pixel by pixel. I use the blank rivers basemap and an old topographic map as reference points and just make it up as I go. I borrow from historical borders where they make sense and copy/paste them over to either be slightly altered or left as is. The only tools I need are copy/paste, pencil, and the fill bucket, and I'm a happy man. I'm so very disappointed that MS Paint just doesn't seem to want to work for me anymore.

You map exactly like how I map. I now appreciate you existing significantly more c: *thumbs up *

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

but the fact it's glitching that bad for anyone else is ridiculous.

It's still doing it. It's something going wrong between copying from here and pasting to there. When I save the map as a .PNG and open it with MS Paint the problem isn't there. I don't know why pasting a .PNG into a blank MS Paint file is causing the programme to slightly alter a few pixels here and there, but at least I have a work around, even if it is slightly inconvenient.

 

[Entrerriano]

like I literally have zero need for layers either

Meanwhile my current map project has 67 layers and I'm not even done with it

 

[OxSpace]

That's my whole point. Why do I need to do any of that? Why does it not just perform its most basic function right off the bat?

Your whole point is why the program cannot intrinsically read your mind and alter all its settings right off the bat to cater to your desire? It's a paint program first and foremost, you have to change things to make it work as a pixel-art program.

Edit: Okay, explain to me why, after messing with those settings, paint-dropping Italian green fills France with...a dark blue colour that exists nowhere on the map?

Post the whole screenshot instead of a small snippet, you've probably accidentally changed the fill overlay. I can see parts of the fill bleeding into Germany.

Another area where MS Paint proves to be superior is that I can open multiple MS Paint windows and copy-paste segments from one to another. Can't open a new window on PDN, or at least not in the simple way you can on MS Paint.

You click one (1) button to open a new tab. And unlike the "superiority" of MSPaint, it's all in one bar instead of different MSPaint windows. Paint.net also recognizes the layout of the image so if you copy something from one map of the same resolution, it'll paste it in the same spot on the other map of the same resolution if you're zoomed out enough.

Edit: Actually, that part I figured out, but where I'm lost again is with 'transparent selection'. For example, in MS Paint, if I wanted to copy over, say, some of the internal borders of the German Empire from the 1900 basemap into the 1914 basemap where they don't exist, I could recolour everything I didn't want to copy white, make sure white was the secondary colour on the 1914 map, then paste with 'transparent selection' turned on, which would allow me to simply place the pasted borders onto the 1914 map without any issue. It seems this option either isn't present or is hidden in PDN, as when I copy from one map to another the copied selection over-writes where I place it in the new map with aliased pixels.

You select the area you want to copy

You select the magic wand tool and switch it to intersect & flood mode

And then you you just click the borders (make sure the tolerance is 0)

EditEdit: Finally, it's super annoying that the paint dropper doesn't default back to the last tool used after it's been used. E.g. if I go from 'pencil' to 'paintdropper' in MS Paint, after selecting a new colour it switches back to 'pencil' on its own. Much smoother.

If you want a faster workflow, learn the tool hotkeys. It'll be muscle memory after doing it a bit.

 

[Gryphon]

So fun fact, the change over from the old MS Paint to the newer one is part of the reason I more or less stopped making maps for most the 2014-2019 period as it took me forever to get used to the tooltip position being moved, which lead to me trying to draw borders pixel by pixel and having it screw-up and put them one or two pixels away from where I wanted them.

You can just download the older versions.

Right now I have two or three separate generations of Paint on some computers just based on how I feel at any particular moment.

 

[ChaosChron]

Nobody uses Inkscape's vectorize pixel art function to edit Worlda maps, before exporting them down to the right resolution?

 

[iori]

Meanwhile my current map project has 67 layers and I'm not even done with it

See, like I get it for maps that are really big and detailed, but for me they're useless since I very rarely make those kinds of maps and honestly enjoy doing it all manually; like when I did an ATL city map of Ireland last month I could've used a layer with a bunch of OTL cities and then gone from there (though where I'd find one is a question), but being able to look it all up and manually place everything just made me feel more accomplished as well as helped me find lots of places the base map I'm using needed to be fixed.

You can just download the older versions.

Right now I have two or three separate generations of Paint on some computers just based on how I feel at any particular moment.

Nobody uses Inkscape's vectorize pixel art function to edit Worlda maps, before exporting them down to the right resolution?

Honestly the only thing I use Inkscape for is occasionally making text that looks nice for big labels on maps.

If I need to resize a Worlda I just use Paint.NET; while doing so does cause loss of detail when I'm doing it it's basically a case where the smaller version doesn't need the detail.

I got used to the newer version and am fine now, but the change did lead to a 5 year hiatus is what I'm saying.