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offtopic:first_forum_political_debate

First Forum Political Debate

Summary

On May 17, 2008, the AH.com Newspaper sponsered a debate between the AH.com political parties. Demosthenes served as host and moderator, inviting peers and political figures to the debate.

Turnout was fairly low though, with only the FFF and EVIL sending representatives. Minister of Information LightInfa represented the EVIL Party, while the FFF was represented by its party leader Susano.

While initially Demosthenes stuck to an approved agenda for the debate, he left in the early stages of the debate, leading to the debate being self-moderated and relatively free-form. Most of the debate centered around FFF criticism of the EVIL-YSP coalition.

Transcript

<Demosthenes> Lightinfa, you may make an opening statement on behalf of the Evil party

<LightInfa> Ok then, the EVIL Party is and has been the natural party of government for AH.com. Ever since the Parliament was formed in 2006, EVIL has been the ruling party. And in this capacity, we have been quite successful. We have worked with other parties in the spirit of bipartisanship to pass important legislation, and we have kept a strong executive as a check on Parliamentary power.

<Demosthenes> What is evil

<Demosthenes> evil's view on noob issues

<LightInfa> EVIL feels that while noobs can be annoying, it is unfair to completely relegate them to the trashcan of AH.com. We should work to bring noobs up to higher standards so that the AH.com community may be enriched.

<Demosthenes> what about those who say that noobs are always bad for the forums and cannot be helped?

<LightInfa> They fail to see that for AH.com to be enriched and to grow, we must accept new members. While these members may not always be perfect, the influx of new information and ideas that comes with new members far outweighs the cost in annoyance.

<Demosthenes> Do you see the YSP-EVIL coalition continuing this next parliament?

<LightInfa> I believe that the Coalition will continue for the forseeable future as the Coalition has only brought positive results to the government. It has ensured EVIL's government a steady majority, and it has moderated our policies enough to be more appealable to others. Considering the wide-spectrum of political views represented by the YSP and EVIL, there is something for everyone.

<Demosthenes> Do you see the YSP-EVIL coalition continuing this next parliament?

<LightInfa> I believe that the Coalition will continue for the forseeable future as the Coalition has only brought positive results to the government. It has ensured EVIL's government a steady majority, and it has moderated our policies enough to be more appealable to others. Considering the wide-spectrum of political views represented by the YSP and EVIL, there is something for everyone.

<Susano> “Something for everyone!” Thats Sweettalking for “Our views widely ocnrtadict, but we clinge to power for the sake of power!

<Demosthenes> Susano, what is the FFF view on the coalition?

<Susano> The FFF of course respect that every party can choose for themselves with whom to ally. Coalitions based on idoelogcial similarities and congruent goals are after all very normal in at least European politics. However, the fact remains that Evil and YSP do not have all too many similarities - instead they are the two grand parties of AH.com, the two parties that, in said European systems, would normally stand opposed to each other.

<Susano> That they have allied in every election so far shows that they are more concerned with sheer power themselves, and not with any ideological aims or the welfare of AH.coM!

<LightInfa> In times of great crisis, great sacrifices are required. Grand coalitions are no unheard of in other governments, and as long as the coalition is beneficial to AH.com, why should one complain? It's not like your FFF is any better. You are effectively traitors, wanting to give every other person autonomy, splintering the effectiveness of the government and preventing a strong central power from exacting necessary control.

<Susano> Federalism is treachery? What TL are you from? Federalism is what the USA, Germany, Russia (well, nominally), and many other strong and good nations are based on. Really, from what lunatic TL d you come? As a matter of fact, there is no AH.com crisis. Inventing crisises to stay in power? Wow, thats a new one *golfcourse clap*

<Susano> Your cronist system surely is not for the better of AH.com, which sees no crisis other than power-hungry coalitionists!

<LightInfa> Federalism at the sake of all else is treachery. One must balance the need for a degree of autonomy with the need to maintain a powerful enough central government to bind all the disparate parts together. The FFF will return AH.com to the state the US was in with the Articles of Confederation, sacrificing all else at the altar of Federalism.

<Susano> That you would sink to such lows of insulting your politcial opponents shows your malevolent spirit! As it is, at the moment AH.com is a centralist state - we dont want a cofnederation, we want federalism, we want exactly to get to that state of affairs the USA or Germany have nowadays!

<Susano> Anyways, that's a Red Hering. The problem discussed is the the hold a powerhungry coalition has on AH.com, a coalition that forms solely for the sake of power!

<LightInfa> What would you suggest instead? A minority government forced to beg for every bill to be passed to keep in power. A minority government serves no one as no one has the power to do much. The fact is, the coalition is the only way to keep the AH.com government effective in any way. No other parties showed interest in coalition, so the YSP was the last choice. And that choice has been repaid well as the government has been run effectively.

<Susano> If by effective, you mean ruled by the eversame cabal, then that is so. You do argue like any thirdrate pinpot dictator: “Stability! Crisis avertment!”. Pah!

<LightInfa> Would you rather have riots in the streets? Maintaining public order and stability is the first role of any government.

<Susano> What I say is that as the two AH.com grand parties, the YSP and EVIL shou,d in the interest of democracy, be the primary antagonists, and ally with smaller parties, as it is in most every parliamentary system with rerpesentive voting!

<Susano> Oh, come on, you sound like the PRC now!

<Susano> So your cabal loses power and therell immidatly be rioting? Yeah, right.

<LightInfa> You had the chance to form a coalition when the elections were finished, but you apparently didn't seize the day. EVIL did what was necessary to keep the government safe and running. WE sacrificed all for AH.com.

<Susano> Oh, you nobly sacrified everything for power! My hearts breaking for you!

<LightInfa> More than you can say. You would have sacrificed AH.com for the sake of Federalism, we sacrificed our party for the site.

<Susano> We would have enhanced AH.com with federalism! We do have aims for the welfare of AH.com, and what do you have? Plans for your own power!

<LightInfa> Would have. There is a reason your party only got two seats. Ah.commers showed who they wanted ruling their site, and it was a clear rejection of your plans to dismantle the site.

<Susano> Dismantle? I'd appreciate it if you stopped it with your intentionally misleading rhethorics, for misleading they are! AH.commers showed they wanted Byzantine Style with Space Marines and Airships, and there is nothing wrong with that - but I tell you, it's time for a change! It's time that EVERY style gets recognition! And that Coalition For The Sake Of Power is hindering that change!

<LightInfa> So even though AH.commers don't want your brand of federalism called anarchism, that should be forced on them anyway for the sake of change? We represent the will of AH.com, we have been elected to the office of government twice. There is a reason for this and it is that AH.com knows who they like. They want the centralized stability that EVIL brings them, not the anarcho-federalism advocated by your backwater party.

<Susano> More misleading rhethorics, and more insults! Is that all arguments EVIL has?

<Susano> And so far we have now “We are the will of the people”, “Order and Stability” and “Crisis Avertment” - your rhethorics are not only misleding, they do resemble dictators! Caveat Emperor, AH.commers: Dont elect dictators!

<LightInfa> So the people are “wrong” and they don't know what's best for them? They need to be “shown” the “proper” form of government? Please, don't insult their intelligence. The people of AH.com can be make educated decisions for themselves.

<Susano> Have I said anything else?

<Susano> I merely said your rhethorics displayed your dictatorical tendencies.

<Susano> The will of the people will be tested the upcoming elections. Using previous elections as base for arguments is hence rather silly.

<LightInfa> We have been elected twice, with our majority increasing in the second election. If anything, we may get an absolute majority in the next election.

<Susano> That we will see. Of course, as a democratic party we will bow to the wish of the people. We just WARN the people not to elect such a party as EVIL!

offtopic/first_forum_political_debate.txt · Last modified: 2008/05/17 21:35 by lightinfa