===== Points of Divergence : World War Two ===== A collection of events, decisions, policies, and so on which might have changed the course of WWII - not necessarily Axis wins, but maybe prolonged wars, shortened wars, less deadly wars, and so on. ==== Before the Storm : Alternate 1930s developments ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289043|Challenge: Delay WWII as much as possible]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289735|WI: WWII is delayed a few years]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=291578|Technological progress without WWII or Cold War]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=29310|WI: WWII without Germany ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289635|Germany and Russia swap roles for WWII during the interwar period]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=146652|A better-prepared France in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=177|Plausibility check: A Scandinavian Alliance in World War Two]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=251487|The effects of the Luftwaffe not being founded as a completely separate branch of the armed forces]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=179116|WI the Malta class aircraft carrier had been built and how ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=233906|Outline of German aircraft carrier development]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=214727|Challenge: A world war in the Western Hemisphere]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=41835|Three-sided world war]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=233505|The most powerful WWII Axis possible]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=233368|Spain, Sweden, and Turkey join the Axis]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=212938|German computers in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=224309|No general Manstein]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=255725|Alternate WWII alliances]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=116433|Italy doesn't join the Axis]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=154632|Challenge: Switch France with Italy in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=214150|Largest possible WWII ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=20433|Collection of strategic and tactical opportunities for the Allies and Axis in WWII that weren't carried out in OTL]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=76757|Plausibility check: More women recruited for combat in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=124788|More codetalkers in WWI/WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=273993|Plausibility check: Warsaw, not Prague - A different Munich Conference ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=173770|WI: No holocaust]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289735|WI the war is delayed for a few years ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=264379|WI the war was delayed until the 1950s]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=326020|More Axis countries ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1939 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=109756|WI Japan wins the Battle of Khalkhin Gol ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=273742|Could Poland be saved ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=104632|WI Poland attacked Germany first ?]]** * **The Allies attack [[Germany]] when they occupy the [[Czechia|Czech lands]]** * **The Allies attack Germany after the latter cancel their non-aggression pact with Poland (April 28th)** * **Hitler tries to coerce the Corridor from [[Poland]], helped by Russia, instead of fighting a war over it** * **WWII starts later** * **[[Poland|Poles]] manage to stop the Germans before they can take the Polish heartland** * **[[Poland|Poles]] make an attack on East Prussia** * **[[Poland|Poles]] make a thrust against Berlin** * **The Allies attack Germany in the west, breaking through the westwall** * **[[Italy]] joins the war on Germany's side** * **The Nomonhan Incident is successful for Japan** * **The Nomonhan Incident leads to war between Japan and the Soviet Union** * **Finnish-Soviet War goes different** - E.g. Finland wins, Stalin overruns all of Finland, Allies send the Finns help, the war extends into the Baltic republics, etc. * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1940 ==== * **[[pods:Sealion|Operation Sealion PODs]]** - Discussions about POD and plausibility concerns of the infamous plan of Nazi Germany to somehow invade Britain using Rhine river barges. * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=228177|Plausibility check: Hitler doesn't declare war on America in support of Japan]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=348490|Could the Nazi invasion of France have failed ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257887|Plausibility check: Germans press on after Dunkirk]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=264384|Battle of Britain - Fighter Command Withdrawal]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=265618|Effect on the LW if the RAF does better in the Battle of Britain]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=268559|WI the Italians enter BoB ealier ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=146025|WI: No Free French in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=146142|WI: Vichy France an Axis belligerant and no Free French]]** * **Britain manages to occupy the [[Norway|Norwegian]] harbors before the Germans arrive** * **Denmark decides to resist** * **German losses at [[Norway|Narvik]] higher** * **German plans for the attack in the west aren't lost, so the old plan is executed instead** * **Germans can't take Eben Emael** * **[[The Netherlands|Dutch]] destroy their dams, so Holland becomes an island which the Germans can't take** * **French use their tanks in the same way as the Germans, as de Gaulle suggested** * **Fights in France are harder, the war takes longer** * **[[Adolf Hitler]] doesn't slow the army at Dunkirk** * **[[Britain]] doesn't retreat from Dunkirk** * **the enclosed [[France|French]] stay in Dunkirk and use the equipment left for a tough fight** * **Germany manages to get [[Spain]] to join in the war** * **Germany manages to get the [[Russia|Soviet Union]] to join in the war** * **Germany manages to get the [[France|Vichy Republic]] to join in the war** * **Mussolini doesn't attack [[Greece]]** * **Mussolini doesn't attack [[Egypt]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=88673|Churchill dies during the first half of WWII and is succeded by Jan Smuts]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=261951|Invasion of Norway fails in April 1940. What next ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=164858|Plausibility check: Axis nations strategic cooperation since September 1940]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=67726|No Lend-Lease Program]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=294846|Larger American army in WWII]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1941 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=242154|WI: Germany wins Battle of Britain]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=246106|London Firestorm]]** * **In the Battle of Britain, Germany bombs military bases instead of cities** * **Germany attempts Sealion** * **Hitler lets Mussolini deal alone with the Brits and Greeks** * **Yugoslavia stays neutral** * **Yugoslavia joins the war on the Axis' side** * **Germany loses less paratroopers on Crete** * **Hitler decides for a [[timelines:Hitler's Mediterranean strategy|Mediterranean strategy]]** * **Rommel gets more troops, conquers Alexandria or more** * **Germany takes [[Cyprus]]** * **Germany supports Axis sympathizers in Iraq, Iran** * **[[timelines:Germany]] doesn't invade the [[Russia|Soviet Union]]** * **Germany integrates the Slavs fully** * **Hitler doesn't postpone the attack six weeks** * **Hitler attacks in 1942** * **[[Joseph Stalin|Stalin]] leaves less troops vulnerable near the border** * **Hitler orders to take Leningrad** * **Dietl takes Murmansk (or breaks the railroad to Leningrad)** * **Hitler doesn't slow the army on the way to Moscow** * **[[Japan]] doesn't attack Pearl Harbor** * Germany doesn't declare war on the [[timelines:United States of America|US]] * **Bulgaria also joins the war against Russia** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=300461|WI the U.S. Navy had put torpedo netting around their battleships at Pearl Harbor ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=322716|Alternative attacks to Pearl Harbour ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=331046|WI: Pearl Harbor Had Been a Sea Battle]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=235035|Operation Barbarossa halted after Kiev]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=246249|Leningrad falls into German hands on September 15, 1941]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=263826|Lend Lease and U.S. entrance into the war delayed]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=282106|1941 US invasion of the Azores ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289979|WI: No Battle of Moscow ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=326007|Assuming no Pearl Harbor, how long until the US is at war with Germany ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1942 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=334160|How to avoid fall of Singapore and the after-effects]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257725|WI the US aircraft carrier Yorktown was sunk at the Battle of the Coral Sea ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=288255|Zeroes vs. B-17s in June 1942]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=348204|British hold Malaya in 1942 ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-best-possible-dieppe-raid.233513/|Challenge: Best possible Dieppe Raid]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=352324|US deploying troops to SE Asia in late 1942]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=255927|No Operation Torch: What would happen between Nov '42 and Nov '43 in North Africa ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=249130|WI: Angle-decked CVs in WWII ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=276462|WI: US Airbases in Siberia during 1942 or 1943]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=40049|Indian Ocean 1942 - Somerville's trap works]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=302324|Western Allies' usage of Soviet equipment]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=345127|WI: WWII Balkans strategy ?]]** * **Axis take [[Malta]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1943 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=180008|Tallboy and Grand Slam bombs in use in 1943]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=276462|WI: US Airbases in Siberia during 1942 or 1943]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=244520|Plausibility check: How bad could the war have gone for the US when it was fighting Japan ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=199206|Could Rommel have survived the purge ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1944 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=264048|WI Japan surrenders early (e.g. in 1944) ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=1227&page=2|D-Day Repulsed]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=249889|If The July 20th Plot Succeed, What Effect Would It Have on The World ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=285758|More airlift at Arnhem]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=238223|WI Stalin was assassinated in 1944, as per the OTL Schellenberg Plan ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=264166|WI/Challenge: WWII over by 1944]]** * **[[http://digi20.digitale-sammlungen.de/de/fs1/object/display/bsb00048272_00001.html|Churchill wanted to advance from N Italy to Vienna/Budapest/Prague - and Tito agreed!]]** (German) * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== 1945 ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=216287|German-Russian Peace in Janury 1945 ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=279236|Western Allies get to Berlin first]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=233132|The Allies take Berlin]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=35847|If Trinity had failed ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=279064|No nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=92278|No WWII Unconditional Surrender]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Throughout the War ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=234038|US military desegregation in World War II]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=245459|Stalin dies during the war]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=130343|WI Germany accepts one of these three Soviet peace deals ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=345127|WI: WWII Balkans strategy ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=373644|WI: Western Allies invaded Europe through Italy instead of France]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=246410|Siege of Leningrad: Breakout ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=320781|WI U-boats sink 20 % more Allied tonnage in 1941-43]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257639|Longer Lasting Pacific War PODs]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=154770|Plausibility check: Could the United States and Britain win WWII alone ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=333612|Challenge: Make the Allies win World War II, without the USA fighting Germany or Italy]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=190078|Which of the Axis Powers could have lasted the longest ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257971|How to drag on the Second World War ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=164967|Challenge: The Axis wins WWII... but with a catch !]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=247421|Comprehensive List/Citations of Nazi Failures]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=291886|Challenge: Non-ASB Axis victory ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=300834|Less airpower in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=27720|Challenge: Prolonging the Second World War]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=260950|Longest possible WWII ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Miscellaneous PODs ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=264379|WI WWII was delayed until the 1950s ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=75003|WWII with 1950s weapons ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=30042|WWII with more progressed technology]]** * **[[Weapons of Mass Destruction|Weapons of Mass Destruction PODs]]** * **Germany doesn't fight its minorities** * **The bazooka is developed earlier** * **Göring is removed from his post early in the war** * **Speer responsible earlier for armament** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=240284|If Germany had won, what would its post-war armaments be like ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=235251|If Germany had won, what would its post-war military equipment be like ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=140676|If Germany had won, what would its uniforms look like by 1970 ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=220756|How would the other Axis powers fare in an Axis victory timeline ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=245465|Plausibility check: Suicide bombers as resistance movement tactic in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=340345|How would WWII turn out with a transcontinental Axis Powers ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Immediate Post-WWII Situation ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=276406|Alternate post-WWII Europe scenario]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=291113|WI/Plausibility check: Albert Speer Seeks Rehabilitation]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=340052|The post-war results of a swifter Soviet victory in WWII]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270336|DBWI: Germany split after the war ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== World War II in alternate history ==== World War II is a war in which much of the world's peoples engaged in a bloody struggle for power, land ("Lebensraum"), and ideology (fascism, capitalism, communism). It was also rooted in nationalism based on racism and social darwinism and in dislike of atheism, communism, and differing religions (especially [[jews and judaism|Judaism]]). It is generally said to have started in 1939, when [[Germany]] attacked [[Poland]], and [[Britain]] and [[France]] declared war on Germany in turn. But the war of [[Japan]] against [[China]], which also plays an important role in wwii, already started in 1937, so did the more aggressive part of the German policy of taking back territory lost in [[wwi|World War I]] and unification with former territories of [[Austria-Hungary]]. After Germany advanced into France very successfully, [[Italy]] joined the war on the German side. The [[Russia|Soviet Union]] used the opportunity to take land from [[Finland]] and to conquer the Baltics and eastern parts of Poland. The war escalated in 1941, when Germany attacked the [[Russia|Soviet Union]], [[Japan]] attacked the [[USA]], and Germany declared war on the US in the hope of making Japan join the war against the SU. In a foreseeable match of industrial might and technological advantage, the Allies quickly reduced the Axis powers to piles of rubble, and the war ended in 1945 in Europe, while Japan gave up two months later. World War 2 is often used in alternate history because of its potential to transform the world as we know. It's also popular because of the appeal of the concept "good vs evil". However, morality is not a word to be used about a war where Stalin was technically a good guy. A thread full of discussion on the German Third Reich's potential to win [[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=21909|can be found here]]. Abbreviations: WWII, wwii, WW2, ww2. ---- ==== Alternate history clichés concerning this period of history ==== **[[alternate history:WWI and WWII Must Always Occur]]** - An [[alternate history:alternate history cliches|alternate history cliché]]. **[[alternate history:German Techwank]]** - A notorious [[alternate history:alternate history cliches|alternate history cliché]]. ---- ==== See Also ==== **[[pods:No World Wars|No World Wars Points of Divergence]]** **[[pods:WWI|World War I Points of Divergence]]** **[[pods:Cold War|Cold War Points of Divergence]]** **[[pods:military technology|Points of Divergence : Military Technology]]** ---- ==== Navigation ==== **[[pods:wars and battles|Wars and Battles PODs Main Directory]]** **[[pods:pods|Points of Divergence Main Directory]]**