=====Points of Divergence : American Civil War ===== A classic of AH, right up there with the Second World War. The most popular ideas pivot around the [[alternate history:Confederate States#Confederate States of America]] winning the [[alternate history:American Civil War]] - as [[offtopic:Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy#VoCSe]] once put it, "The most original What If ever". Done to death as a topic of AH, threads nonetheless still crop up about it, and occasionally a new idea is produced. ==== Examples of ACW-related PODs in published AH fiction ==== * Lee's Lost Orders aren't lost - **//[[alternate history:Southern Victory]]//** series by [[offtopic:Harry Turtledove]] * ASB intervention by future racists - **//[[alternate history:guns of the south|The Guns of the South]]//** by [[offtopic:Harry Turtledove]] * CSA wins Gettysburg by taking Little Round Top - **//[[alternate history:Bring the Jubilee]]//** by Ward Moore * CSA wins Gettysburg by maneuvering and capturing the Union supply dump - **//Gettysburg//** by Newt Gingrich, with sequels **//Grant Comes East//** and **//Never Call Retreat//** * The Laird Rams cause war between the Union and the British and French Empires. Russia allies with the Union - **//Britannia's Fist//** by Peter G. Tsouras ---- ==== The Civil War occurring at a different time ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=73111|Earlier]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=90611|Later]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=88232|1850]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=12191|1854]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=5613|1864]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=73024|1868]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=316452|1869]]** * **[[https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/american-civil-war-in-the-1880s-or-1890s-what-happens.361781/|1880s or 1890s]]** (!) * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=246890| Zachary Taylor and the Civil War]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== No American Civil War ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=90748|No American Civil War (1)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=84204|No American Civil War (2)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270779| No ACW, what happens with slavery? ]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=149065|If the ACW was averted indefinitely, how would the Northern states developed ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=322303|WI: No Fort Sumter ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Secession PODs ==== * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=263163|Lincoln's presidency without a secession]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=279607|WI: All slave states secede]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=160037|WI: Union troops in Texas (to prevent secession)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=6451|Texas remains part of the Union (1)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=20073|Texas remains part of the Union (2)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=70927|Texas remains part of the Union (3)]]** * **[[pods:texas#secessionist_texas|Texas Secession PODs]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=240318|If no Fort Sumter, does Upper South secede ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=66975|Virginia decides to stay in the union]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=261151|A Virginia independent of the Union and Confederacy]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=259093|Border States join CSA]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=2126|Maryland secedes (1)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=164805|Maryland secedes (2)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=215236|Maryland secedes (3)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=125291|Confederate Missouri]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=76575|Military strategy with a Confederate Maryland]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=261066|Plausibility check: Western states of the Union secede (but don't join the CSA)]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Specific battle PODs ==== * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=197666|First Shot Over Texas]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=122529|Missouri State Guard more successful]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=256765|Possibility of a Union victory at First Bull Run ? (1)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=238107|Possibility of a Union victory at First Bull Run ? (2)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270775|WI Leonidas Polk doesn't enter Kentucky ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=245742|Confederacy honors Kentucky and Missouri neutrality]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=253254|Battle of Yorktown in 1862]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=262447|Peninsular Campaign Succeeds]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=219873|"TL-191 Mark II": a lengthy Confederate victory timeline starting in a "Super-Perryville"]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=258998|Vicksburg captured in 1862]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=266050|Lee does not invade Pennsylvania]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=269834|Impact of CSA victory at Gettysburg]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257458|Effect of a Confederate victory at Gettysburg on the 1864 elections]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=234619|WI the CS Navy held Mobile Bay ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=253260|The Battle of the Crater successfully breaking the Confederate lines around Petersburg (1)]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257831|The Battle of the Crater successfully breaking the Confederate lines around Petersburg (2)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=294721|WI Battle of Franklin not botched ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=258944|Confederate guerillas after Appomatox]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=185490|Alternate Battles of the Civil War]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== ACW generals and commanders PODs ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=171942|WI John Brown was (at least initially) successful at Harper's Ferry ? (1)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=195467|WI John Brown was (at least initially) successful at Harper's Ferry ? (2)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=253687|WI John Brown was (at least initially) successful at Harper's Ferry ? (3)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=242418|WI John Brown tried in a federal court ?]]** * **[[https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-what-if-robert-e-lee-stays-entirely-neutral-in-the-civil-war.440222/|WI Robert E. Lee Stays Entirely Neutral in the Civil War ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=266602|Challenge: Robert E. Lee fights for the Union]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=6909|WI Garfield dies at Shiloh]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=190158|WI: Bragg resignd from the Army of Tennessee in 1863]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=241219|WI Joseph Johnston wasn't replaced in July 1864 ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=194755|WI Jefferson Davis as Confederate General, not President ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=237601|WI a different Confederate president?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=154022|Lincoln assassinated at Fort McNair]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=329182|WI: Meade dies at Gettysburg]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Alternate military tactics and strategies ==== * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=265839|Ways for CSA to win the Civil War ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=67844|An essay on why the capture of Washington D.C. by Southern forces is extremely unlikely or impossible]]**, courtesy of [[offtopic:Amerigo Vespucci]] * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=58035|A quicker Union victory]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=292053|What would a Confederate "Fabian Strategy" have looked like ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=293451|Plausibility check: Confederate resistance movement ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=380002|Official "Did the Confederacy Have a Chance to Win the American Civil War ?" Thread]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Foreign Intervention in the American Civil War ==== Numerous ACW scenarios involve foreign intervention by European powers, usually on the side of the CSA. The most common of these is the Trent Affair - the taking of Confederate diplomats from the neutral British ship RMS Trent by Union Navy forces - instead of being smoothed over as one of the last acts of Prince Albert, turning into a war between the USA and the British Empire, sometimes also including Napoleon III's France as an ally. * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=49798|The USN beats the RN in 1862]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=57592|Discussion of the aftermath if Britain had beat the USA in the war]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=11955|General discussion of a British intervention in 1862 over Trent]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=85869|Timeline and discussion about the Trent War itself]] by [[offtopic:67th Tigers]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=105474|British intervention in 1863 leads to an early Great War]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=266865|AHC/WI: British join ACW, US still wins]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=133857|British, French and Russian intervention]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=201139|A Realistic British Intervention in the ACW]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=56616|The UK sides with the Union in the ACW]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=53408|Challenge: Bring Japan into the American Civil War]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=305098|Challenge: Prussia visibly supports the Union in the American Civil War]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Effects of a Confederate victory ==== * //Most detailed discussion of the Confederate States of America is filed under **[[pods:CSA|Confederate States of America PODs]]**.// * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=95318|On Mexico]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=86218|On Canada]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=234287|On slavery in the USA]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=241273|On Arkansas]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=259218|On the Virgin Islands]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=229293|On the development of southern Florida]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=234037|On US foreign policy]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=233183|On US culture]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=259580|On Sports]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=235429|On the building of the Panama Canal]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=116155|On the US flag ]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=117391|Results of CSA victory]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Miscellaneous Civil War PODs ==== * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=26090|Plausibility check: A "Velvet Civil War" ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=243716|Steampunk Confederate Victory TL]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=24256|What would aeroplane use in the American Civil War be like ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=258672|An extremely brief US Civil War]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=226698|The "Little-by-little Emancipator"]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270240|DBWI: Abraham Lincoln wasn't killed by a bear]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=23505|WI: Abe Lincoln killed in a duel in 1842]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=292139|Plausibility check: If the ACW ends in 1862, does West Virginia still split ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=184722|An extended TL: The Union wins by November of 1864, this produces a world where Russia is a Fascist Italy on steroids and the United States is its major rival in World War II]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=249268| WI: President Lincoln commits suicide?]]** (Immediate answer: he wouldn't.) * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=257948| WI the CSA adopts scorched-earth tactics?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=258693|ASB WI: A Remington 700 is ISOTed to the American Civil War (to April 13th 1863)]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=261120|Austrian Lorenz rifles more common than Enfields during US Civil War ?]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=236151|Larger state of Texas and its effects on the ACW]]** * **[[http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=228797|WI Modern medicine in the Civil War ?]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=196724|Bows and Arrows in the Civil War]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=317045|American Civil War with cartridge rifles]]** * **[[http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=348586|Plausibility check: Foreign volunteers in the US Civil War go on to become leaders of their country ?]]** * Know of any PODs or POD discussions ? Feel free to add them. ---- ==== Other discussions ==== **[[https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-worst-american-civil-war-alternate-history-cliche.418341/|The Worst American Civil War Alternate History Cliché]]** ---- ==== See Also ==== **[[pods:American Revolution|Points of Divergence : American Revolutionary War]]** **[[pods:War of 1812|Points of Divergence : War of 1812]]** **[[pods:csa|Confederate States of America Points of Divergence]]** **[[alternate history:American Civil War]]** ---- ==== Navigation ==== **[[pods:wars and battles|Wars and Battles PODs Main Directory]]** **[[pods:usa|United States of America Points of Divergence]]** **[[pods:pods|Points of Divergence Main Directory]]**