Zor's Alternate Roman Empire timeline

Colonists and Conquerors (1388-1450)

In 1388 a low ranking Noble named Jai Yu told the Emperor that he was willing to sail around the Earth to get to Rome. The Emperor authorizes his fleet, and he travels straight east in hopes of finding Rome. After 7 months of traveling he arrives in OTL Mexico, He restocked his fleet and makes contact with the natives, trades and then leaves. He returns to China with some gold something the Chinese value more.

Jade.

Upon his return, he informs the Imperial Government of his discovery. The Emperor, enthusiastic on what he could get orders the construction of an armada of a fleet to transport an army to get the gold and jade. In 1396 the fleet was launched loaded with 15,000 soldiers armed with swords, crossbows and matchlock muskets and with Jai Yu at the command. Upon arrival, they leveled several native cities and terrified. They also introduced some new diseases, and while not as severe as those the Vikings had set upon Atlantis, they did affect the natives. These natives had never encountered Norsemen and had no knowledge of Cavalry or gunpowder. Their Obsidian swords shattered against Chinese armor and they ran in terror from Chinese gunfire. Jai Yu also played the Empires against each other as his army marched forward. After four years of fighting and loosing nearly a quarter of his men, he had met his goal and conquered the barbarians of this new world. He sent a message to the Emperor along with a massive gift of Jade, he requested blacksmiths, farmers, priests, engineers and people so he could build his empire up. He continued to send shipments back to the Empire as he built up his little empire. By 1400, there was over 35,000 Chinese in Atlantis, and more were arriving constantly.

In spite of precautions to keep the Information strictly limited to China, it did leak out. Japan was determined to not be outdone by the Chinese, and was currently not in the mood to settle for second up the pecking order in Asia. They sent their own scouts to the new world (landing in Peru), landing massive numbers of soldiers latter. The poorly armed Peruvians never stood a chance against Japanese musketeers or cavalry, and the entire lot of them were conquered by 1407. As before in Korea, Malaysia and other nations, they were reduced to slavery (many of whom were exported to Australia to work on Plantations) and the area was settled by the Japanese. They also found there way in via Siberia to Alaska and southward lands in pursuit of marine mammals (seals and whales).

Roman expeditions were sent out in search of gold, arriving in Southern Atlantis and the Caribbean starting around 1420 after much of the Eastern South American coast was charted. These were funded by regional governors and composed of adventurous young nobles, their Employees, their families, a few Legionaries and some slaves and debtors. They did not find much in the line of gold, but they did establish several towns across the Caribbean islands (including Florida, which they assumed to be an Island) Brazil and Argentina. They also brought back slaves to the market, which encouraged the Emperor to send slaving expeditions into these unclaimed lands, and thousands went to Atlantis in search of wealth and fortune.

Roman contact with the Vikings in the Region happened in 1437, a Roman Explorer discovered a small settlement. They learned that to the north are large Empires with Large armies to the north (by this point, the Population of the Viking Kingdoms is around 3.2 million, including native serfs/slaves). The Romans do some trading with the Viking colonies and there is some concern about a renewed Viking threat, but they are largely ignored.
 

Neroon

Banned
Yes and update.
Keep it coming this timeline is very interesting!

I'm guessing that the common cause of outward exploration and conquest is going to prevent the Civil War in Japan and keep the Ashikagas in charge or is Sengoku Jidai still coming around?
 
fhaessig said:
seems interesting speculation. However, I have a major question. What about Persia? Conquering it was a major idea of the roman emperors. Does it acquire gunpower quickly also? if so, the secret is likely to spread to the barbarianmuch quicker. If not, Persia will be crushed and turned in a roman province while Rome has monopoly. NB, either spells the death of the arab invasion.

Islam was never spawned in this world.

Persia does have gunpowder weapons since about 370. Persia is really more of an alliance of Kingdoms led by the strongest one, all well fortified and maitianing a large army of soldiers armed with muskets and Swords similer to chinese Dao's. The fact that much of the area is mountinous also helps them out. There is still some infighting among them, but this has been ritualised in the extreame. Until about 800, it had the second largest number of musketeers in the world (Japan replacing them). It is a very stagnent Society and very Hierarchical (there is about 35 diferentclasses between 'mussle slave' (a Miner or dicth digger) to 'King' in Persia). Rome has attempted to conquer them several times between 450 and 700, but these attacks consisted of only two or three legions and the romans were beaten back after a few years.

Zor
 
Atlantis, the Land of Opportunity (1430-1650)

Once the natives were brought under boots of the Chinese, Japanese and Roman soldiers and early colonists settled in, Atlantis became quite the target for Immigrants from Rome, China and Japan. Each with there own image of a settler and/or explorer in this New World.

For the Romans (based primarily in the Caribbean, Florida and Argentina) there were three main faces of colonist. The first one was middle class tradesmen with their Families. The area was lacking in skilled craftsmen and there was much work to be done. Slaves were also cheaper in the New World than in Rome. The Second being poor people who came to Atlantis in search of greener pastures (most of which became farmers, either tenant or landowning).

For the Japanese it was a Veteran who received a land grant and his (sometimes her, the Japanese were not too finicky on that account) family. The amount of land was dependent on rank and scalps collected. A low ranking Ashigaru infantryman who brought in one enemy weapon would receive a land grant accounting to about 20-25 acres, a pig, a few hand farming tools, the ability to bring in one family member and basic dwelling (a shack). If he brought in two enemy weapons, he got 30-35 acres, one or two more pigs and a slightly better house. They could also get a small shop for blacksmiths, shoemakers and other such careers. A Samurai Cavalryman with thirty captured weapons could get a land plot of around 400 acres, twelve cows, twenty-five pigs, two horses, ten slaves, all the tools needed to maintain the farm, the ability to transport eight family members and a small but well stocked house (Slaves sleep in either tents, a barn or in shanties), or command of a mine and about 20 slaves. The natives in Peru proved to be excellent chattel for the Japanese. Thousands of support persons (blacksmiths, carpenters, brewers, architects, engineers and the like) followed afterwards.

For the Chinese, it was a prospector mounted on a pony armed with a sword and either a Crossbow, bow or pistol (Generally a matchlock but after 1470 it was normally a flintlock, a Chinese invention that the Romans did not take to due to there large number of wheellocks) pushing into the frontier and searching for mineral deposits in Northern Mexico/California/southwestern states region. The Emperor decreed that Atlantis was open to mining claims, and that prospect. To the south was quite a lot of development, the Chinese had converted many native cities to there own uses and had become a sight of rapid economic growth. Whenever a prospector struck paydirt, the area was flooded with settlers within a couple of years. Cities popped up across the landscape rapidly, although Apache raiders had become a problem (they are much like OTL Mongols, gathering there numbers in the desert and a few times every century rampaging across much of the continent on horseback).

By 1650, there were 7.2 Million Romans, 8.2 million Chinese and 9 million Japanese in Atlantis. On the sight of Buenos Aries stood Nova Alexandria with graceful marble villas and statues, a coliseum were once a week slaves did battle (sometimes to the death) in search of freedom alongside citizen volunteers and a 200 foot lighthouse watching over the immense harbor. This city of 140,000 people stood protected from the barbarians of the untamed Northern Forests by Legio Felix (LXXIV), Legio Atlantis (LXXV) and Legio Fulvius (LXXVII). In Peru, Wooden castles stood among the mist-covered mountains alongside Shinto temples as Samurai drill Peasant Levies and slaves labor in the mines and the fields. In California, men shift through the muddy sands in riverbeds in search of Gold nearby small villages made of mud-brick and local timber. In Mexico, the Massive Mandarin’s manor stood tall among the vast Capitol of the Chinese Atlantean Assets. To the West of this Magnificent Compound is the ocean, a port were jade is loaded for transport to the Middle Kingdom and the city walls lined with cannon and to the east is farmland and rainforest. A few local barbarians still stand up against the newcomers, but these are a dying breed as Chinese Patrols are always on there trail.
 
Greetings,

WOW!!!

Very well thought out and quite a scary prospect all told. There could be a major problem though. Disease is the biggie. Troops in the Ancient world took twice as many casualties from disease through long protracted campaigns than they did from fighting. Going to somewhere like the Americas would cause a similar effect to bits like early Anatolian history (the Hittites went and mugged people 500 miles away but they had to always come back to Hatti due to a plague that was ravishing their troops). I don't know about the Far East troops though but I would assume that they would be as suseptable (sp?) as their European counterparts.
It would also have an effect upon the local populace too. Look at the stuff from the landings of Cortez and the documentation of missionaries in North America when the rest of Europe went there. Populations were decimated.

Also your timeline also makes the armies with gunpowder weapons immune to any form of waepons that the local American/where ever populations had. What about Geurilla warfare (and not using monkeys! Although...)? Bands of Meso-Americans using stolen Japanese, Chinese, Norse or Roman firearms? Armourers kidnapped and forced to make new guns for the Americans or whoever? Rebels within the societies? Civil Wars (Rome espescially)? Japan and China kicking off against each other (this would be very likely I would think)?

Regards,

Khib Yusa
 
Regarding the comments on disease, that was true up till World War I anyway. Especially during the colonial era of Europe. Compare to Rome, they had atrocious medical and hygenic capabilities. Rome, on the other hand, took such good care of their soldiers (at their height) that your life expectancy actually went up when you joined the military, even during wartime. They had clean military hospitals with good facilities. Wounds were stapled together instead of stitched (as we ourselves have just started doing in recent times), as staples are more hygenic (being metal). Rome did sufer many disease casualities, but they weren't nearly as severe as what faced European armies in the age of exploration.
 
Roman Medical Surgery knifes...

There have been Roman Items discovered that look just like modern medical tools, Surgery knifes, and tools..we not give enough credit to the ancient Roman about there medical care.
 
orion900 said:
There have been Roman Items discovered that look just like modern medical tools, Surgery knifes, and tools..we not give enough credit to the ancient Roman about there medical care.
Speak for yourself. :p

The medical care that Roman soldiers (and the upper classes) received was second to none. In some cases, superior to even the 19th century.
 
I can't agree...

I would still like to have modern drugs, X-Rays, testing, and medical treatment.
Thanks for the Reply.....
 
Nit
the People [Navahoe/Apache] didn't migrate from Canada till after the climate change in the 1400's

Your big native Western Power would be the Sioux. or one of their close Cousins.
You have also forgot the major Mississippi/Missiouri river Nations.


Like the French OTL, & Unlike the English, or the Chinese, the Japanese have never been big at the Colonizing Game.
So while they may Conquer Korea, or the Phillipines, then maybe Java,
I don't see then being Interested in major Movements of Japanese into Austrilia, or the Americas. Conquest- Yes, Colony -No.
 

corourke

Donor
So while they may Conquer Korea, or the Phillipines, then maybe Java,
I don't see then being Interested in major Movements of Japanese into Austrilia, or the Americas. Conquest- Yes, Colony -No.

I think that, with a POD this early, you don't really have to worry about this as much. 12th century Japanese culture was probably very different from 19th century Japanese culture. Also, think of it this way: in OTL, the Japanese had already conquered the northern islands and subjugated the Ainu before they really became powerful on a world scale. In TTL, the Japanese gain firearms, and then conquer & colonize the Ainu lands. From there, it is simply an extension of that to conquer and colonize Korea, and so on. It could be built into the development of Japanese culture.
 
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Excellence... Viking kingdoms in America? China conquering California/Mexico? Rome in the Carribean? Japan in Peru? *drools* Fantastic, absolutely. However, Rome hasn't had a Civil War in years, and Rome is very suspectable. And what about our friends in Northern Europe?
 
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