Zheng He and Chinese Colonialism

Hello all, long-time lurker, first time poster.

I've been reading a little about the voyages of Zheng He in the early 15th century and have been wondering:

If political instability and Mongol incursions hadn't rocked China and cut funding for naval expeditions, do you believe China could have established a successful colonial empire around the Indian Ocean and perhaps beyond?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Hello all, long-time lurker, first time poster.

I've been reading a little about the voyages of Zheng He in the early 15th century and have been wondering:

If political instability and Mongol incursions hadn't rocked China and cut funding for naval expeditions, do you believe China could have established a successful colonial empire around the Indian Ocean and perhaps beyond?

I thinks it's unlikely, the voyages of Zheng He was more about sailing around and show how big a dick China had, and not about conquering the locals.

To make comparison the voyages of Zheng He was a guy cruising in his new Ferrari, while the voyages of Christoffer Columbus and Vasco de Gama was a guy driving around in Hyunda and selling vacuum cleaners.
 
The Chinese where not real friendly with traders and trade is the only thing that makes Colonialism worth while. You can't get the state to pay for something with nothing in return for too long.
 
They did form settlements in Southeast Asia, in modern day Malaysia and Indonesia. One could see China colonizing Burma, which is on the Indian Ocean. I don't see it progressing much beyond that. China was mostly self-sufficient. Whatever luxury goods it can't make could be produced or traded for in its immediate neighborhood which provide little incentive for European style colonialism.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
They did form settlements in Southeast Asia, in modern day Malaysia and Indonesia. One could see China colonizing Burma, which is on the Indian Ocean. I don't see it progressing much beyond that. China was mostly self-sufficient. Whatever luxury goods it can't make could be produced or traded for in its immediate neighborhood which provide little incentive for European style colonialism.

Wasn't that a result of the Dutch and English importing Chinese as middleman minority, rather than a policy from Chinese state side?
 
Wasn't that a result of the Dutch and English importing Chinese as middleman minority, rather than a policy from Chinese state side?

Actually there were two different waves of Chinese emigration to SE Asia. The first wave occurred in the 16-1700s with Chinese settling in Malaya and elsewhere as merchants. These adopted many local ways, speaking Malay as a first language. They grew to be known as the Peranakans (which means something like "those born here", in reference to their relative de-sinicization). They grew to form an urban middle-class and under the British became one of the backbones of colonial rule. They mostly converted to Catholicism, Methodism or Anglicanism, sent their children to British mission schools, adopted English as a first language alongside Malay and basically behaved like English gentry. They were rabidly loyal to Britain (the British called them the King's Chinese) and suffered for it during the War. Currently many Peranakan families are still among the upper middle classes of Singapore and, to a lesser extent Malaysia.

The second wave was of generally poorly educated coolies, small merchants and labourers from Southern China (mostly Hokkien speakers with a few Cantonese and Hakka)- these formed the bulk of the working class, except for the few who prospered or who came from higher class families (like Lee Kuan Yew's family- his great-grandfather was an Imperial mandarin) who generally adopted the ways of the Peranakan.
 
I thinks it's unlikely, the voyages of Zheng He was more about sailing around and show how big a dick China had, and not about conquering the locals.

To make comparison the voyages of Zheng He was a guy cruising in his new Ferrari, while the voyages of Christoffer Columbus and Vasco de Gama was a guy driving around in Hyunda and selling vacuum cleaners.

:D

It seems Zheng He wants to show off China's dick over remorse of his own. :D
 
So I suppose the scene in The Years of Rice and Salt that depicts the Chinese treasure ships trading along the African coast is a little unfounded?
 
I don't know if it was Zheng He's fleet, but some of the natives of Madigascar, and some peoples from Africa have been proven to have decidedly oriental characteristics.

Genetic material from the Far East was definitely was introduced to the Western Indian Ocean. Who it came from I won't speculate as there is no concrete evidence.

just sayin....
 
Well, Malagasy people are Austronesian, like Malays, Taiwanese Aborigines, and Polynesians. That's where they get their Asian features from.
 
If Chinese colonize some areas in Indian Ocean, maybe in Burma, Madagacar and Sumatra and the Chinese people in this area would become Peranakans or Chinese born South-east Asians.
 
Australia

Any Chinese colonisation by trade is not possible as they can provide all of their needs internally.

However if the Chinese decided to export prisoners as the British did to Australia an Pacific/Indian Empire becomes possible. Imagine 2,000 prisoners per year being dumped in the Philippines from 1500 onwards.


For this to work initially a complete movement (renegade lord and subjects) would be the first group to be deported
 
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