Zeppelins over Paris 1870

Considering the Germans pretty much invented the things, what if, during the Franco-Prussian War, the Germans had developed a couple of proto-Zeppelins & decided to try them out just to see what happens. Afterall there's no better way to test military equipment than during an actual war. So they use these proto-Zeppelins during the Seige of Paris...

What effect, if any, does the use of these Zeppelins have upon the population of Paris?

But more importantly, what effect does the introduction of Zeppelins have upon warfare in general - for example: would WWI see everyone operate Zeppelins?

And what of aircraft? If everyone had invested in Zeppelins, could have the development of aircraft be delayed?

Anything else?
 

Hecatee

Donor
Well you'd have the world's first air battle since Parisian used many hot air ballons to communicate with the outside and occasionally bring some peoples in... It might make the airships look too vulnerable for military uses in the eye of many.
 
Well you'd have the world's first air battle since Parisian used many hot air ballons to communicate with the outside and occasionally bring some peoples in... It might make the airships look too vulnerable for military uses in the eye of many.


Air battles over Paris between Zeppelins & hot air balloons eh? That'd be kewl! :cool:
 
Air battles over Paris between Zeppelins & hot air balloons eh? That'd be kewl! :cool:

That's why so many AHers are so obsessed with airships.... ;)

'Sides, that would be pretty cool. Ironically, this might result in a French victory, or at least the French in a better position. My reasons: A French victory over Paris (very likely: zeppelins were flimsy and flamable, while hot air balloons had been around for a while) would be a major slap in the face for the Prussians.
 
There's one thing you guys are forgetting: Hot-air baloons cannot be steered while Zeppelins can with their engines (assuming they have suitable engines in 1871). Sure, a hole in the fabric and a Zeppelin can go kaboom, but do the same thing for a baloon and it drops like a brick.

In air-to-air combat, the French would have a slight tactical advantage due to the large target size of the Zeppelin and home field advantage, meaning you have more people firing at the Zeppelin. However, Zeppelins can carry more bombs! Nevertheless, other than that, nothing much changes and the Prussians still win the war as in OTL.

Now, would the Prussians/eventual Germans build a fleet of Zeppelins, or would they say it's not worth it and things continue on as usual?
 
I've got one problem here. Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but the Germans didn't do any work with zeppelins until the 1890s. All the early dirigible devlopment was done by Frenchmen. So i think it's far more likely that the French would develop dirigibles.

There's still lack of a light enough engine. Also, weren't there anti-balloon guns in deployment? Those would work well against zeppelins. One last thing, i've the impression that all military balloons were hydrogen or methane filled, not hot-air.
 
There's a timeline on Pyramid called Botswana Rising. It has two PoDs. First is 1860 when King Khama of Botswana, through a series of journeys and speeches throughout Africa, initiates a period of unification and nationalism (and resistance to further colonialism). Germany sees a chance to expand its influence and extends diplomatic recognition to the new African nations and helps to develop infrastructure.

Second PoD is in 1863 when Han Buhler (i think he's fictional) invents a dirigible. It's a hot air ballon propelled by a steam-driven propellor. In 1867, he presents a prototype to Bismark, who really likes it. Bismark's patronage pushes development of dirigibles, which see limited use in the Franco-Prussian War for observation and bombing.

These dirigibles become popular in Africa as an alternative to building costly railroads. Dirigibles are also coming into use for intercontinental travel.

For those of you with a subscription, it's at
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/article.html?id=3368
 
Zeppelins & hot air balloons eh? That'd be kewl!

Most awsome crypt-aeronautical battle ever:D

I have to agree with poorboy , a stereed zepplin ,even under imperfect conditions, would (quite litteraly) have run rings around french ballons. I doubt that the parisians were in any position to counter this development with thier owr drigible due to thier chronic lack of rescources , followed by the communard rebellion.

However , i actually think that the germans would have one as ,despite being filled with hydrogen they had one crucial advantage....youshoot them full of holes without damaging them!. During the first years of WWI zepplin bombers were nigh on invulnerable due to the fact that bullets alone are not enougth to set afire the hydrogen ,and the holes they make are small enougth that the zepplin can easily complete its mission and return to base before it bleeds away all it hydrogen. this is due to a distinct design charicteristic of the zepplin , its multiple indipendent gas bags. like the bulkheads of a ship , if one (or several) of these bags are breeched the others retain enougth boyancy to maintain lift. There are even accounts of field artillery getting hits on zepplins and then returning to base safely. It wasnt until the invention of incindery bullets at the end of 1915 that zepplins becaming sitting ducks.

Consequently the arial over parris would have to be based on muvh more primitive weapons , even machine guns of this period would have been too heavy to mount on zepplins. i suspect they would have tried to close in the ballon and they either kill the crew with firearms or attempt to board:eek:

alternatively they could ave revived the art of flaming crossbow bolts, hot air ballons sealed in highly flamable dye are just as susceptable to burnering.....:D

Sir Scott
-Baron von Muchenhousen-tastic!
 
Okay, now this gives me an idea for an ISOT which might be entertaining to read and/or write about...

16 August 1916
Above Mars-la-Tour, France

From his vantage in the observation deck of LZ46, Kapitänleutnant Kruger could see only in monochrome. White clouds above, with occasional gaps revealing a faint crescent of equally white moon. Black ground below, which the faintness of the moonlight could not really reach. Ahead and behind him, the faint silvery ghost-shapes of the other two zeppelins in his flotilla. Such were the joys of flying at night.

Damn the wind, Kruger thought. They were meant to be off to bomb London tonight, but the strong northwesterly winds had thrown all of their navigation completely off course. They were somewhere over France, he presumed. Thankfully three of their zeppelins had remained together. God only knew where the fourth had gone.

The golden illumination came out of nowhere. One moment there was only darkness ahead, then the sky turned to flame. A blaze of light which started as a single spot ahead of him, but which quickly spread around the heavens. Moments later, the flotilla was surrounded by golden flames.

"God in heaven!" he exclaimed, before gathering himself. What manner of storm was this? Electrical storms were hardly unknown, but nothing like this encircling sphere of fire. It felt wrong, oh so wrong. And for the faintest of moments, he thought that he heard a sound carry through the dome. He could have sworn that he heard the flapping of leathery wings... but he did not have time to consider it. Not when his zeppelin was flying straight into a wall of fire.

He hurried back down the ladder, and ran into the bridge. Fortunately, the crew had matters well in hand; he heard the orders to stop the engines even before he entered the bridge.

"Kaleu on the bridge!" someone shouted, but Kruger waved him to silence.

"What's happening?"

"Strangest God-damned storm I've ever seen, sir," Leutnant Grimm said. "Electrical, but like nothing else. Look at what it's done to the compass."

Kruger followed Grimm's extended finger, and saw that the compass was spinning in a circle...

16 August 1870
Above Mars-la-Tour, France

"Sir, General von Alvensleben has ordered that you gather your cavalry and silence the French artillery," the messenger said.

Major-General Friedrich Wilhelm Adalbert von Bredow looked across the field, to where the French guns were deployed. He thought of the story of the brave but misguided Englishmen of the Light Brigade who had charged the Russian guns at Balaclava, and he murmured, "It will cost what it will." Louder, he gave orders for the 12th Cavalry Brigade to organise itself for a charge.

The cavalry had scarcely begun to move before golden light filled the sky. Not sunlight, but a massive ball of flame in the heavens. It extended halfway from horizon to horizon, and looked to be centred directly over the French artillery positions.

von Bredow stared at the burning orb for a long moment before he collected himself. Then he realised that most of the nearby soldiers were staring at the same sight, and shouted, "Forget the flame! Assemble for the charge."

One of the nearby soldiers, clearly shaken enough by the sight to forget military protocol, said, "You want us to charge under that?"

"Of course. Germany expects that every man will do his duty."

Stiffened by his command, the 12th Cavalry Brigade formed up for the charge. But before von Bredow could give the order to advance, the orb of flame vanished from the sky. In its place appeared three silvery-metal objects, hanging in the air like balloons, but as long as battleships...
 
Very intreging so far Jared :cool: Please do continue :)

BTW, when von Bredow said "Germany expects that every man will do his duty", is he some sort of a German Nelson?
 
I still think that that one of histories cruelest twists was th removal of the airship was sidelined. Hopefully this POD/ISOT will spur the commerical development and permenent adoptation of the airship.

After all , what could be more masculine than your own personal 90ft zepplin?:D

Sir Scott
_head in the clouds
 
Very intreging so far Jared :cool: Please do continue :)

Sorry, but this has kind of dropped off the radar for now. Too much work and too much socializing in the leadup to Christmas, and what AH time I have has been devoted to other projects. If anyone else wants to take this up, feel free, and I'll mention some suggestions for where I think things are likely to head. If not, I will get to it eventually, but things need to calm down for me first.

BTW, when von Bredow said "Germany expects that every man will do his duty", is he some sort of a German Nelson?

More or less. :D von Bredow's cavalry charge in OTL was interesting; I just figured I'd add a twist or two.

I still think that that one of histories cruelest twists was th removal of the airship was sidelined. Hopefully this POD/ISOT will spur the commerical development and permenent adoptation of the airship.

Who was it who said it first? "Hell with realism. Zeppelins are cool."

After all , what could be more masculine than your own personal 90ft zepplin?:D

Aside from caput inter nubila, not much.
 
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