Zachary Taylor defies death.

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maverick

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Well, he threatened to take the army and personally marching down to the Southern States if they pissed him off again...

IOTL, he died and that lead to the Compromise of 1850...

Of course, had he lived...
 
... means no Compromise. And we get to see whether the Southerners' threats of secession were as genuine in 1850 as they turned out to be in 1860.
 
Zachery Taylor opposed expanding slavery so there would have been an earlier Civil War in 1850 or so. The Union probably will still win and in TTL the President may actually lead an army in battle. However all of the South probably won't secede. For instance not Virginia
 
Why? It's a thread that was born and died on the same day over a year ago.

Oh come on -- a general president in the mold of Jackson threatening the south with retaliation against secession, standing against the further expansion of slavery, and possibly averting one of the worst periods in our nation's history (the 1850's as OTL) -- none of that sounds awesome?
 
Zachery Taylor opposed expanding slavery so there would have been an earlier Civil War in 1850 or so. The Union probably will still win and in TTL the President may actually lead an army in battle. However all of the South probably won't secede. For instance not Virginia


I don't see why Virginia is any less likely to secede.

Tennessee, which then had a very strong Whig Party, might stay in the Union, which makes a big difference to the course of a Civil War. If Georgia and Louisiana also do, then secession flops. Of course, in that case slavery probably isn't abolished.
 
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I don't see why Virginia is any less likely to secede.

AIUI, I think the idea is that, VA being on the fence of secession for a period OTL, combined with the fact that Taylor is from Virginia, would lead to unionists having a decisive advantage.

Tennessee, which then had a very strong Whig Party, might stay in the Union, which makes a big difference to the course of a Civil War. If Georgia and Louisianaalso do, then secession flops.

This seems about right.

Of course, in that case slavery probably isn't abolished.

No, at least not at that time; where the butterflies take it from there, I couldn't say.
 
AIUI, I think the idea is that, VA being on the fence of secession for a period OTL, combined with the fact that Taylor is from Virginia, would lead to unionists having a decisive advantage.

They didn't really hesitate once the shooting started, which (if Taylor can be taken at his word) would be pretty quickly in this TL.

Also, Va was a firmly Democratic state, and the Dems tended to be the secessionist party.

One other change. Kentucky is another strongly Whig state, so may well be pro-Union from day one, rather than faffing about with "neutrality" as in 1861. So Taylor has a chance to intervene in support of Tennessee Unionists, a chance that was missed in OTL's Civil War. Tenessee's Civil War history may be more akin to Missouri's, with an attempt at secession which fails.

All this, of course, assumes that the South goes ahead with secession. However, I'm by no means sure that they were ready for that yet. You may just get a southern version of the Hartford Convention, a lot of talk but nothing much done. In that case, the Territorial question pretty much goes by default, and New Mexico may become a Free State some timwe in the 1850s.

One interesting point. Does Utah also get early statehood? Mormon Polygamy was little known about in the east (we didn't "go public" about it until 1852) so a Utah admitted then probably has no laws against it. Things could get lively once the pols in Washington learn what manner of state they have admitted.
 
An early Civil War would be interesting, but not necessarily better - The fact that the President is a slaveowner himself, yet threatening to personally come down there and kill anyone blathering about succession, means that for many people before, during and after the war the connection between 'slavery' and 'state's rights' will be less clear. As suggested, no Emancipation Proclamation here.

Tennessee will definitely stay Union. Virginia will still join the Confederacy a trifle late. Missouri is the one I'm not sure about.

South Carolina was going to come to blows with the rest of the nation over slavery no matter what. The only question is how many of the other Southern states come to their aid. By 1850, though, the lines are pretty much the same as they would be in 1860. We even get some of the same figures (Colonel Jefferson Davis, no doubt a General by war's end, f'rex).

Go ahead and write it!
 
Shawn Endresen;3378684. Missouri is the one I'm not sure about. [/QUOTE said:
Hardly matters. If Tennessee stays in the Union (or is speedily brought back) then Missouri is even more untenable for the South than OTL. If it tries to secede, its government wil be chased into Arkansas within weeks.
 
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Ian the Admin

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Oh come on -- a general president in the mold of Jackson threatening the south with retaliation against secession, standing against the further expansion of slavery, and possibly averting one of the worst periods in our nation's history (the 1850's as OTL) -- none of that sounds awesome?

Don't resurrect ancient threads with no content. Closed.
 
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