your vote: a interactive joint TL

presidential election, 1796

  • John Adams (Federalist)

    Votes: 28 33.7%
  • Thomas Jefferson (Democratic-Republican)

    Votes: 36 43.4%
  • Thomas Pinckney (Federalist)

    Votes: 7 8.4%
  • Aaron Burr (Democratic-Republican)

    Votes: 12 14.5%

  • Total voters
    83
  • Poll closed .
well 3 more days of voting yet to do, go find some Adams voters

No! We need Jeff!

If Jefferson screws up early on, we may get Federalists in power longer at a later date, potentially averting 1812 and the ACW.

Though, come to think of it, we might not expand as much with the Feds. I'm not sure if thats a bad thing yet.
 
Here's the OTL Results:

View attachment 68255

In the end, just to get them to tie, Jefferson would have had to completely win Maryland, Delaware, or the three votes in VA, NC, and PA.

How about if Jefferson wins all the electoral votes of the five previously mentioned states?

The issue is that because voting was done by the electors, who were for the most part independent, there was as yet no tradition of most states not splitting their votes.

To get a Jefferson win, and make it believable, my opinion is that he should not just squeak through, but win by at least as many votes as Adams did (this is assuming that Jefferson will win our vote, although I went for Adams).

It seems plausible, for example, that NY not really feeling aligned with the New England states, would give Jefferson 2 or 3 votes. And, feeling a bit of home-state pride, Virginia would be more likely to go for Jefferson. And just to shake things up, have NJ, constantly overlooked and overshadowed by NY and Pa, give Jefferson 2 as well. That and maybe Maryland gives him one more (plus a surprise, like 1 vote from Vermont - inland, mountainous, not quite as in-line with the evolving Federalist plank) and we have a good result.
 
i thought that this would be a Jefferson land slide this is amazingly close and a Adams lead most of the time :eek: every time we've ever talked about Adams people here have had mostly bad things to say, it's shocking to me that he's winning, (i like Adams, though i voted Jefferson)

I voted Jefferson too, eventhough I do like Adams and think he's gotten a bad rap historically. There's been a couple of books out in the past few years, and the excellent HBO mini-series as well, that put Adams in a more favourable light and which might account for some of the support he's receiving. Adams was a man who thought for himself, whether it was his successful defense of the British soldiers during the Boston Massacre against popular or his staunch refusal to cave in to Hamilton and the Federalist clique in their insistence on raising a large standing army and declaring war on Revolutionary France during the XYZ affair.

Now that I've thought about, I wish I had voted for Adams! Dammit :)
 
Well Jefferson is screwed once he wins this election :D, because who ever replaces Washington is going to look alot worse in comparison so maybe it's a blessing in disguise for Adams. Adams wins election in 1800 and he not Jefferson is remembered as the great president :D
 
I voted Jefferson too, eventhough I do like Adams and think he's gotten a bad rap historically. There's been a couple of books out in the past few years, and the excellent HBO mini-series as well, that put Adams in a more favourable light and which might account for some of the support he's receiving. Adams was a man who thought for himself, whether it was his successful defense of the British soldiers during the Boston Massacre against popular or his staunch refusal to cave in to Hamilton and the Federalist clique in their insistence on raising a large standing army and declaring war on Revolutionary France during the XYZ affair.

Now that I've thought about, I wish I had voted for Adams! Dammit :)

Adams was a good man, his heart was always in the right place, however the man was unbendable, once he thought something God himself could come down and Adams won't change his mind, a good trait in a war/Revolution doesn't work out in peace (just ask Winston Churchill) the man also had a short temper and a lack of patience both bad in a President
 
You're all boring. Aaron Burr would be much more interesting - shooting people and conquering lands in the name of America rather than himself.
 
You're all boring. Aaron Burr would be much more interesting - shooting people and conquering lands in the name of America rather than himself.

I never liked Burr. I'm a bit of a Hamilton fan, myself, so I don't really see Burr in a positive light. I kind of want to see a more Federalist America in this TL.
 
But of course, none of this will affect the eventual passage of the XIIth amendment, right? (since it looks now that we will have Jefferson-Adams, from different parties)
 
But of course, none of this will affect the eventual passage of the XIIth amendment, right? (since it looks now that we will have Jefferson-Adams, from different parties)

the XII amendment didn't pass because of the Adams-Jefferson election of 1796 but because of the Jefferson-Burr tie in 1800 and the crisis that kicked off, if there's never a tie then no XII amendment (or if the Tie isn't a really big deal)
 
the XII amendment didn't pass because of the Adams-Jefferson election of 1796 but because of the Jefferson-Burr tie in 1800 and the crisis that kicked off, if there's never a tie then no XII amendment (or if the Tie isn't a really big deal)

Hmm, a surviving Federalist Party and a world without the OTL XII amendment...Sweet.:cool: It would be cool if the person who got Second Place in a Presidential Election would still win the Vice-Presidency.

In any case, will this TL have a Butterfly net? I'm just asking since I figure all OTL historical Figures would be dead before 1860, or will we just make up various people?
 
Hmm, a surviving Federalist Party and a world without the OTL XII amendment...Sweet.:cool: It would be cool if the person who got Second Place in a Presidential Election would still win the Vice-Presidency.

In any case, will this TL have a Butterfly net? I'm just asking since I figure all OTL historical Figures would be dead before 1860, or will we just make up various people?

what ever people want to do, if they like using OTL in new non-OTL ways cool, they like making up new non-OTL people just as cool
 
Well Jefferson is screwed once he wins this election :D, because who ever replaces Washington is going to look alot worse in comparison so maybe it's a blessing in disguise for Adams. Adams wins election in 1800 and he not Jefferson is remembered as the great president :D

This has been my position all along.^^ We get a Federalist America as a reaction to the perceived incompetency of Jefferson's administration.

I wonder if the Democratic-Republicans will completely break apart like the Federalists did. Even if they don't, this completely butterflies away the Democrats and Whigs, and by extension, the Republicans. And maybe this US will be more left-leaning, the beginnings of it are visible in the Federalist position. (favoring state-built roads and canals over the Mississippi, for instance)
 
This has been my position all along.^^ We get a Federalist America as a reaction to the perceived incompetency of Jefferson's administration.

I wonder if the Democratic-Republicans will completely break apart like the Federalists did. Even if they don't, this completely butterflies away the Democrats and Whigs, and by extension, the Republicans. And maybe this US will be more left-leaning, the beginnings of it are visible in the Federalist position. (favoring state-built roads and canals over the Mississippi, for instance)

and who well lead them? (the Federalists) Adams would of been VP for 12 years in the shittiest job in the US government for a man like Adams that would be hell, being under Washington is one thing under Jefferson is another, harder, thing for poor old Adams, so i don't think Adams would run again, so then who? Charles Cotesworth Pinckney? no he's a no body in OTL he got his ass kicked every time he ran (4 times, 2 of president) John Jay? thats good, Rufus King? ok he'll do i guess, DeWitt Clinton? thats a good one.

Democratic-Republicans just have more guns, Thomas Jefferson, George Clinton, James Madison, James Monroe,
 
Since it's probably going to be a Jefferson is Prez in 1796 TL, I've decided to post my suggestion for the Jefferson's Cabinet.

Secretary of State: Aaron Burr

Secretary of Treasury: Albert Gallatin

Secretary of War: Henry Dearborn

Attorney General: James Madison

Secretary of the Navy: Robert Smith.

Now i know this list isn't very creative, but at least its a start.
 
and who well lead them? (the Federalists) Adams would of been VP for 12 years in the shittiest job in the US government for a man like Adams that would be hell, being under Washington is one thing under Jefferson is another, harder, thing for poor old Adams, so i don't think Adams would run again, so then who? Charles Cotesworth Pinckney? no he's a no body in OTL he got his ass kicked every time he ran (4 times, 2 of president) John Jay? thats good, Rufus King? ok he'll do i guess, DeWitt Clinton? thats a good one.

Democratic-Republicans just have more guns, Thomas Jefferson, George Clinton, James Madison, James Monroe,

And what if Adams doesn't accept the position? I don't remember law requiring you to become VP, he can back out in favor of 3rd place and then run again later.

And you're forgetting Hamilton. He's a Federalist "gun", too.
 
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