Your vision of a Central Powers victorious world by TODAY

Depending on the terms of peace and post GW developments, there may not be another European war again for decades. Why assume that our pattern must be repeated?

Perhaps to answer this for my Federation TL: I'm gonna have a (third!) war around 40s, simply because radical ideologies "only" need a desparated population to be embraced. I think that what happened OTL can be redone in ATL quite easily through one trigger:

Victory cripples looser of the war => depression => looser begins to feel aligned towards more radical ideas.

Now, it doesn't mean that what happens OTL is a fixed pattern. It is, however, not entirely unlikely to happen.
 
Although the whole idea of France gaining an initial advance and then being turned around is flawed. To my mind its this strange Hollywood idea of warfare. Germany isn't that big. If France secures a major success then they are going to be in the Ruhr. If Germany is fighting Britain and Russia as well when that happens then they are going to be in serious trouble.

I forgot to mention that in this version of WW2, the French advances are mostly through German-occupied Belgium and the Netherlands, stopping at the westernmost parts of Germany where the advances stalls and the Germans put up their defense.

Also, Russia is much weaker ITTL. It is without its Eastern European SSR's and it never industrialized to the extent of OTL. Britain is weaker to a lesser extent but stilll the most poweful of the new Entente. So a Germany fighting France, Russia and Britain in a WW2-analogue, is in much trouble, yes but not doomed.
 
The Russians are taken by surprise and before they can even put together a strategy to fight the German invasion, the Germans have already pulled out.
This theory began after civil war...
They have industry in those parts but are somewhat weaker than IOTL.
Siberian resourses would be found earlier.
 
Well, there is the question of terms that end the great war.

I'd assume that the US is not involved, the UK gets off easily, and France and Italy are screwed as badly as Brest-Litovsk screwed Russia.

Austria Hungary is very fragile--and adding a large Italian Minority as well as a restive Serbian Puppet is not going to improve the situation. I'd imagine that the likely answer is that the nation splinters, requiring German intervention to manage. Austria Hungary might linger as a unstable power, or it might opt to federalize to some degree. The Ottoman Empire, perhaps more confident than Austria Hungary, survives at least one generation by massive police efforts against rebels.

Germany gets big, and becomes the dominant world power, perhaps in some state of rivalry between the UK and itself. France and Italy both want blood, although it's quite possible that these nations plunge into civil war between nationalists and socialists instead of establishing military regimes.

The world power balance is unstable, and the failing Austrian (Federalized?) state and Ottoman Empire would mean that German hegemony would be imcomplete.

This is all happening while Japan, win or lose, continues to covet China and probably has grabbed part of Russia during its traumatic civil war. The Soviets will win the conflict, but they will be forced to concede their far west and east holdings.

By the 1930s and 40s, some combination of these players will align against another set of powers. Germany and a tangled situation in Austria-Hungary will surely face France and Italy, while Japan will eventually provoke a general war against China after enough incidents.

The United Kingdom would probably look towards the United States for security, in spite of no WW1 involvement, as the USA is the best potential friend it can have. The resulting War in Europe would either be Germany + Allies vs. a Fascist Alliance or a Socialist Alliance, and with Germany's advantages in this conflict they are likely to win the rematch--possibly with nuclear weapons.

Today, the world would face a "United Europe" where Germany is the great heroes and treacherous Italians and Belligerent French are kept on a short leash. Germany, the United Kingdom and the USA informally keep the peace, while a Reborn Russia (emergent in the 1970s), Japan and some kind of Turkish successor state play in the second tier of powers.

Compared to our world where the USA stands above all, a CP dominant world would be one where empires and politics were multipolar and the threat of nuclear destruction is the chief deterrent for a third world war. The heroes and villains would change, and I suspect that the informal German-USA-UK friendship would probably lead the world.

This would mean a world where French and Japanese trade with the USA was minimal but German stuff would be everywhere. German culture, rich with legends and stories would not be suppressed under a Nazi Stigma, as Italian or French cultures would be, but would become something to celebrate.

Its impossible to truly understand what this would mean; but it would probably be a world where the ghosts of the past would continue to harry the present--in this case, rogue states and powers would still be in Europe...
 

Jasen777

Donor
2008: Imperial - Republican Cold War

Ugly Red - Imperial Kingdoms
Orange - Imperial Possessions

Ugly Blue - Republican Countries
Light Blue - Republican Possessions

White - Neutral

imperialcoldwar.gif
 
My version at last

Hey, ever since I brought up the questions to Hamburger about his ideas I have been pondering and imagining what I saw the world like if the CP's won in 1917-18. I have tried to do as much info gather as I could as well as reading all the other CP victory threads here and I have begun piecing together my theory (because in reality that is what it is). This will be done in a faux-Wiki format and the first post will primarily deal my intro and a general view of Europe in 2008.

A world in which the Central Powers were victorious in the Great War would look very much similar ours, however butterflies would alter the roles of certain people and the actions of some nations changing and minipulating things and events in ways that we cannot even imagine. I feel the world would not be as dark and gloomy nor as peaceful as some assume if a Central Powers victory became a reality. We would still live in a world with rich and poor, environmental and resource related issues, religious and racial violence, terrorism and insurgencies and war and police actions.


.....The European Union (EU) is a political and economic union of twenty-three member states, located primarily in Europe. It was established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1993 upon the foundations of the pre-existing European Customs and Defence Union, formed in 1957. The European Union has a combined population of almost 400 million citizens, and it has six admistrative cities; Berlin, Brussells, Munich, Strausborg, Riga and Rome......

.....The EU has developed a single market through a standardised system of laws which apply in all member states, guaranteeing the freedom of movement of people, goods, services and capital. It maintains a common trade policy, agricultural and fisheries policies, and a regional development policy, eleven member states have adopted a common currency, the euromark. It has developed a role in foreign policy, representing its members in the World Trade Organisation, at G10 summits and at the League of Nations. Twelve EU countries are members of the Warsaw Pct. It has developed a role in justice and home affairs, including the abolition of passport control between many member states under the Schengen Agreement.....

.....The EU operates through a hybrid system of intergovernmentalism and supranationalism. In certain areas it depends upon agreement between the member states. However, it also has supranational bodies, able to make decisions without the agreement of all national governments. Important institutions and bodies of the EU include the European Commission, the European Parliament, the Council of the European Union, the European Council, the European Court of Justice and the European Central Bank. EU citizens elect the Parliament every five years. Current President of the European Parliament is German Conservative Hans-Gert Pottering.....

.....The EU traces its origins in MittleEuropa and the European Customs Community formed among six post-World War One countries in 1925, the Treaty of Rome in 1931 and Treaty of Budapest in 1957. Since then the EU has grown in size through the accession of new member states and has increased its powers by the addition of new policy areas to its remit.....

......From an original membership of six states, there have been five successive enlargements. The EU is currently composed of ten republics; (Austria, Crimea, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Poland, and Portugal, Ukraine), eleven kingdoms; (Albania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Netherlands, Rumania, Spain, Sweden and Willonia) and two grand dutchies (Baltic and Luxomberg).....

......Following the addition of Portugal and the return of Austria in 2007, the EU's membership now stands at twenty-two. Negotiations are also under way with a number of other states, primarily the United Kingdom of Great Britain, however it remains weary of what it views a German dominated Europe.....


My next post will deal with a few of the individual nations in Europe at the time of WW1 (ie Germany, Austro-Hungry, France, Russia and maybe Spain. I will try to discuss the UK in its own post.) as well as the end of the war and some the social effects of it. Eventually I will try to complete this detailed trip around my world and if I can or if someone with better skills than me:eek: will post some maps to support my image.

So let the debate and shreading of my ideas begin :)
 
Last edited:
2008: Imperial - Republican Cold War

Ugly Red - Imperial Kingdoms
Orange - Imperial Possessions

Ugly Blue - Republican Countries
Light Blue - Republican Possessions

White - Neutral

Under those circumstances, it sure does look weird that Rhodesia isn't part of the Republican Alliance.
 
:(oopps my mistake hamburger, I thought I caught all the gramar and detail errors. I originally had two seperate ideas one with Germany as the Demokrepublik and the other as a Constutional Monarchy (Chancellor<President<Kaiser), I thought I had a feasible scenario where Germany became a Republic but it didn't pan out as I thought. I accidently posted scenario B, forgive me:eek:.
I plan on posting the next installment on Germany, Austro-Hungry, France, Mitteleuropa and Russia over the next few nights. Again forgive me for the slowness im trying to work around my work and girlfriend.

P.S. Does anyone have any clues, ideas, suggestions to will happen next or any critisms on what I originally posted.

Sincedrely,
Mike "Gringo" Fraser
 
Top