Your ideal late 1930s Commonwealth Military

So, in the spirit of the "Your ideal Luftwaffe" thread, how would you plan the military affairs of the various British Dominions in the late 1930s?

1. War with Germany or Japan seems increasingly likely. How that will affect each dominion will vary.
2. Britain is rearming but likely to be distracted
3. The Depression is still a potent political and economic consideration
4. There is no political will for large peace time military, so territorial or reserve forces will be a mainstay.
5. There will be pressure to buy British, or at least cooperate with British design or forces.

Hindsight is, of course, allowed!

Canada, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand are the dominions that come to mind, although I guess Newfoundland is there too.
 
Something that immediately springs to mind is the rather more rapid development of an aircraft manufacturing capability in Australia. The Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation was founded in 1936 but it took a long time to gear up and in the end the main models produced were the Beaufort, Wirraway and Boomerang.

Accelerating the pace and manufacturing Hurricanes / Spitfire's and Blenheims might have been a good first step to a stronger Air Force in Australia and New Zealand. Tie this in with a bit more funding for an Air Force Reserve and that would be a good start.
 
Something that immediately springs to mind is the rather more rapid development of an aircraft manufacturing capability in Australia. The Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation was founded in 1936 but it took a long time to gear up and in the end the main models produced were the Beaufort, Wirraway and Boomerang.

Accelerating the pace and manufacturing Hurricanes / Spitfire's and Blenheims might have been a good first step to a stronger Air Force in Australia and New Zealand. Tie this in with a bit more funding for an Air Force Reserve and that would be a good start.

That would be a good start, as it would have all sorts of positive impacts on both Australian and NZ's ability in the early war, or even just help bolster national spirit or mood.

I've also wondered how it would be possible to build a stronger Australian automotive industry in the 1930s, ready, in essence, to assist rearmament or war production .

Lastly, we need to do something to help the NZ Home Defence Armoured Corp avoid its OTL fate of relying on Minister Semple and his home made tractor tank.

BobSemple2
 
Maybe more scrutiny applied to the Pedersen rifle and its development (bit of a long term investment I know but ...)

Adoption/adaptation of the Owen SMG?
More development of the Vicker-Berthier design leading to a belt fed weapon (no browning .303)
Leading on from that greater development of the RAF .5 calibre, adoption as a defensive armament for bombers,
HMG for the Army.

Big piles of obsolescent (not obsolete) kit to outfit colonial militia and "second line" units.

Maybe more attention to designs with a view to export
e.g. Modernisation of the Pom-pom gun, USN licence production, more foreign investment in armaments industry.

Earlier licence building of designs for commonwealth fighters?

For Want of a Competent Air Ministry has a singularly inoccuous PoD that makes sees money being spent more wisely. The idea was good although a tad optimistic IMHO.

Maybe have Churchill appointed as Minister for the Coordination of Defence as the contemporary pundits predicted. One of the problems rearmament had was the available money wasn't often spent promptly due to inertia and interservice rivalry. A more forceful influence behind rearmament could make a lot of difference. Perhaps the idea of reviving the Imperial War Cabinet gets more serious consideration prior to the war.

So much for equipment on tactics and leadership, maybe a few more large scale training exercises? More serious consideration/application of the Indirect Approach.

More purchases of machine tools etc to modernise British industry prior to the war so that the factories don't run themselves into the ground?
 
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Deleted member 1487

I'm not sure that much could be done to improve the already pretty well equipped British military without hurting the already shaky civilian economy that was still coping with the Great Depression. The Commonwealth themselves I have no idea what else they could have done to increase production over OTL, but what effect did the commonwealth economic 'closed' market have on Commonwealth nations? It was probably cheaper to buy from Britain than to build up a new industry and compete, but I could be wrong.

The best thing that could have been done would be to have a better plan in 1940. Defeating Germany during Case Yellow would have convinced the Japanese that fighting the Allies would have been a bad idea and if not, then the Royal Navy and French Navy would have been available by late 1941 for the Pacific.

If the British had put the RAF fighter squadrons 'all in' in France, they could have stopped the Luftwaffe. That would mean the Allied counter attacks succeed against the German spearhead out of the Ardennes and probably saved the Allied armies. Germany would have lost so many critical divisions as a result that they would either had to make peace or be rolled back and Germany invaded. Then we wouldn't be complaining about the material situation of the Allied armies, as it was already stronger than the Germans, except their airforces. But if the RAF fighters, including the Spitfire squadrons had been in France, they could have inflicted serious losses on the Luftwaffe that would have evened the odds. Not only that, but the ALA, the French airforce, would have had more time to recover and produce modern aircraft and wear down the Germans, who were still in a very unpleasant material situation.

So really that is what I would change, Allied strategy, not production.
 
I'm not sure that much could be done to improve the already pretty well equipped British military without hurting the already shaky civilian economy that was still coping with the Great Depression. The Commonwealth themselves I have no idea what else they could have done to increase production over OTL, but what effect did the commonwealth economic 'closed' market have on Commonwealth nations? It was probably cheaper to buy from Britain than to build up a new industry and compete, but I could be wrong.

The best thing that could have been done would be to have a better plan in 1940. Defeating Germany during Case Yellow would have convinced the Japanese that fighting the Allies would have been a bad idea and if not, then the Royal Navy and French Navy would have been available by late 1941 for the Pacific.

If the British had put the RAF fighter squadrons 'all in' in France, they could have stopped the Luftwaffe. That would mean the Allied counter attacks succeed against the German spearhead out of the Ardennes and probably saved the Allied armies. Germany would have lost so many critical divisions as a result that they would either had to make peace or be rolled back and Germany invaded. Then we wouldn't be complaining about the material situation of the Allied armies, as it was already stronger than the Germans, except their airforces. But if the RAF fighters, including the Spitfire squadrons had been in France, they could have inflicted serious losses on the Luftwaffe that would have evened the odds. Not only that, but the ALA, the French airforce, would have had more time to recover and produce modern aircraft and wear down the Germans, who were still in a very unpleasant material situation.

So really that is what I would change, Allied strategy, not production.

An Imperial General Staff then?
 
I think it's pretty obvious that the FAA needed some real, purpose built and up-to-date carrier based fighters, dive bombers and torpedo bombers. Just because the rickety old swordfish put up a good show doesn't mean that they couldn't have done a better job. Unfortunately, I think that necessitate an order for new designs for carrier-based aircraft capable of meeting all demands. I know it won't be easy to convince everyone but I think the technology really ought to keep pace.
 
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Could the Vickers 6-ton tanks have begun production in Australia? It occurs to me that while it was obsolete compared to most of what was on offer in Europe, it would be able to do at least reasonably well in the east, where the Japanese hadn't quite got to grips with the whole armoured warfare concept.
 
If the British had put the RAF fighter squadrons 'all in' in France, they could have stopped the Luftwaffe.

Maybe if the French Air Force hadn't parked up and gone home the RAF wouldn't have been needed......the number of reports from RAF aircrew of French aircraft just parked up and the numbers of aircraft that were available after the surrender suggest a substantial part of the French air force just decided to sit it out.
 
Could the Vickers 6-ton tanks have begun production in Australia? It occurs to me that while it was obsolete compared to most of what was on offer in Europe, it would be able to do at least reasonably well in the east, where the Japanese hadn't quite got to grips with the whole armoured warfare concept.

Valentines would have been better, just as easy to manufacture and more capable.
 

Deleted member 1487

Maybe if the French Air Force hadn't parked up and gone home the RAF wouldn't have been needed......the number of reports from RAF aircrew of French aircraft just parked up and the numbers of aircraft that were available after the surrender suggest a substantial part of the French air force just decided to sit it out.

No doubt that the ALA didn't go all in, but they also didn't have as modern of aircraft as the RAF, nor the same numbers. The ALA doesn't really deserve the majority of the blame, as the French spent on their huge army relative to their population instead of their air force, while the British spent on the RAF and RN, yet didn't contribute proportionally in the air, which could have been the tipping point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor....28September_1939.C2.A0.E2.80.93_June_1940.29
When war inevitably did break out, the Armée de l'Air would suffer greatly as a result of the total chaos that was reigning within government, armed forces and industry that allowed only 826 fighter planes and 250 bombers to be anything like combat-ready. Indeed, many more airplanes were not ready when they ought to have been, and it was not just a question of the airframes but also the defensive armament they were carrying, with a lot of machine-guns not even calibrated properly, and some bombers allegedly had not even a bomb-sight fitted when they were finally delivered to the squadrons.
Furthermore, unlike in the UK, which benefited from the services of the (non-combat) pilots of the Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA) (of which famed aviatrix Amy Johnson was one until her death on 5 January 1941), front-line pilots in France became responsible for ferrying "combat-ready" aircraft from the factories to the squadrons, thus temporarily depleting the front-line strength at any one time even if invasion was hanging over France’s head.

The lack of modernity in strategy, tactics, aircraft, weapons and even in communications equipment – not to mention the unbelievable lack of availability of much of the hardware owing to "technical problems" – on the part of the French was to become only too apparent when the Germans advanced swiftly through France and decimated, almost with contemptuous ease, all opposition, including British army and RAF units. On 11 May, for instance, nearly 20 French bombers and over 30 escorting British fighters were destroyed in an attempt to stop the Germans from crossing the Meuse river. This was merely the beginning, for French fighter and bomber strengths became rapidly depleted during May as Luftwaffe fighters plus ground-based Flak units shot down the aircraft, which had been sent to attack the advancing Germans. Worse was the fact that the squadrons were often out of contact with any French army units that they were supposedly supporting owing partly to the poor coordination of communication between the army and the air force and partly to the outdated, unreliable army communications equipment being used.

Altogether, during the Battle of France, it is estimated that the French lost over 750 aircraft while the Germans lost over 850.

Perhaps instead of a Commonwealth thread we should really be focusing on the French!
 
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Valentines would have been better, just as easy to manufacture and more capable.
But only available for manufacture from 1940, the Vickers was around in the early-mid '30s, and would serve as a good intermediary design to get the industry geared up a bit more, plus it could later be used for training purposes.
 
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A few other things that spring to mind

(1) Singapore - perhaps the appointment of a genuinely competent military commander from the British Army with enough smarts to also build land facing defenses. Plus a Singapore Territorial Army force incorporating the better class of Chinese volunteers.

(2) Could Ford Australia have done something with regard to Vickers 6T tanks? Another alternative might be expanding the railway workshops to carry out something along these lines.

(3) Did australia have any manufacturing capability at all for artillery pre-WW2?

(4) Canada: the resistance to defense spending in Canada was very pronounced, even on the outbreak of WW2. What would have driven Canada to increase defense spending and preparation earlier? I can see Aussie and NZ doing this - the threat from Japan being a big driver, but Canada and South Africa were both not keen on this type of thing.
 

NothingNow

Banned
I'm not sure that much could be done to improve the already pretty well equipped British military without hurting the already shaky civilian economy that was still coping with the Great Depression. The Commonwealth themselves I have no idea what else they could have done to increase production over OTL, but what effect did the commonwealth economic 'closed' market have on Commonwealth nations? It was probably cheaper to buy from Britain than to build up a new industry and compete, but I could be wrong.

But military re-armament with production at home would actually drive the local economy, and help in multiple ways. So cook up a deal so I don't know, Australia and either India or South Africa become production centers for the Commonwealth, with New Zealand building a lot of small arms, and everyone else pitching in resources, while Canada is to be more self-sufficient (aka leave them to their own devices,) but also a primary shipbuilder and producer of aircraft?

So thinking in starting from 1935-36:

Stuff like Hurricanes (Mk.1 Trops with 4x20mm would be best,) an improved Northrop A-17 mark, and the Blenheim/Beaufort and later Beaufighter for the Air Forces, and Wellington and Catalina for the Navy. Pretty much everything should use a Hercules or Merlin, to cut down on complexity.

For Surface vessels, go with simplified G-class Destroyers, and Grimsby-class sloops for domestic production (build-able in Australia, later scaling up to Tribals and *Bathurst-class,) and cheat beg and steal to get a few more cruisers or better yet, a Battleship and carrier, plus escorts assigned to Singapore (which also needs a better commander, and more and higher-quality seasoned troops, as if you're going to call some place the "Gibraltar of the East" you better damn treat it better than that.)
Also, engage in some horse trading to make damned sure the O/P/R-class Subs stay in the Pacific, along with HMS Medway and another pair of Tenders.

As for the Reservists, the A9, A10, Universal Carrier, and a common armored car based off a *CMP 3-ton frame (with variants using the QF 2pdr and 20mm Oerlikon or HS.404,) are good choices for combat vehicles, and ought to be produced at home (and if possible, make the toolings to rapidly expand production and keep them in storage, just in case.)
Start building the *CMP immediately, and if pushed, say the frames on the older vehicles are too weak to last much longer, and say it's cheaper to replace them.

Start work on building the QF 2pdr and QF 6pdr, and start converting any QF 18prs to QF 25pdr Mk1s for Artillery, and start issuing 3-inch mortars and Boys AT Rifles (or better yet, Brownings, since they aren't crap,) to the regular and reservist units.

But for small arms, it's the Lee-Enfield Rifle No.1 Mk III* and Mk VI, in preparation for a new rifle, (refurbishing old ones and making enough so that all of the reservists have the Mk III* or Mk VI) a Submachine gun for MPs and Officers, either the Bren or .303 Madsen Gun (which ever is cheaper) as the squad machine gun, all for domestic production, supplementing the extant Lewis guns.

Ought to produce Vickers Ks and Browning M2s for Aircraft and Small Boats, (and make some light carriages for the Brownings, so they aren't hell on infantrymen using them as an Anti-tank or Anti-infantry weapon.)

As for the Troops, in Australia, Provide legislation requiring serious penalties for firing a member of the CMF for their participation in any Exercises, or other duties required of a Militiaman. Go to the one weekend a month, three weeks a year pattern after training, and offer a week's Active-duty pay for a weekend of service, and start recruiting, to restore the CMF to five Full-strength divisions, along with Active Duty units assigned to the various forts, and a few Brigades throughout the country.
New Zealand ought to similarly raise a division or two of Reservists, and the Royal Malay Regiment, Royal Hong Kong Regiment and SSVF ought to be brought up to the same standards of training and equipment.
 
The first thing that really pops into my head is armour in general. The rather atrocious state of British equipment is one thing, but there wasn't any understanding of how to use it either. That said solving the problem is going to take a big investment that's just not going to fly politically in any of the dominions.

The next thing, and to my mind more practically, would be to professionalize the ground forces. Yes there was a professional Army in the UK, but thats something of a stretch for the dominions, and even the British Army was still very colonially focused. Fundamentally the training regime needed reform in a big way, all training still being at the regimental level, and the force needed a reorientation toward war fighting, having largely slipped back into the colonial police role following the First World War.
 
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