You Don't See the Writing on the Wall

Prelude

December 29 1939 North Sea

The morning sun illuminated the subsiding smoke clouds following the testing, creating a calming yellow glow to fall upon the scene. On the beach the ocean lapped against the rocky shore as men skittered across the sand like roaches. Two individuals, scientists, stood still against the turmoil of the military units behind them on the raised embankment, and stared out at the open sea. The eldest man finally slipped the goggles down from his eyes to around his neck, hanging loosely and swaying slightly in the breeze.

“Did you need anything Albert? Do you want me to go?”, the first man said.

“No please stay, I could use a friendly face at a time like this”, the elder man replied.

“Of course sir”, he said with a slight grin towards his friend.

“Are you familiar with Hindu scripture, Felix?” Albert asked.

“Not very sir, perhaps you’d like to enlighten me”

“The words of Krishna in the Bagavha Gita, upon looking at the destruction he had created he said, ’Now, I am become Death, destroyer of worlds’

“… Seems appropriate I imagine.”

Albert knelt down and began running his fingers through the sand, “Yes….are you also familiar with the writings of another fallen civilization, that man brings with him his own destruction?”

Felix thought for a moment than asked, “What civilization might that be sir?”

He sat silently for a moment, then spoke “….ours….”

Dr Albert Einstein rose and then waked away after that point, climbing into a military convoy, leaving his college to ponder at the twilight event and embarking for god knows where; he had done his part, which was more than he could bear. The results were relayed to the laboratories at Peenemunde and the government buildings in Berlin.

Germany had tamed the atom.

American central forces were closing in on the Italians in Rome.

The People’s Army was plowing through the Balkans.

British and Dutch tanks were rolling pass the palace at Versailles.

The Austrian front was being pushed further into the German country side.

And the angels in heaven began to weep.
 
So welcome to the long awaited TL based of my socialist ottoman map series over on the map thread. This is going to be my first attempt at writing a TL so I’m new to this so quality may be a bit lacking at first but hopefully I can improve haha.

The main origin of the TL was I started making a socialist Ottoman Empire map based off a map I saw on one of the old map threads a few years back. I then began to realize that the universe could incorporate several other ATL concepts I had cooking my head. One was of course the socialist ottomans, another was a German space program based out of a German empire that had won the first world war, one with a focus on the American civil war with an elaborated ironclad warfare, and finally a concept for a second American civil war that turns the US into a crap fest coupled with an autonomous California. I spliced these all together into the present TL I’m going to start.

The project had several names. The first was USOR; meaning of course Union of Socialist Ottoman Republics. I added in my Iron Thunder, Vogel Phönix, and Ursa Minor TL concepts. The map series began to be referred to as the Socialist Ottomans TL.

As I said this is my first attempt at writing an ATL so bear with me and I am fairly busy so I may have trouble being regular with posting and stuff but most aren’t anyways so haha.
 

All Rounder

Gone Fishin'
One thing I did notice that needs to be changed is that the date is 1939, yet the ending part seems like the date is set in either 43' or 44'.
 
One thing I did notice that needs to be changed is that the date is 1939, yet the ending part seems like the date is set in either 43' or 44'.
I might be confused and not know it, or become knowingly confused later, but I did not see anything in the post that indicated any year but the date given.

Of course if one is not flexible enough to set WWII in the late 30s instead of early 40's it is confusing. We also might be lacking in imagination as to how long a Great War must last--maybe this one started less than two years ago--maybe instead it's been going on 7, 8 years. Can't tell yet! It's also hard to tell who is on who's side in the current war; it seems there is a German/Austrian/Italian alliance that is collapsing, but then why are British and Dutch tanks in France? For the same reason American ones were OTL because France, an ally, had fallen to an enemy presumably Germany? The Austrian front being pushed into Germany I interpreted to mean the same American force that is closing on Rome has already overrun Austria and is coming north the other side to invade Germany itself, as an Austrian ally. But it could be the other way round, with Austria against Germany and winning at the moment. All across the board the impression I get is that were it not for the Bomb, Germany would be in big trouble right now. (Considering how few Bombs we could make the day we performed Trinity, having one to test is pretty grim news if they are getting hemmed in this much right now.

Then again, how are the Germans conducting a test in the North Sea? It implies either the British are giving them free rein there, or that the Germans have achieved local naval superiority, to risk someone of Einstein's caliber.

Frankly, if I were to imagine a Germany capable of an A-bomb test in 1939, I'd figure they'd do it in the middle of their land conquests to the east from WWI--in Poland or Belarus, someplace out of the way and nearly deserted. Even in Europe such places can be found, especially in Eastern Europe I'd think. But a really successful Germany that won the Great War would presumably hang on to Namibia (not what they called it of course) or German East Africa as they did call it. The former has a lot of desolate desert and that's where I'd think they'd do a bomb test--unless they were concerned with being intercepted on the way south or north. Out at sea in the middle of the ocean where submarines from rival powers might be lurking? Strange.

From author's remarks, the real POD is way back in the 1860s with the (first)ACW developing ironclads more elaborately. I guess if I want this knot untangled I have to Follow!

Given good access to resources in general and a regime that protects scientists from racial bigotry (not just the official kind of the 3rd Reich but the casual racism of the older regimes) I guess we could have Germans developing the Bomb some 6 years earlier. Having Einstein on board means either that this ATL Albert is different sort of fellow than OTL, or that the regime is far more tolerant and enlightened looking to someone of his type. I don't think the program would have been greatly accelerated just by having Einstein aboard; I parse it to mean that Germany has been a scientist's paradise for the past couple decades at least and they have lots and lots of talent, probably most of the people who OTL emigrated to the USA.

Peenemunde, I suspect, is a bit of a mislead. We read that OTL, especially in the context of nukes which we quite reasonably think would ride on rockets, and figure not only have they got The Bomb, but a missile to deliver it on. I suppose they might; if a victorious Germany circa 1920 had really got cracking with rocket research it could be possible to have a rocket big enough to deliver a generation 1 A-bomb a few hundred miles with. That's like a V-2 multiplied in size by 10, which could be possible I suppose. It is challenging to scale rocket engines up in size but one could always cluster a dozen or so of them--you'd want it to be really reliable though to deliver a nuke, not have it fizzle and crash near the launch site and blow up to add either shattering a precious package of hideously expensive fissile materials to the winds, still less the hazard that the damn thing blows up as designed to on the spot! The advances the Germans of OTL Peenemunde needed to improve V-rocket range would be in minimizing dry mass; if you can just scale up, you can raise throw weight if not range. With an A-bomb you don't need precise targeting either, just get it within a mile or so of target.

Still, I think no, this isn't a twofer with von Braun as well as Einstein a decade ahead of their time OTL. Just the nuclear project, which is located at Peenemunde for reasons paralleling why von Braun was moved there OTL. For one thing, OTL the German Army invested in rocketry because it was a loophole in the Versailles Treaty, overlooked and hence not prohibited. Here presumably a victorious Germany in the Great War would have no limits put on conventional weapons and so not need to explore alternatives. So, Peenemunde refers to the nuclear lab, not also a rocket lab. If the Germans had a multi-hundred mile range rocket capable of lofting 10 tons or more, thus suitable for an A-bomb (a rugged one, again probably not first generation) then throwing a test bomb into the North Sea might have been a way to go, but with a test bomb I'd think it would be carried on a ship and deployed on a raft.

It makes sense if the Germans also enjoy excellent control of the Danish straits, as they might if they either were to conquer Denmark or win it over as a close ally. Which latter they might do by offering the land taken in the 1860s back, for instance. I suspect that loses the Kiel Canal to Denmark, but the quid pro quo might be that the Danes give the Germans control of all passages including the Canal as well as the Straits. If the Germans can button up the straits (which implies leverage over Sweden and Norway too) and turn the Baltic into a German lake with rival powers either excluded or as in the case of Scandinavia in some combination daunted or allied then the only element of risk in testing in the North sea begins west of Jutland.

Now I'm wondering why they don't test it out in the Baltic though.

Whatever, I have to follow to find out I suppose!
 
This is great so far! I look forward to more!
Thank you!
Interesting. Could you enlighten me about the timing. All this happens in 1939? Seems more like 1944
Yea it takes place in 1939 like the post says. All i can say is the second great war started in the mid 1930s
Germany gets the bomb first. I'm in!
:cool:
Yes but just what Germany? Empire, Republic, or something entirely else?
Empire...
One thing I did notice that needs to be changed is that the date is 1939, yet the ending part seems like the date is set in either 43' or 44'.
no its right 1939 im not changing it
I might be confused and not know it, or become knowingly confused later, but I did not see anything in the post that indicated any year but the date given.

Of course if one is not flexible enough to set WWII in the late 30s instead of early 40's it is confusing. We also might be lacking in imagination as to how long a Great War must last--maybe this one started less than two years ago--maybe instead it's been going on 7, 8 years. Can't tell yet! It's also hard to tell who is on who's side in the current war; it seems there is a German/Austrian/Italian alliance that is collapsing, but then why are British and Dutch tanks in France? For the same reason American ones were OTL because France, an ally, had fallen to an enemy presumably Germany? The Austrian front being pushed into Germany I interpreted to mean the same American force that is closing on Rome has already overrun Austria and is coming north the other side to invade Germany itself, as an Austrian ally. But it could be the other way round, with Austria against Germany and winning at the moment. All across the board the impression I get is that were it not for the Bomb, Germany would be in big trouble right now. (Considering how few Bombs we could make the day we performed Trinity, having one to test is pretty grim news if they are getting hemmed in this much right now.

Then again, how are the Germans conducting a test in the North Sea? It implies either the British are giving them free rein there, or that the Germans have achieved local naval superiority, to risk someone of Einstein's caliber.

Frankly, if I were to imagine a Germany capable of an A-bomb test in 1939, I'd figure they'd do it in the middle of their land conquests to the east from WWI--in Poland or Belarus, someplace out of the way and nearly deserted. Even in Europe such places can be found, especially in Eastern Europe I'd think. But a really successful Germany that won the Great War would presumably hang on to Namibia (not what they called it of course) or German East Africa as they did call it. The former has a lot of desolate desert and that's where I'd think they'd do a bomb test--unless they were concerned with being intercepted on the way south or north. Out at sea in the middle of the ocean where submarines from rival powers might be lurking? Strange.

From author's remarks, the real POD is way back in the 1860s with the (first)ACW developing ironclads more elaborately. I guess if I want this knot untangled I have to Follow!

Given good access to resources in general and a regime that protects scientists from racial bigotry (not just the official kind of the 3rd Reich but the casual racism of the older regimes) I guess we could have Germans developing the Bomb some 6 years earlier. Having Einstein on board means either that this ATL Albert is different sort of fellow than OTL, or that the regime is far more tolerant and enlightened looking to someone of his type. I don't think the program would have been greatly accelerated just by having Einstein aboard; I parse it to mean that Germany has been a scientist's paradise for the past couple decades at least and they have lots and lots of talent, probably most of the people who OTL emigrated to the USA.

Peenemunde, I suspect, is a bit of a mislead. We read that OTL, especially in the context of nukes which we quite reasonably think would ride on rockets, and figure not only have they got The Bomb, but a missile to deliver it on. I suppose they might; if a victorious Germany circa 1920 had really got cracking with rocket research it could be possible to have a rocket big enough to deliver a generation 1 A-bomb a few hundred miles with. That's like a V-2 multiplied in size by 10, which could be possible I suppose. It is challenging to scale rocket engines up in size but one could always cluster a dozen or so of them--you'd want it to be really reliable though to deliver a nuke, not have it fizzle and crash near the launch site and blow up to add either shattering a precious package of hideously expensive fissile materials to the winds, still less the hazard that the damn thing blows up as designed to on the spot! The advances the Germans of OTL Peenemunde needed to improve V-rocket range would be in minimizing dry mass; if you can just scale up, you can raise throw weight if not range. With an A-bomb you don't need precise targeting either, just get it within a mile or so of target.

Still, I think no, this isn't a twofer with von Braun as well as Einstein a decade ahead of their time OTL. Just the nuclear project, which is located at Peenemunde for reasons paralleling why von Braun was moved there OTL. For one thing, OTL the German Army invested in rocketry because it was a loophole in the Versailles Treaty, overlooked and hence not prohibited. Here presumably a victorious Germany in the Great War would have no limits put on conventional weapons and so not need to explore alternatives. So, Peenemunde refers to the nuclear lab, not also a rocket lab. If the Germans had a multi-hundred mile range rocket capable of lofting 10 tons or more, thus suitable for an A-bomb (a rugged one, again probably not first generation) then throwing a test bomb into the North Sea might have been a way to go, but with a test bomb I'd think it would be carried on a ship and deployed on a raft.

It makes sense if the Germans also enjoy excellent control of the Danish straits, as they might if they either were to conquer Denmark or win it over as a close ally. Which latter they might do by offering the land taken in the 1860s back, for instance. I suspect that loses the Kiel Canal to Denmark, but the quid pro quo might be that the Danes give the Germans control of all passages including the Canal as well as the Straits. If the Germans can button up the straits (which implies leverage over Sweden and Norway too) and turn the Baltic into a German lake with rival powers either excluded or as in the case of Scandinavia in some combination daunted or allied then the only element of risk in testing in the North sea begins west of Jutland.

Now I'm wondering why they don't test it out in the Baltic though.

Whatever, I have to follow to find out I suppose!
Wow... thats alot haha well i read it all and youve got some good insight into it and youre onto it is all i can say without giving too much away but yes please follow i look forward to being able to share this idea with people
 
1914 pre war.png

State of the world 1914 prior to the outbreak of the Great War
 
well unfortunately real life stuff is running into me at the moment so i might take a while to get a first update out.... which sucks
also got to get better at write ups so that's in the mix...
But on the plus side ill share the belligerents beginning at the First great war as well as a political map
Europe first GW belligerents.png

Europe 1914 pre war.png
 
Well...I can say myself I am disappointed in myself about this attempt...
I'm not sure about the rules of posting after this long but hey ill try if anyone is still wondering.
I will probably just post random pictures and spinets of this timeline idea and maybe if i can get enough time to invest into heavy writing and research i might Start a new thread to reboot the idea because I enjoy my ideas for this concept and I know a few people have expressed interest in the concept so if they are still out there i'm trying again:oops:
 
Boreal Express.png

OSU spy plane photographed over southern Alabama in 1963
Nicknamed "The Lone Ranger", later identified to be part of the the Boreal Express reconnaissance system deployed during southern secession and the loss of battle controls over the American South by loyalist United Forces
 
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