Ah. In that case, I really have no idea. Really, all the questions that plague the HRE of otl would apply, given my current plans (neither orthodoxy or islam going extinct, not controlling rome, and what makes an empire?), so the LE could be the forth rome, since for it to count the HRE has to as well.
Yet Another Roman Empire: The Latin Empire of Constantinople
- Thread starter AltoRegnant
- Start date
Part Five; A Diplomatic Realignment
The Kingdom of Carthage was in trouble. It was always on shaky ground, rife with revolts and internal instability. It was held together more by the fact it was small enough for the king to leverage his mercenary army all over the north african kingdom than by feudal structures. However, the region's muslim population was vehemently opposed to any conversion attempts, and efforts to increase speaking of French or Castilian were met with resistance. In 1302, the inevitable happened and the nation was invaded by the Hafsid dynasty. The war was quick, as the mercenaries saw the writing on the wall and switched sides (many of them being muslims themselves). As a result, the region was reintegrated, though Carthage was reinstated as the Capital and the Sultan declared himself Sultan of Carthage, recognizing the prestige of the title.
Of course, when news of this reached Italy, the papacy tried to call for a counter crusade but received little response. When he attempted to coerce Emperor Baldwin II of the Latin Empire, Baldwin very curtly pointed out that he had gone on one of the most successful crusades of the lot, re-establishing the Kingdom of Jerusalem under his Empire’s protection (indeed, it had been re-established, though not under a Hohenstaufen. Idly, the Emperor felt the Papacy should be quite pleased with that, given that he had no quarrel with the dynasty.) Regardless, given that the LEoC had accomplished this with the help of the Ilkhanate, but was still rife with internal religious disputes, had numerous turkic Beyliks to gain control over if they wished true security in Asia Minor, and had the heretical Bulgarians and Serbian to deal with, as well as the mongols… Baldwin II told the church in no uncertain terms he would not be sending soldiers, but any army that did arrive would see naval support.
This was not enough for Boniface VIII, who would later excommunicate Baldwin over this matter. The Pope had recently come out of a long running dispute with King Philippe IV of France over the right to tax the clergy, which had eventually been, begrudgingly, settled in the Frenchman’s favor. He was not about to lose his influence on what was easily the most successful Crusader State. While the excommunication would indeed cause problems with the catholic population and certain nobles (albeit, since few were hereditary, not that many), it would actually bolster the King’s reputation with his sizeable Muslim and orthodox subjects, as they certainly were not excited to go fight and die for the Catholic Church after doing just that. Now, Baldwin was not particularly tolerant, and still sponsored conversions (many using greek translations, the common tongue, though of course retaining Catholic theology,) but from a political standpoint, leaving his empire which had just made large territorial expansions and needed to truly assimilate (or at least pacify) the native population seemed like a good way to lose the most holy city in Christendom.
Now Boniface was not, as it may seem, an idiot. He recognized that having two of the most powerful monarchs in Europe against him was a bad call. As a result, he attempted to soothe things over with Philippe IV and establish relations with the Holy Roman Emperor. Well, King of Germany. Pope Boniface had not recognized Albert of House Hapsburg as King, let alone crowned him as Emperor. However, the dispute with Baldwin, as the unstable relations with Philippe IV, forced the Pontifex’s hand, and Albert I was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, King of the Romans, and King of Italy in 1301, in exchange for swearing to protect the Pope from any foreign armies. Boniface wanted to extract concessions about the Pope being the sole authority in crowning the Holy Roman Emperors, but ultimately, with sour relations between him and the other greatest powers of Europe, he felt that making such demands might jeopardize his efforts to protect the Papal States’ territorial integrity, especially while Theodora and Conrad were second in line for the throne of Romanía, which could effectively box the Papacy between the Western and Eastern Empires.
Of course, Baldwin did not want to conquer the Papacy, and no Catholic in their right mind would wage a war of conquest for the Eternal City. And while Boniface knew this, he still realized how powerful Romanía was becoming, and that to secure his independence, the Pope would likely need to play France, the HRE, and Romanía off of each other- all three were in a potentially prime position to threaten Italy. As a result, after no real response to his calls for crusade, the Pope was forced to call it off. A few years later, Baldwin would approach and seek to have his excommunication lifted. Boniface acquiesced, having lost the reason for it in the first place.
In 1307, Queen Margaret of Scotland and King Edward II of England bore their first son, also named Edward. Because apparently in Norman England there was something of a name shortage (two hundred years and six names…) Regardless, The birth of an heir did little to abade tensions within the Kingdom of England, and the Baron’s War began shortly after. The conflict in England facilitated unrest in Scotland as well. While Edward I had kept his word and not undermined the Scottish monarchy himself, Margaret had frequently turned to her husband and in-laws in the running of Scotland, which irritated the nobility. As a result, there were rumblings of raising Robert the Bruce as King of Scotland. However, there remained a large support for Margaret in the church, and much of the nobility, many of whom also owned land in England and thus wanted to keep things secure and as simple as possible. CC
In the Ilkhanate, things were… interesting, as Arghun had enticed the Papacy by stating he would be baptized were he and the Latins able to defeat the Mamluks, which he followed through on after his crusade. In fact he was baptized in Bethlehem. However, nearly a decade later, and the sheer size and the new chiristian leadership of the empire over a largely tengri and muslim population was already causing problems. While Arghun had been a capable ruler in his youth, since the Crusade, his son, Ghazan was quickly asserting himself as the real power in the sultanate. The nobles had largely followed Arghun’s baptism, but of course, the people en masse were harder. However, Ghazan and Arghun were rather tolerant for the time, but their vassal nobility were less so. As a result, the Mongol Khan had to put down a few revolts, mostly in Egypt.
In Anatolia, Emperor Alexios II was using the fractured nature of the Anatolian Beyliks to reassert dominance. It was becoming increasingly clear that the real Eastern Roman Empire had grown complacent and allowed the Latins too much opportunity to grow and expand- they held Syria, for Christ’s sake! Of course, the only reason that the populace wasn’t revolting immediately was because the “emperor” had allowed a muslim to remain governor of the province, but this was still agitating. Alexios’s invasions of eastern anatolia took up most of the decade, but were largely successful. He was even able to sponsor significant conversion to Orthodox Christianity. As an aside, the Ilkhanate records note mass movement from the beyliks to the Iraqi provinces, which was probably nothing.
Of course, Baldwin wasn’t happy with the idea of allowing his main rival for legitimacy and power to grow unchecked. As a result, he reaffirmed his alliance with the Ilkhanate, boxing in Trebizond if they were to act against either of the powers. This then led to Alexios sending overtures to the Golden Horde. While the lands of the Rus weren’t the powerful imperial core of persia, the Golden Horde would remain a force that could hold the Ilkhanate in the event of a war…. At least, hopefully. Otherwise there might be problems. As a result, he also made a deal with the serbians- if war came, he would allow them to take Epirus and Morea, as long as he got Thrace and their anatolian holdings.
In Italy, the Genoans were now the dominant force, having helped Constantinople oust the venetians. As a result, Ligurian was spreading throughout the region, and they had the money to buy some of the best condonterrie in Europe- something that came to a head when a war broke out between them and the Republic of Florence. Genoa’s maritime superiority and stronger ties to the wealth of the east allowed them to quite easily take over the coast of the republic, greatly expanding their own territory. However, this aggression naturally caught the eye of the papacy, by proximity if nothing else. However, while the Papacy did enter a league with Venice, nothing else came of it. Yet. However news of the pact did lead to Genoa beginning to pump money into the college of cardinals.
Of course, when news of this reached Italy, the papacy tried to call for a counter crusade but received little response. When he attempted to coerce Emperor Baldwin II of the Latin Empire, Baldwin very curtly pointed out that he had gone on one of the most successful crusades of the lot, re-establishing the Kingdom of Jerusalem under his Empire’s protection (indeed, it had been re-established, though not under a Hohenstaufen. Idly, the Emperor felt the Papacy should be quite pleased with that, given that he had no quarrel with the dynasty.) Regardless, given that the LEoC had accomplished this with the help of the Ilkhanate, but was still rife with internal religious disputes, had numerous turkic Beyliks to gain control over if they wished true security in Asia Minor, and had the heretical Bulgarians and Serbian to deal with, as well as the mongols… Baldwin II told the church in no uncertain terms he would not be sending soldiers, but any army that did arrive would see naval support.
This was not enough for Boniface VIII, who would later excommunicate Baldwin over this matter. The Pope had recently come out of a long running dispute with King Philippe IV of France over the right to tax the clergy, which had eventually been, begrudgingly, settled in the Frenchman’s favor. He was not about to lose his influence on what was easily the most successful Crusader State. While the excommunication would indeed cause problems with the catholic population and certain nobles (albeit, since few were hereditary, not that many), it would actually bolster the King’s reputation with his sizeable Muslim and orthodox subjects, as they certainly were not excited to go fight and die for the Catholic Church after doing just that. Now, Baldwin was not particularly tolerant, and still sponsored conversions (many using greek translations, the common tongue, though of course retaining Catholic theology,) but from a political standpoint, leaving his empire which had just made large territorial expansions and needed to truly assimilate (or at least pacify) the native population seemed like a good way to lose the most holy city in Christendom.
Now Boniface was not, as it may seem, an idiot. He recognized that having two of the most powerful monarchs in Europe against him was a bad call. As a result, he attempted to soothe things over with Philippe IV and establish relations with the Holy Roman Emperor. Well, King of Germany. Pope Boniface had not recognized Albert of House Hapsburg as King, let alone crowned him as Emperor. However, the dispute with Baldwin, as the unstable relations with Philippe IV, forced the Pontifex’s hand, and Albert I was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, King of the Romans, and King of Italy in 1301, in exchange for swearing to protect the Pope from any foreign armies. Boniface wanted to extract concessions about the Pope being the sole authority in crowning the Holy Roman Emperors, but ultimately, with sour relations between him and the other greatest powers of Europe, he felt that making such demands might jeopardize his efforts to protect the Papal States’ territorial integrity, especially while Theodora and Conrad were second in line for the throne of Romanía, which could effectively box the Papacy between the Western and Eastern Empires.
Of course, Baldwin did not want to conquer the Papacy, and no Catholic in their right mind would wage a war of conquest for the Eternal City. And while Boniface knew this, he still realized how powerful Romanía was becoming, and that to secure his independence, the Pope would likely need to play France, the HRE, and Romanía off of each other- all three were in a potentially prime position to threaten Italy. As a result, after no real response to his calls for crusade, the Pope was forced to call it off. A few years later, Baldwin would approach and seek to have his excommunication lifted. Boniface acquiesced, having lost the reason for it in the first place.
In 1307, Queen Margaret of Scotland and King Edward II of England bore their first son, also named Edward. Because apparently in Norman England there was something of a name shortage (two hundred years and six names…) Regardless, The birth of an heir did little to abade tensions within the Kingdom of England, and the Baron’s War began shortly after. The conflict in England facilitated unrest in Scotland as well. While Edward I had kept his word and not undermined the Scottish monarchy himself, Margaret had frequently turned to her husband and in-laws in the running of Scotland, which irritated the nobility. As a result, there were rumblings of raising Robert the Bruce as King of Scotland. However, there remained a large support for Margaret in the church, and much of the nobility, many of whom also owned land in England and thus wanted to keep things secure and as simple as possible. CC
In the Ilkhanate, things were… interesting, as Arghun had enticed the Papacy by stating he would be baptized were he and the Latins able to defeat the Mamluks, which he followed through on after his crusade. In fact he was baptized in Bethlehem. However, nearly a decade later, and the sheer size and the new chiristian leadership of the empire over a largely tengri and muslim population was already causing problems. While Arghun had been a capable ruler in his youth, since the Crusade, his son, Ghazan was quickly asserting himself as the real power in the sultanate. The nobles had largely followed Arghun’s baptism, but of course, the people en masse were harder. However, Ghazan and Arghun were rather tolerant for the time, but their vassal nobility were less so. As a result, the Mongol Khan had to put down a few revolts, mostly in Egypt.
In Anatolia, Emperor Alexios II was using the fractured nature of the Anatolian Beyliks to reassert dominance. It was becoming increasingly clear that the real Eastern Roman Empire had grown complacent and allowed the Latins too much opportunity to grow and expand- they held Syria, for Christ’s sake! Of course, the only reason that the populace wasn’t revolting immediately was because the “emperor” had allowed a muslim to remain governor of the province, but this was still agitating. Alexios’s invasions of eastern anatolia took up most of the decade, but were largely successful. He was even able to sponsor significant conversion to Orthodox Christianity. As an aside, the Ilkhanate records note mass movement from the beyliks to the Iraqi provinces, which was probably nothing.
Of course, Baldwin wasn’t happy with the idea of allowing his main rival for legitimacy and power to grow unchecked. As a result, he reaffirmed his alliance with the Ilkhanate, boxing in Trebizond if they were to act against either of the powers. This then led to Alexios sending overtures to the Golden Horde. While the lands of the Rus weren’t the powerful imperial core of persia, the Golden Horde would remain a force that could hold the Ilkhanate in the event of a war…. At least, hopefully. Otherwise there might be problems. As a result, he also made a deal with the serbians- if war came, he would allow them to take Epirus and Morea, as long as he got Thrace and their anatolian holdings.
In Italy, the Genoans were now the dominant force, having helped Constantinople oust the venetians. As a result, Ligurian was spreading throughout the region, and they had the money to buy some of the best condonterrie in Europe- something that came to a head when a war broke out between them and the Republic of Florence. Genoa’s maritime superiority and stronger ties to the wealth of the east allowed them to quite easily take over the coast of the republic, greatly expanding their own territory. However, this aggression naturally caught the eye of the papacy, by proximity if nothing else. However, while the Papacy did enter a league with Venice, nothing else came of it. Yet. However news of the pact did lead to Genoa beginning to pump money into the college of cardinals.
sorry it took so long and is still short; to be honest i had a hard time getting it out (part of why pictures will come later) and is honestly more to set up future stuff i want to explore
An interesting pod usually the Latin empire is ostracized and hated(Because of the Byzantine Empire) Some questions if you can answer me ,And the anatolia? The Latin empire will be able to reconquer some territories and And will re-establish the Greek population in these places? And on the religious issue maybe we will see the end of the schism ? And we will have successful long-term crusades?(Perhaps the fall of the Seljuks and the Latin empire managed to conquer most of Anatolia and Later was a crusade for Jerusalem Interesting to see how a crusade with an Powerful empire with Catholic rulers in place of byzantium Will the crusaders states be able to be stabilized for a long time, maybe we will see the return of Egypt to Christian hands after centuries?)?
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there's been some neglect of how the anatolians are being treated, ultimately due to me not being sure. I'm thinking of the region remaining turkish but still being catholicized, at least in the cities. otherwise, who knows
Well if you manage to conquer a large part of anatolia and Catholicize The great cities of Anatolia (including the Turkish Merchant class) We will see a crusade successful In the long term with the reconquest of Jerusalem and Maybe with the conquest of Egypt? (I don't know what the political situation in Egypt was at that time But If it was weakened, opening the way for a Catholic invasion of Egypt and Conquest? This can would practically seal a large part of the levante including Jerusalem in European hands for a long time Maybe even in the current century What can lead to an earlier colonization of Africa with a nearby Catholic state, I see Portuguese or Spaniards or both at the same time advanced in a conquest of Morocco and present-day Algeria, And the Ethiopians would not be so isolated, maybe even advanced and with the help of the Europeans to conquer Somalia What can mean a safe harbor for Europeans to the Indian Ocean )
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actually, the LE holds syria and jerusalem via an alliance with the mongol ilkhanate. I'm also of the opinion this would rather delay the age of exploration, due to lacking a major incentive. but who knows
With the Latin empire holding the anatolia The passage through the Mediterranean to India It is not blocked, which will not cause Portugal and Spain Invest a lot of money in maritime exploration to get around Africa What can delay Europeans discovering the Americas but We'll see europeans more Focused in Asia and India Perhaps we will see the attempt by Europeans to conquer Asian territories like the Philippines sooner and easier as they will not have the competition of the Ottoman Empire in the Indian ocean
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Ideas And Interests Going Forward (August 13)
Hey guys, i just wanted to see what sort of developments you'd like to see ttl? culturually, what sort of path you'd like countries or regions to go down, etc?
I'm curious to know the state of the eastern Orthodox church in this TL.
Well maybe a North Africa with Morocco and Algeria divided between Spain and Portugal and a more bellicose interaction of Europeans in Asia(Now that they have no problems passing through the Mediterranean and there is no big naval competition in the Indian Ocean) and an Ethiopia with European aid conquering Somalia( the coast of Somalia is good to build important ports for Europeans in their interaction with Asia So I think Ethiopia with European help to conquer these lands could be important Even for an attempted invasion of the Arab peninsula by Yemen But then it depends on whether you're going to focus on European Interaction in Asia)
Attachments
Part Six; The Orthodox Church and Fall Of The Ilkhanate
The Latin Empire was a diverse place; linguistically, it held Frenchmen (mostly Flemish), Greeks, Turks, and Bulgarians, though most nobility only spoke French and Greek- and the latter was mostly among the clergy. It was home to a wide array of religious sects as well- Catholicism, of course, was the state religion and the one espoused by the clergy, but Sunni Islam was, of course, relevant in Anatolia and Syria, and Orthodox Christianity, the Greek rite, remained in the countrysides of the Balkans, and there were scattered Jewish communities throughout the crusader empire. The administration was mostly flemish and greek, but in the east, Arabic also saw use. Emperor Baldwin II was personally of the opinion that attempting to force certain languages on the common folk would simply cause confusion and clutter the administration. As a result, he mandated that while laws would be written in French or greek (the languages he knew) they would be translated before being imposed. While hardly a revolution, many scholars believe it was the first step in standardizing the dialect of French that the Latin Empire used; mass translation into multiple languages (Greek, Arabic, and whatever other local dialect,) with a few alphabets, from a central location, necessitated everyone know how to read and write comprehensively.
While the Patriarch of Constantinople was held under strict regulation, he was still allowed to operate. However, by now, the Metropolitan of Athens was becoming the major religious official of the region. The current Metropolitan of Athens was Guy du Atens, and worked with the recently obtained Diocese of Aleppo, which followed the Syrian Rite, but was still beholden to the Papacy. However, with the Latin Empire able to establish holdings in areas of Christendom that weren’t often under Roman power, this led to the Papacy attempting to rectify some of the disputes between the two rites. Regardless of theological matters, Emperor Baldwin did not really do much with the Church if he could help it- he would attend church every week, of course, and provide money for functions, but he was not a zealous man by nature. Though, like any sane claimant to Roman glory, he did make efforts to push that he held Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople itself.
The century since the conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire had led to some notable conversions. Thrace was now estimated, by a slim majority, to be majority Roman catholic, as was Thessaloniki. Similarly, the Aegean Sea was mostly Catholicized due to the bloody nature of the conquests and their low population. Despite this, however, outside of major cities, most people retained Orthodox views. Anatolia was perhaps the most contentious area- it was still a battleground between the Orthodox Christians and Sunni Muslims even before the introduction of catholic conversion efforts. The most religiously stable part of the empire, ironically, was Syria, whose southern regions remained under a Muslim governor due to Baldwin’s promise in the crusade.
With the decline of Constantinople’s patriarch, other groups began to exert more autonomy. Kiev and Ras were the primary examples of this; Kiev already had disputes with the city’s doctrine, and the Patriarch eventually declared complete independence. In Serbia, however, there were opportunities for secular powers as well. Serbia began to take on traditionally Greek trappings, clearly seeking to establish itself as a successor to the Eastern Empire. This eventually led to Serbian King Stefan Milutin waging a second war with the Bulgarians. This war was a resounding success, laying siege to Tyrnovo, the Bulgarian capital. However, while it was an unabashed war of conquest, Serbia did not wish to draw too much attention from the usurping Latins.
However, the Golden Horde, nominal overlord of the Rus principalities, had largely been successful in efforts to snuff out their independence and autonomy- and this included Kiev. However, this mainly mattered in political matters- at the time, little effort was made on religious change. However, the golden horde was still allied to the Empire of Trebizond, which would prove quite sufficient, at least for a time. The main goal of the alliance was preventing war, and Emperor Baldwin was not a warmaker by nature and did not want to explore the option while other choices remained.
However, this peace faltered rather quickly. In 1312, a rebellion broke out in Egypt against the Ilkhan Öljaitü before spreading into Iraq. While Öljaitü was not an overly zealous man, he had placed a Christian in charge of the provinces of Egypt and northern Iraq. This Egyptian rebellion, led by a former slave who had been assistant to a Mongol officer. As a result of this, he was able to take Cairo and amass a following, breaking the Mongol hold on the provinces. It was shortly after this that Iraq’s own peasants declared for the Egyptians. While this situation would normally be put down easily enough, the Golden Horde saw an opportunity to reclaim Azerbaijan and invaded. With no other choice, the Persian empire called in Constantinople, which triggered the alliances with Trebizond, and, through them, Serbia.
Baldwin decided to focus on Serbia and Trebizond first but did order Syria to help the Ilkhanate. This would prove a mistake, as, during the campaign into Serbia (deemed the greater threat to the Balkans), Baldwin was slain. The empire fell to the twelve-year-old Constantine and a council of nobility. The nobility proved to be rather poor commanders, and after two years of humiliating defeat after defeat (the nobility suffered from infighting, and few of them wanted to reinforce each other's armies), surrendered to the Serbians. The Serbians gleefully took much of Epirus and declared the Serbian Empire. The regency council, headed by Alexander of Antioch, did have much better luck against Trebizond and were able to take much of the western coast during the long and protracted war. While the empire was able to keep Trebizond off of the Ilkhanate, it was difficult without coordinated leadership, and with no noble clearly more powerful than the others bar Thessaloniki, which had suffered grossly at the Serbian hand, coordinated leadership was a pipe dream. Constantine, for his part, did a great deal of studying when he was able to. This, and his nobles losing what was his personal land, gave him ideas. He already had a professional navy- one of the only ones in the Mediterranean. Why not a permanent army? He had most of Greece regardless of the losses in Epirus. The problem was the nobility despised the notion, and with the conquests in Anatolia, many were expanding their power. One even went so far as to go over Constantine's head and directly get the pope to declare him Duke of Antalya! This was the first feudal fief in the Anatolian holdings in quite a while; since their reconquest, they had been the either direct property of the Emperor or had been under non-hereditary governors. That settled it- Constantine was going to destroy Trebizond, and established his hold on his empire, one way or another.
As soon as the emperor turned 15, he demanded an army under his command. The nobles had been able to sideline him before, but now that he had full command of his provinces, this was no longer the case. He took out several loans from Venetian and Genoese bankers, amassed a new, personal army, and set off into Anatolia. He moved like lightning. Trebizond’s armies were slow to respond, having to cross back into Anatolia through Iraq, or hostile Syria. As a result, in three years, Constantine’s armies were able to spread far into Anatolia. As Constantine had no intention of letting there be an Empire of Trebizond after this war, he established numerous governors who all understood plain as day that they answered directly to him. Not his nobility, not the church, not the peasants, and not the merchants. Him. Emperor Constantine. Naturally, this upset his nobility, (and the fact that many of his governors were cousins of the established ones would come back to harm the young emperor,) but the fact the young emperor had the largest army and was currently the most successful commander in the empire made challenging him seem very very stupid. And so they didn’t. On the battlefield anyway. But they attempted to get the mercenaries to betray him, or switch to their contract, which wouldn’t seem like a betrayal on the surface until it was too late. Unfortunately, the Emperor had foreseen this and had paid significant premiums that his lesser nobility, of which only a few of whom had significant land to challenge the emperor (even with Epirus lost,) were not quite able to match.
After about eight months of the campaign, the Emperor met a Trebizond army, who were in similar condition but far smaller numbers. It was a massacre. Constantine seemed insistent on cutting down every single soldier. It was after this, the Battle of Ankara, that Constantine earned his most famous epithet; Constantine Répandre du Sang- Constantine the Blood Spiller. It was a name the emperor would go on to earn again and again in his conquest of Trebizond. Over the next year, the Ilkhanate would call out again and again for the, clearly capable, emperor’s help, but Constantine would rebuke them. In his mind, they had already lost, Egypt and the Golden Horde would prove too much for them, he was simply using them as an opportunity to conquer a fierce rival. When the Emperor reached Sinope, however, he found Trebizondian and Golden Horde forces amassing a fortification ready for him. While Constantine would lay siege briefly, he was not a patient young man (scarcely more than the boy he had been when he launched his gruesome campaign,) and his mercenaries were contract workers, meaning that he could scarcely waste time with them. As a result, just before winter, he ordered an assault. While he would be able to take the city, it was costly in lives, material, and in paying the mercenaries afterward. However, he had bankrupted Trebizond, and soon his naval commander brought him news that even their holding in Crimea had been seized. With the depletion of their army, the defeat of their navy, and the fall of one of their most important cities, the Empire of Trebizond was forced to yield to whatever Constantine demanded. When he declared that he would take the whole of their empire, but spare the nobility who accepted his suzerainty and converted to catholicism, this was naturally contested by the emperor. However, Constantine’s declaration that nobles who surrendered would retain their privileges and land won over just enough to topple Trebizond and hand him dominion over Anatolia.
However, it was too late for the Ilkhans. The baring down of the horde and the mass revolts meant they had to make peace. Egypt was assured independence under the Hassen dynasty, forming a powerful new sultanate. The Golden horde, of course, made its caucasian inroads, and the Persian core of the empire was radically destabilized after four years of war with powerful neighbors and an enraged native population. The court naturally detested Constantine, seeing him as a bloodthirsty opportunist. They were right of course, but it still hurt. Regardless, Constantine himself enjoyed quite the popularity with the people, pushing his victories abroad as culling an eastern threat and establishing that he was truly a Roman Emperor. Constantine would use this, and the fact that he owned most of the land he had taken, to start developing one of the first standing armies of the era. It would be expensive, of course, and require finding people who were… mostly willing to sign up for the profession, but that would all be arranged. And of course, when it was done, he knew exactly who he would turn the first generation of his new legion on.
While the Patriarch of Constantinople was held under strict regulation, he was still allowed to operate. However, by now, the Metropolitan of Athens was becoming the major religious official of the region. The current Metropolitan of Athens was Guy du Atens, and worked with the recently obtained Diocese of Aleppo, which followed the Syrian Rite, but was still beholden to the Papacy. However, with the Latin Empire able to establish holdings in areas of Christendom that weren’t often under Roman power, this led to the Papacy attempting to rectify some of the disputes between the two rites. Regardless of theological matters, Emperor Baldwin did not really do much with the Church if he could help it- he would attend church every week, of course, and provide money for functions, but he was not a zealous man by nature. Though, like any sane claimant to Roman glory, he did make efforts to push that he held Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople itself.
The century since the conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire had led to some notable conversions. Thrace was now estimated, by a slim majority, to be majority Roman catholic, as was Thessaloniki. Similarly, the Aegean Sea was mostly Catholicized due to the bloody nature of the conquests and their low population. Despite this, however, outside of major cities, most people retained Orthodox views. Anatolia was perhaps the most contentious area- it was still a battleground between the Orthodox Christians and Sunni Muslims even before the introduction of catholic conversion efforts. The most religiously stable part of the empire, ironically, was Syria, whose southern regions remained under a Muslim governor due to Baldwin’s promise in the crusade.
With the decline of Constantinople’s patriarch, other groups began to exert more autonomy. Kiev and Ras were the primary examples of this; Kiev already had disputes with the city’s doctrine, and the Patriarch eventually declared complete independence. In Serbia, however, there were opportunities for secular powers as well. Serbia began to take on traditionally Greek trappings, clearly seeking to establish itself as a successor to the Eastern Empire. This eventually led to Serbian King Stefan Milutin waging a second war with the Bulgarians. This war was a resounding success, laying siege to Tyrnovo, the Bulgarian capital. However, while it was an unabashed war of conquest, Serbia did not wish to draw too much attention from the usurping Latins.
However, the Golden Horde, nominal overlord of the Rus principalities, had largely been successful in efforts to snuff out their independence and autonomy- and this included Kiev. However, this mainly mattered in political matters- at the time, little effort was made on religious change. However, the golden horde was still allied to the Empire of Trebizond, which would prove quite sufficient, at least for a time. The main goal of the alliance was preventing war, and Emperor Baldwin was not a warmaker by nature and did not want to explore the option while other choices remained.
However, this peace faltered rather quickly. In 1312, a rebellion broke out in Egypt against the Ilkhan Öljaitü before spreading into Iraq. While Öljaitü was not an overly zealous man, he had placed a Christian in charge of the provinces of Egypt and northern Iraq. This Egyptian rebellion, led by a former slave who had been assistant to a Mongol officer. As a result of this, he was able to take Cairo and amass a following, breaking the Mongol hold on the provinces. It was shortly after this that Iraq’s own peasants declared for the Egyptians. While this situation would normally be put down easily enough, the Golden Horde saw an opportunity to reclaim Azerbaijan and invaded. With no other choice, the Persian empire called in Constantinople, which triggered the alliances with Trebizond, and, through them, Serbia.
Baldwin decided to focus on Serbia and Trebizond first but did order Syria to help the Ilkhanate. This would prove a mistake, as, during the campaign into Serbia (deemed the greater threat to the Balkans), Baldwin was slain. The empire fell to the twelve-year-old Constantine and a council of nobility. The nobility proved to be rather poor commanders, and after two years of humiliating defeat after defeat (the nobility suffered from infighting, and few of them wanted to reinforce each other's armies), surrendered to the Serbians. The Serbians gleefully took much of Epirus and declared the Serbian Empire. The regency council, headed by Alexander of Antioch, did have much better luck against Trebizond and were able to take much of the western coast during the long and protracted war. While the empire was able to keep Trebizond off of the Ilkhanate, it was difficult without coordinated leadership, and with no noble clearly more powerful than the others bar Thessaloniki, which had suffered grossly at the Serbian hand, coordinated leadership was a pipe dream. Constantine, for his part, did a great deal of studying when he was able to. This, and his nobles losing what was his personal land, gave him ideas. He already had a professional navy- one of the only ones in the Mediterranean. Why not a permanent army? He had most of Greece regardless of the losses in Epirus. The problem was the nobility despised the notion, and with the conquests in Anatolia, many were expanding their power. One even went so far as to go over Constantine's head and directly get the pope to declare him Duke of Antalya! This was the first feudal fief in the Anatolian holdings in quite a while; since their reconquest, they had been the either direct property of the Emperor or had been under non-hereditary governors. That settled it- Constantine was going to destroy Trebizond, and established his hold on his empire, one way or another.
As soon as the emperor turned 15, he demanded an army under his command. The nobles had been able to sideline him before, but now that he had full command of his provinces, this was no longer the case. He took out several loans from Venetian and Genoese bankers, amassed a new, personal army, and set off into Anatolia. He moved like lightning. Trebizond’s armies were slow to respond, having to cross back into Anatolia through Iraq, or hostile Syria. As a result, in three years, Constantine’s armies were able to spread far into Anatolia. As Constantine had no intention of letting there be an Empire of Trebizond after this war, he established numerous governors who all understood plain as day that they answered directly to him. Not his nobility, not the church, not the peasants, and not the merchants. Him. Emperor Constantine. Naturally, this upset his nobility, (and the fact that many of his governors were cousins of the established ones would come back to harm the young emperor,) but the fact the young emperor had the largest army and was currently the most successful commander in the empire made challenging him seem very very stupid. And so they didn’t. On the battlefield anyway. But they attempted to get the mercenaries to betray him, or switch to their contract, which wouldn’t seem like a betrayal on the surface until it was too late. Unfortunately, the Emperor had foreseen this and had paid significant premiums that his lesser nobility, of which only a few of whom had significant land to challenge the emperor (even with Epirus lost,) were not quite able to match.
After about eight months of the campaign, the Emperor met a Trebizond army, who were in similar condition but far smaller numbers. It was a massacre. Constantine seemed insistent on cutting down every single soldier. It was after this, the Battle of Ankara, that Constantine earned his most famous epithet; Constantine Répandre du Sang- Constantine the Blood Spiller. It was a name the emperor would go on to earn again and again in his conquest of Trebizond. Over the next year, the Ilkhanate would call out again and again for the, clearly capable, emperor’s help, but Constantine would rebuke them. In his mind, they had already lost, Egypt and the Golden Horde would prove too much for them, he was simply using them as an opportunity to conquer a fierce rival. When the Emperor reached Sinope, however, he found Trebizondian and Golden Horde forces amassing a fortification ready for him. While Constantine would lay siege briefly, he was not a patient young man (scarcely more than the boy he had been when he launched his gruesome campaign,) and his mercenaries were contract workers, meaning that he could scarcely waste time with them. As a result, just before winter, he ordered an assault. While he would be able to take the city, it was costly in lives, material, and in paying the mercenaries afterward. However, he had bankrupted Trebizond, and soon his naval commander brought him news that even their holding in Crimea had been seized. With the depletion of their army, the defeat of their navy, and the fall of one of their most important cities, the Empire of Trebizond was forced to yield to whatever Constantine demanded. When he declared that he would take the whole of their empire, but spare the nobility who accepted his suzerainty and converted to catholicism, this was naturally contested by the emperor. However, Constantine’s declaration that nobles who surrendered would retain their privileges and land won over just enough to topple Trebizond and hand him dominion over Anatolia.
However, it was too late for the Ilkhans. The baring down of the horde and the mass revolts meant they had to make peace. Egypt was assured independence under the Hassen dynasty, forming a powerful new sultanate. The Golden horde, of course, made its caucasian inroads, and the Persian core of the empire was radically destabilized after four years of war with powerful neighbors and an enraged native population. The court naturally detested Constantine, seeing him as a bloodthirsty opportunist. They were right of course, but it still hurt. Regardless, Constantine himself enjoyed quite the popularity with the people, pushing his victories abroad as culling an eastern threat and establishing that he was truly a Roman Emperor. Constantine would use this, and the fact that he owned most of the land he had taken, to start developing one of the first standing armies of the era. It would be expensive, of course, and require finding people who were… mostly willing to sign up for the profession, but that would all be arranged. And of course, when it was done, he knew exactly who he would turn the first generation of his new legion on.
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the "new legion" bit is of course, roman based, but with the janissaries being established in 1380, i could see a young emperor who sought military glory beginning the development of a standing army, if not actually implementing it, around this period.
I will also say that while Constantine might have dreams of burning down mecca and taking Iraq, the eastern frontier is basically settled from this point on. The northern and western frontiers are more up in the air depending on what I think could be fun or you guys want
I will also say that while Constantine might have dreams of burning down mecca and taking Iraq, the eastern frontier is basically settled from this point on. The northern and western frontiers are more up in the air depending on what I think could be fun or you guys want
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With a successful Latin Empire, guess we have Rhomania's equivalent to the "conquest dynasties" that China and Persia have.
Perhaps, though in all honesty I don't really see this empire as any more roman than the ottomans. But I suppose that's part of what makes this interesting.
... got damn grammerly. I'll switch it to merchants tomorrow.
Otherwise, thoughts on the chapter?
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so, i'm having trouble sorting out a bit of butterflies; as you saw, Conradin stalled matters with Margret of Norway long enough for her to become queen and thus create an anglo-scottish union. but that butterflies the HYW as we know it; i've created another thread for that discussion so this one doesn't get too cluttered
So any plans for the Komnenos family? Could see them resurge in Armenia or Assyria if possible.
hm. They hadn't really crossed my mind. I could see a catholic branch forming and becoming power players around there for sure though