Yellow Crusade

In 1255 Batu Khan, founded of the Golden Horde, dies to be succeeded by his son, Sartak. Among Sartak's first actions was to arrange for a quiet demise of his beloved uncle, Berke. This action guaranteed his long as happy reign. The important thing to know about Sartak - he is a Nestorian Christian.

In the same year the Great Khan, Möngke charged his brother Hulagu with leading a massive Mongol army to conquer or destroy the remaining Muslim states in southwestern Asia. To accomplish this task he received 20% of all Mongolian forces. Part of that army were contingents sent from the Golden Horde. While being a follower of the traditional religion, Hulagu was quite sympathetic to the Christians (IIRC, his wife was a christian and so were quite a few of his subordinates). On January 29, 1258 Mongols under Chinese general Guo Kan laid siege to Baghdad and on February 10 Baghdad surrendered with the following extensive looting. To get things in a proper perspective, Yasa forbade destruction of the religious property and killing of the priests but this did not apply to the cases when the cities had been taken by storm. As a token of his good attitude toward the christians, Hulagu gave Caliph's palace to the Nestorian patriarch as a present. Caliph was killed.

Smaller states in the region hastened to reassure Hulagu of their loyalty, and the Mongols turned to Syria in 1259, conquering the Ayyubid dynasty and sending advance patrols as far ahead as Gaza.

In 1260 Mongol forces combined with those of their Christian vassals in the region, including the army of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia under Hethum I, King of Armenia and the Franks of Bohemond VI of Antioch. This force conquered Muslim Syria, a domain of the Ayyubid dynasty. They captured Aleppo by siege and, under the Christian general Kitbuqa, seized Damascus on March 1, 1260. A Christian Mass was celebrated in the Umayyad Mosque and numerous mosques were profaned. The last Ayyubid king, An-Nasir Yusuf, was killed by Hulagu in 1260.

Hulagu intended to continue southward through Palestine towards Cairo to fight the Mamluks. He sent a threatening letter to the Mamluk Sultan Qutuz in Cairo. He demanded that Qutuz open Cairo or it would be destroyed like Baghdad.

At that moment Mongke Khan died, so Hulagu, as an heir and potential Great Khan was supposed to return to Mongolia for the election of a new Khan with his troops. However, following example of his late cousin, Batu, Hulagu decided not to go and just sent few messengers to express support to his brother Khubilay. (*)

Instead he proposed an alliance with the remnant of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, now centered on Acre, and, while the Pope Alexander IV had forbidden such an alliance (it could be potentially strengthening Conrad III Stauffen), presence of the huge Mongolian army at the back door made importance of the whole issue rather theoretical. The barons of Acre still let the Mamluks to march northward without hindrance through Crusader territory and even let them camp near Acre to resupply but at Ain Jalut 15 - 20,000 Mamluks met 100,000 Mongols and had been slaughtered. In few months Cairo was burned and Hulagu created a vassal Coptic state in the Lower Egypt.

Jerusalem had been restored to Christianity and even a raving maniac like Alexander IV found it difficult not to greet such an occasion (anyway, he died in 1261). Expanded Kingdom of Jerusalem had been made Hulagu vassal and its king, Conrad, decided that it is better to go to his titular kingdom rather than to keep dealing with Papacy's "holy war" against the Stauffens.

The direct Mongolian presence in the region remains quite limited: the climate is too hot and there not enough grass to maintain there a large force for a long time.

Alliance with Sartak had been used by Hulagu in his attempt to crush the Muslim opposition on his territories. OTOH, having him as a neighbor allowed Sartak to strengthen his own position (quite a few of his subjects had been Muslims). While he was not quite successful, Il-Khanate, just like the Golden Horde, became a multi-religious state.

And everybody lived happily for a short while. :)

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(*) There is a distinct possibility that actually Hulagu withdrew most of his forces because he could not sustain such a large army logistically: the fodder in the region had been mostly used up and it was a Mongol custom to withdraw to cooler lands for the summer. If true, we are just postponing the timing of a renewed advance making Kitbuka to stay in a safe area with his small force until the main army returns the next year.
 
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In 1255 Batu Khan, founded of the Golden Horde, dies to be succeeded by his son, Sartak. Among Sartak's first actions was to arrange for a quiet demise of his beloved uncle, Berke. This action guaranteed his long as happy reign. The important thing to know about Sartak - he is a Nestorian Christian.

In the same year the Great Khan, Möngke charged his brother Hulagu with leading a massive Mongol army to conquer or destroy the remaining Muslim states in southwestern Asia. To accomplish this task he received 20% of all Mongolian forces. Part of that army were contingents sent from the Golden Horde. While being a follower of the traditional religion, Hulagu was quite sympathetic to the Christians (IIRC, his wife was a christian and so were quite a few of his subordinates). On January 29, 1258 Mongols under Chinese general Guo Kan laid siege to Baghdad and on February 10 Baghdad surrendered with the following extensive looting. To get things in a proper perspective, Yasa forbade destruction of the religious property and killing of the priests but this did not apply to the cases when the cities had been taken by storm. As a token of his good attitude toward the christians, Hulagu gave Caliph's palace to the Nestorian patriarch as a present. Caliph was killed.

Smaller states in the region hastened to reassure Hulagu of their loyalty, and the Mongols turned to Syria in 1259, conquering the Ayyubid dynasty and sending advance patrols as far ahead as Gaza.

In 1260 Mongol forces combined with those of their Christian vassals in the region, including the army of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia under Hethum I, King of Armenia and the Franks of Bohemond VI of Antioch. This force conquered Muslim Syria, a domain of the Ayyubid dynasty. They captured Aleppo by siege and, under the Christian general Kitbuqa, seized Damascus on March 1, 1260. A Christian Mass was celebrated in the Umayyad Mosque and numerous mosques were profaned. The last Ayyubid king, An-Nasir Yusuf, was killed by Hulagu in 1260.

Hulagu intended to continue southward through Palestine towards Cairo to fight the Mamluks. He sent a threatening letter to the Mamluk Sultan Qutuz in Cairo. He demanded that Qutuz open Cairo or it would be destroyed like Baghdad.

At that moment Mongke Khan died, so Hulagu, as an heir and potential Great Khan was supposed to return to Mongolia for the election of a new Khan with his troops. However, following example of his late cousin, Batu, Hulagu decided not to go and just sent few messengers to express support to his brother Khubilay.

Instead he proposed an alliance with the remnant of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, now centered on Acre, and, while the Pope Alexander IV had forbidden such an alliance (it could be potentially strengthening Conrad III Stauffen), presence of the huge Mongolian army at the back door made importance of the whole issue rather theoretical. The barons of Acre still let the Mamluks to march northward without hindrance through Crusader territory and even let them camp near Acre to resupply but at Ain Jalut 15 - 20,000 Mamluks met 100,000 Mongols and had been slaughtered. In few months Cairo was burned and Hulagu created a vassal Coptic state in the Lower Egypt.

Jerusalem had been restored to Christianity and even a raving maniac like Alexander IV found it difficult not to greet such an occasion (anyway, he died in 1261). Expanded Kingdom of Jerusalem had been made Hulagu vassal and its king, Conrad, decided that it is better to go to his titular kingdom rather than to keep dealing with Papacy's "holy war" against the Stauffens.

Alliance with Sartak had been used by Hulagu in his attempt to crush the Muslim opposition on his territories. OTOH, having him as a neighbor allowed Sartak to strengthen his own position (quite a few of his subjects had been Muslims). While he was not quite successful, Il-Khanate, just like the Golden Horde, became a multi-religious state.

And everybody lived happily for a short while. :)

Except for the corpses after the sack of Cairo and Baghdad.

Was this a TL? If so is it finished? And how does a Mongolian Army cross the Sinai? Isn't that like... bad for horses?
 
Except for the corpses after the sack of Cairo and Baghdad.

Well, there were much more of corpses in China and Khwaresm so what's so specific about these corpses? Anyway, "lived" kind of excludes the corpses...

Was this a TL? If so is it finished?

Yes. Future is widely open to the speculations because it may go more than one way.

And how does a Mongolian Army cross the Sinai? Isn't that like... bad for horses?

The Mongols crossed really big and nasty deserts, like Gobi and Kizilkum, under Genghis. BTW, the Mamluks also had been a cavalry and somehow they had been crossing it ....
 
Well, there were much more of corpses in China and Khwaresm so what's so specific about these corpses? Anyway, "lived" kind of excludes the corpses...

So this proves my point of why this is fails to be happily ever after o_O


Yes. Future is widely open to the speculations because it may go more than one way.

Okay then. I predict all the African Lions migrated North to Egypt, eat everyone there, jump in the ships fleeing Egypt to eat some Venetian merchants. This is really possible, just trust me



The Mongols crossed really big and nasty deserts, like Gobi and Kizilkum, under Genghis. BTW, the Mamluks also had been a cavalry and somehow they had been crossing it ....

Fair enough, I give you that

...
 
Interesting premise; I had thought about it a few years back, but lacked knowledge of the period to go beyond hand-waving speculation.

Big questions:

What is the demographic balance in Egypt, i.e. the proportion of Moslems and Christians? Is it possible that now the Copts are in power, they will return Egypt to a purely Christian country? Egypt is fairly isolated from other major Moslem population centers, so the contest is really between the Copts and Egyptian Moslems.

What is the demographic effect in the Levant? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization?

What is the demographic effect in Mesopotamia? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization?

What is the demographic effect in Anatolia? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization? OTL, the Mongol raid into Anatolia in 1244 left the Seljuks as vassals; ITTL, do the Mongols put the area under Christian rulers (Byzantium, Cilician Armenia, Trebizond...)?

If this "Christian re-conquest" of the Near East holds, the Dar al-Islam has been cut in half. The Moslems of NW Africa are now isolated from the main remaining Moslem population in Arabia, Persia, and India. Sudan would still remain Moslem, unless Coptic Egypt moves south and links up with Abyssinia.

In which case: WI the Moslems of NW Africa, blocked from making the Haj via the Mediterranean, try sailing around Africa?
 
...

alexmilman said:
Well, there were much more of corpses in China and Khwaresm so what's so specific about these corpses? Anyway, "lived" kind of excludes the corpses...

So this proves my point of why this is fails to be happily ever after o_O

Your point would make sense if everybody else was an earlier version of Mother Theresa, which (AFAIK) was not the case.


Yes. Future is widely open to the speculations because it may go more than one way.

Okay then. I predict all the African Lions migrated North to Egypt, eat everyone there, jump in the ships fleeing Egypt to eat some Venetian merchants. This is really possible, just trust me


Well, this is, of course, one of the options (and quite entertaining one) but personally I'd opt for something more realistic. For example, Mongolian vassal states in the region.

BTW, will the Venetians eaten by the lions qualify as "happy"?



The Mongols crossed really big and nasty deserts, like Gobi and Kizilkum, under Genghis. BTW, the Mamluks also had been a cavalry and somehow they had been crossing it ....

Fair enough, I give you that

Thanks for agreeing with obvious: the road from Egypt to Syria is across Sinai and had been used for centuries if not millennias. AFAIK, the only person who could not get it straight was Moses. :p
 
Your point would make sense if everybody else was an earlier version of Mother Theresa, which (AFAIK) was not the case.




Well, this is, of course, one of the options (and quite entertaining one) but personally I'd opt for something more realistic. For example, Mongolian vassal states in the region.

BTW, will the Venetians eaten by the lions qualify as "happy"?





Thanks for agreeing with obvious: the road from Egypt to Syria is across Sinai and had been used for centuries if not millennias. AFAIK, the only person who could not get it straight was Moses. :p

Venetians eaten by lions will be happy ending for the Byzantines.
 
Interesting premise; I had thought about it a few years back, but lacked knowledge of the period to go beyond hand-waving speculation.

Big questions:

What is the demographic balance in Egypt, i.e. the proportion of Moslems and Christians? Is it possible that now the Copts are in power, they will return Egypt to a purely Christian country? Egypt is fairly isolated from other major Moslem population centers, so the contest is really between the Copts and Egyptian Moslems.

I don't know the exact numbers but clearly the Copts represented a sizable minority. The Muslims became majority in Engypt between X and XIV century (which gives you a general idea about precision of the speculations :cool:). According to Wiki "Persecution of Egyptian Christians, however, reached a peak in the early Mamluk period following the Crusader wars. Many forced conversions of Christians were reported" which means that it was just peaking up at the time we are talking about and that, given an opportunity, quite a few of the newly converted Muslims would "re-convert".

Basically, the precise breakdown would not be important for the Mongols: they'd just need a loyal ruler with a reasonably big supporting "constituency" to make regime stable enough and they would not even need a new state to cover the whole territory: the lower Egypt with its important ports and production of the valuable fabrics would be quite enough. By the obvious logistical reasons they would apply the vassal model (as in Rus, Georgia, Antioch, Armenia, etc.). A vassal state was paying tribute and supplying a pre-arranged number of troops, when requested. Ruler of the state had to be confirmed by the Khan (in theory, by the Great Khan but, starting with Batu the local khans were seemingly usurping this authority). The internal affairs had been left to the local rulers who, in the case of need, could ask for the Mongolian help.



What is the demographic effect in the Levant? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization?

I think that at best the local Christian states/communities would be somewhat bigger: Outremer was seemingly not too good in spreading Christianity and the Mongols did not really care one way or another.

What is the demographic effect in Mesopotamia? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization?

I don't think that there would be noticeable changes: when the dust of the initial conquest settles Hulagu and his successors have to abide to Yasa and its equal treatment of all religions. Plus, in the sedentary areas all legal and religious issues had been left to the local authorities by definition (Yasa did not apply to the "people who live in the houses" except for the general requests of religious tolerance, etc.). Most probably, Hulagu successors would convert to Islam, as in OTL.

What is the demographic effect in Anatolia? Again, has it been tipped to where it now favors further Christianization? OTL, the Mongol raid into Anatolia in 1244 left the Seljuks as vassals; ITTL, do the Mongols put the area under Christian rulers (Byzantium, Cilician Armenia, Trebizond...)?

IMO, it would be much more a matter of convenience rather than religion.

Here is one factor which makes this TL different from the OTL: in OTL, by attacking Baghdad and killing Caliph, Hulagu immediately went into conflict with the ruler of the Golden Horde, Berke, who was a devoted Muslim. Berke ordered his troops to withdraw from Hulagu's forces, which should be a serious blow to his military strength. Then, the conflict escalated and led to a series of wars fought on the Northern Caucasus. Of course, besides the personal factors there was an objective one: the good pastures in the area. As a result, Il-Khanate really did not have resources for a renewed push toward Egypt (IIRC, fighting in Syria continued for a while and Il-Khanate even managed to defeat the Mamluks at least once before it finally withdrew from the area but war with the Golden Horde was a much more serious thing).

In this AH the Golden Horde is ruled by a Christian khan who is sympathetic to Hulagu's activities and is not going to recall his troops. With the good personal relations the territorial conflict could be resolved peacefully. While the area was rather critical for Il-Khanate due to (AFAIK) the shortage of the good pastures on its territory, the Golden Horde controlled huge steppe space and the area was not too critical and, with both sides willing, some compromise could be figured out. If this happens, Il-Khanate has plenty of resources to expand conquest all the way to Egypt and to deal decisively with the leftovers of the Seljuk state (unless they are very quick with their submission). This potentially creates some options for the Nicean Empire with a chance for the earlier fall of the Latin Kingdom (if Nicea becomes Mongolian vassal) and perhaps for the Nicean expansion into Anatolia. Kingdom of Georgia also could get a piece of a territory as Il-Khanate vassal.


If this "Christian re-conquest" of the Near East holds, the Dar al-Islam has been cut in half. The Moslems of NW Africa are now isolated from the main remaining Moslem population in Arabia, Persia, and India. Sudan would still remain Moslem, unless Coptic Egypt moves south and links up with Abyssinia.

In which case: WI the Moslems of NW Africa, blocked from making the Haj via the Mediterranean, try sailing around Africa?

Well, "Coptic Egypt" does not necessarily means ban on the Muslim pilgrims: there is still a big Muslim population and, besides, the pilgrims mean business and income. :cool:
 
Were there animal rights activists in the Venice of the XIII century? :cool:
Actually, the book I'm reading at the moment was talking about all the debates taking place in the Middle Ages, whether Jesus also came to save the animals and whether it was, for example, right to make them work on a Sunday.
The lion also became a symbol for Christ, so here you go. It would probably be seen as divine punishment
 
Actually, the book I'm reading at the moment was talking about all the debates taking place in the Middle Ages, whether Jesus also came to save the animals and whether it was, for example, right to make them work on a Sunday.
The lion also became a symbol for Christ, so here you go. It would probably be seen as divine punishment
And a winged lion of St. Marc was a symbol of Venice so getting the lions there would be somewhat logical. ;)
 
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