XXth C: Discussion Thread

Glen

Moderator
Othniel said:
I'm still waiting for Glen to say these OTL events won't happen from the 1901 list.

Oth, that's a long list.

Most of them will happen, both because they were already set in motion by previous events before the POD, and because some of them even if changed wouldn't make a perceptible difference in overall history.

Thank you for it, and I'll go through them for ideas. However, you can too! Just pick some events that you think could have easily gone another way (with just a slightly different luck), and post them as events in the draft thread.
 
as far as the Anthracite Coal strike goes, McKinley would be way more hands off than Roosevelt, hence my draft for the Pinkertons firing on the strikers.
 

Glen

Moderator
SkyEmperor said:
as far as the Anthracite Coal strike goes, McKinley would be way more hands off than Roosevelt, hence my draft for the Pinkertons firing on the strikers.

Seems reasonable, but what does that lead to?
 
Glen Finney said:
So, I am not particularly familiar with this strike. What happened in the original timeline?

Well, Roosevelt was in office.
He threatened to nationalise the Pennsylvania coal fields if the operators wouldnt negotiate with the labor. (it was an empty threat, but it worked).

McKinley was way less hands on, so he probably would have watched the events unfold. I think the coal strike would be the beginning of a deterioration in labor relations. with out TR's trust-busting things could get real nasty. What do you guys think?
 

Glen

Moderator
Othniel said:
And Booker T. Washington's Vist to the White don't happen.

Sad but true, sad but true....

Though maybe if he attains the presidency later, it might just be a dream deferred....
 

Glen

Moderator
SkyEmperor said:
Well, Roosevelt was in office.
He threatened to nationalise the Pennsylvania coal fields if the operators wouldnt negotiate with the labor. (it was an empty threat, but it worked).

McKinley was way less hands on, so he probably would have watched the events unfold. I think the coal strike would be the beginning of a deterioration in labor relations. with out TR's trust-busting things could get real nasty. What do you guys think?

Oh, THAT strike....I agree with you.
 
yeah, things should be pretty shaky when it comes to labor relations. McKinley was very laissez faire (not necessarily bad). He probably wouldnt be much of a trust-buster, and that could give real fire power to types like Upton Sinclair and Eugene Debbs, but maybe im thinking too long term.
 
Glen Finney said:
Seems reasonable, but what does that lead to?

massive unrest in pennsylvania, the strike is put down by force, pinkertons and bought out police storm barricades, etc.
coal comes back, at its normal prices
but labor is pissed, way pissed. trouble down the road...:eek:
 
Feb 15, 1904, Mark Hana is not invected by Typhoid feaver, and continues to campaign for the upcoming election.

1904: Republican National Convention, Chicago
Old Guard Republicans and party machines fear Roosevelt, who recieves 432 votes on the first ballot, not quite a majority and a long shot from 2/3. The other votes are spread around thin among severall favorite sons. Many conservative Republicans back Mark Hana, mastermind of the previous administration or Charles Fairbanks, a pro-trust former corprate lawyer. As it becomes clear that Roosevelt doesn't have enough support, Hana gains power. By the 7th ballot it becomes clear that Hana doesn't have quite enough rural or progressive support, thoug Fairbanks seems like a fair option. By the 16th ballot and the second day the two are neck and neck, with Roosevelt far behind. Desperate for another solution, moderate Republicans wire Admiral Dewey, who had considered running in 1900, to offer his canidacy. Roosevelt drops out and supports Dewey. The admiral agrees, and quickly Fairbanks looses some of his support. Hana, seeing that his chances are gone, leaves the race and encourages his supporters to vote for Fairbanks. Dewey is too mysterious a figure for the estabolished Republicans, who start working against him on the sidelines. Dewey recieves 539 votes at his highest point, but does not have the support for a full 2/3. Elihu Root, popular McKinley confinante and sucessful Secretary of War emmerges as a comprimise canidate, and wins 2/3 majority by the 32nd ballot. Fairbanks is chosen as VP to balance the ticket.
 
SkyEmperor said:
Well, Roosevelt was in office.
He threatened to nationalise the Pennsylvania coal fields if the operators wouldnt negotiate with the labor. (it was an empty threat, but it worked).

McKinley was way less hands on, so he probably would have watched the events unfold. I think the coal strike would be the beginning of a deterioration in labor relations. with out TR's trust-busting things could get real nasty. What do you guys think?
Probably ought to post your ideas as just outlines, rather than a story.
 
March 2, 1901

In a surprise Vote the Platt admendnent is narrowly defeated, news of this leads to bitter agrument in Havana, and the Consitution Committee is Tempeary Adjourned.
 
ARGH! EVERYTHING I JUST TYPED DISAPPEARED! :mad: :(

Ok, so, timeline of the hybrid car. Here's some stuff from OTL:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/dsm/DSM20031101HH.html
Stuff that would help out would be an earlier WWI, especially if it majorly disrupts oil production (as opposed to just oil consumption). Didn't Oth say that at the turn of the century, 51% of all oil was from Azerbaijan? :cool:
Also, this draft is, of course, very rough. I'm sure many of the events you settle on in the timeline will affect these.

Anyway, here's a draft:

1901
Ferdinand Porsche showcases his hybrid vehicle at the Pan-American Exposition (which ran from May to November, might last longer if McKinley survives). There, he meets Henry Ford, and the two becomes friends.
1902
The Henry Ford Company is renamed the Cadillac Automobile Company after the departure of Ford (OTL).
1903
The Ford Motor Company is founded. Henry Ford hires Porsche as one of his top designers.
The Paris Electric Car Company releases the 1903 Krieger, a hybrid car designed for urban use (OTL).
1907
Ford releases the Model R, analoguous to OTL's Model T. The car is an instant hit (basically, I just pushed Model T back 2 model series, to give Ford a bit more of an edge).
1909
Ford buys Cadillac and establishes it as a 'cutting edge' division for the company. Porsche is chosen to head the new division.
1913
Ford releases the Cadillac Model 30GE (gasoline-electric), the company's first hybrid vehicle. Interestingly, it is considered primarily an electric vehicle with a gasoline engine to back up the electric motor, as evidenced by the small gas tank. The car is popular in urban areas and especially with delivery services.
1917
The first diesel-electric locomotive enters service. (bumped up 1 year from OTL, due to increased interest in the field)
Ford releases the Cadillac Metropolitan, their first automobile to be marketed as a hybrid vehicle.
1925
For released the Model V, the first hybrid vehicle from the company's main division.
 
Ohh, I just realized something! Sports history! Ohh, we could have so much fun here!

1903: Boston wins the first of its hundred consecutive world series. :D

:confused:

What? Why're you looking at me like that? :eek:

Anyway, teams move to different places, get different names, different players get traded (Babe Ruth comes to mind, lets send him to Chicago), etc. But, more importanty, so much of sports is randomness. We'll obviously be dealing with different weather and such, due to the butterfly effect, which will change every game played after a year or two. However, some stuff could still be in the cards:
- Black Sox Scandal, an analogue, or lack thereof. If not present, baseball might be integrated earlier, as it prompted the creation of a commisioner for baseball, the first of which, Landis, opposed integretion.
- for my own personal tastes, when Fenway Park is built (as I very much want it to be), the old Huntington Avenue Grounds are not torn down and are kept as an athletic field when Northeastern University buys it. I go to NU, and our outdoor athletic fields are pretty sketchy. Besides, the HAG is historic as the site of the first world series (assuming boston still is in it, or, for that matter, there is a world series)
- The New York Yankees remain the New York Highlanders. I don't like the sullying of the name yankee. New York's not part of New England, so they shouldn't be able to call themselves Yankees
- Ok, enough with baseball. Think of cricket. From what I understand, Britain and Australia have almost come to diplomatic blows over cricket games. This is AH gold- no, platinum.

On a related note (well not really, but bear with me), we could have some fun with pictures. For example, if we have porsche emigrating to the US, then we could take a picture of a panzer, and say its a US tank (lets hope we can avoid the swastika or iron cross).
 

Glen

Moderator
SkyEmperor said:
yeah, things should be pretty shaky when it comes to labor relations. McKinley was very laissez faire (not necessarily bad). He probably wouldnt be much of a trust-buster, and that could give real fire power to types like Upton Sinclair and Eugene Debbs, but maybe im thinking too long term.

No, you're thinking right. Just build up that line of thinking so it is plausible. The divergence has already started, just slowly enlarge it.
 

Glen

Moderator
reformer said:
Feb 15, 1904, Mark Hana is not invected by Typhoid feaver, and continues to campaign for the upcoming election.

1904: Republican National Convention, Chicago
Old Guard Republicans and party machines fear Roosevelt, who recieves 432 votes on the first ballot, not quite a majority and a long shot from 2/3. The other votes are spread around thin among severall favorite sons. Many conservative Republicans back Mark Hana, mastermind of the previous administration or Charles Fairbanks, a pro-trust former corprate lawyer. As it becomes clear that Roosevelt doesn't have enough support, Hana gains power. By the 7th ballot it becomes clear that Hana doesn't have quite enough rural or progressive support, thoug Fairbanks seems like a fair option. By the 16th ballot and the second day the two are neck and neck, with Roosevelt far behind. Desperate for another solution, moderate Republicans wire Admiral Dewey, who had considered running in 1900, to offer his canidacy. Roosevelt drops out and supports Dewey. The admiral agrees, and quickly Fairbanks looses some of his support. Hana, seeing that his chances are gone, leaves the race and encourages his supporters to vote for Fairbanks. Dewey is too mysterious a figure for the estabolished Republicans, who start working against him on the sidelines. Dewey recieves 539 votes at his highest point, but does not have the support for a full 2/3. Elihu Root, popular McKinley confinante and sucessful Secretary of War emmerges as a comprimise canidate, and wins 2/3 majority by the 32nd ballot. Fairbanks is chosen as VP to balance the ticket.

This is very well thought out and sounds plausible.

I'm going to accept this unless people have some problem with plausibility.
 

Glen

Moderator
DominusNovus said:
Probably ought to post your ideas as just outlines, rather than a story.

Short vinettes are okay, just so long as you at least give me a year, and if they are a short event a day or week or month.
 
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