WWII with Russian Empire

Hrmm. The Wages of Destruction gives the Germans a slightly larger GDP than the USSR within its 1938 borders. (351 v. 359), but is based on PPP, which I am not a fan of for this sort of analysis.
It is more realistic for military output however, as in both countries the military production was almost completely domnestic.

CanadianGoose said:
You left two very important questions unanswered:
1) Does your "Russian Economy of 1913" include Poland and Finland (I bet it does)?
What about Alsace-Lorraine, the Polish Corridor, Danzig and Upper Silesia? (And some small territories bordering Belgium and Denmark.)

And don't forget the effects of the hyperinflation of the 1920s, the French occupation of the Ruhr and the reparations the Germans had to pay.

Meanwhile, the USSR just defaulted on the debt they inherited from the Russian Empire.


You can argue both ways.
 
What about Alsace-Lorraine, the Polish Corridor, Danzig and Upper Silesia? (And some small territories bordering Belgium and Denmark.)

And don't forget the effects of the hyperinflation of the 1920s, the French occupation of the Ruhr and the reparations the Germans had to pay.

Meanwhile, the USSR just defaulted on the debt they inherited from the Russian Empire.


You can argue both ways.
Yes sure. And if all those changes haven't been taken into account by Wozza's source, it makes comparison meaningless. Exactly what I said...
 
Yes sure. And if all those changes haven't been taken into account by Wozza's source, it makes comparison meaningless. Exactly what I said...

No, it makes comparison partial and incomplete. But then it would be any other way. And such numbers are always indicative, with a margin of error of 5-10%.

As the comparison is 1913 with 1940 most of the territory has actually been regained of course.
 
As the comparison is 1913 with 1940 most of the territory has actually been regained of course.
After it had been turned from imperial powerhouse to Polish backward, Poland itself being severely stunted in interwar years. Comparison is still pretty problematic, to say the least.

well why don't we get out of the economic conversation and get back to the war
Because economy drives the war, of course. But I do have several war-related remarks to make:
1. RE is likely bound to trail USSR in aviation armament. I'm very dubious about ShKAS appearing ITTL, so Imperial air force would likely rely on either Maxim or some other kind of standard rifle-calibre MG. Later on either Hispano derivatives or something like MG FF is bound to be adopted. None of OTL Soviet aircraft cannons are likely to appear.
2. One thing RE is likely to share with OTL USSR is being bad with aircraft engines. Soviets were always trailing West in this area and widely resorted to licensing, and Russia would likely to follow the suite.
3. Katyushas may or may not appear. IOTL they were developed by a small group of poorly funded enthusiasts to the point when potential advantages of the weapon became obvious. ITTL they could interest some big army or industry honcho enough to finance their researches until it is ready for demonstration to Army or Air Force.
4. RE is going to have an advantage in AA artillery.
5. Russian Empire might have better car industry in terms of production capacity pre-WWII than USSR had.
 
It is more realistic for military output however, as in both countries the military production was almost completely domnestic.

Okay, I'll bite and am intrigued. If PPP is more realistic and better reflects military output, shouldn't the USSR be significantly larger? It was turning out way more weapons than the Germans in WW2, after all.

Meanwhile, the USSR just defaulted on the debt they inherited from the Russian Empire.

To be honest, this debt was so high that it seems inevitable that Russia would default on it regardless. Which should have interesting effects on Franco-German relations, and Russian economic development. When Mexico refused to pay back debts from Maximilian, French investment in Mexico remained crippled for generations; I don't think the consequences would be as bad here, but the debt issue was a major problem in Franco-Soviet economic relations OTL. So...
 
Okay, I'll bite and am intrigued. If PPP is more realistic and better reflects military output, shouldn't the USSR be significantly larger? It was turning out way more weapons than the Germans in WW2, after all.
That depends on how much of the GDP was used for military production of course.

Now to elaborate on my PPP is a better representation reasoning: PPP represent the industrial output as a function of the domnestic value assigned to the products. As both countries were striving to be as autarkic as possible, the domnestic value (thus PPP representation) of products was what played the major role in determining the output of the military industry.

But GDP (nominal or PPP) is an indicator of the intrinsic capability of the economy to sustain a certain level of military production, not the actual output. But you know that too.

It was just that Nazi Germany was criminally inefficient regarding its application of military production.

For example, during 1941-43, Nazi occupied territories produced way more steel than the USSR, but the Soviets still built more tanks...


Or to turn your argument around, with a nominal represtenation of the GDP, the difference between Germany and the USSR would only increase more in the German favour, giving an even more skewed comparison when we take into account the actual military production.
 

Terlot

Banned
GDP will tell a certain amount of things but not all.
Łodz contained the main producers of textiles for Russian Army and the lack of shoes and clothing with the loss of this city had a big negative effect on Bolsheviks while favouring Pilsudski's side. Seems silly but it did happen.

Poland itself being severely stunted in interwar years.
With Russian Empire around Poland would be much richer just like Czechoslovakia, considerably the German position would be weaker as possibility of Russian intervention would be higher-without most of Kresy region in Russian hands it would have little interest in partitioning of Poland with Germans.
 
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