Sarrugi lugal
Banned
What if UK and France didn't war Nazis
Would Barbarossa succeed with resources spent in western front?
Would Barbarossa succeed with resources spent in western front?
WWII but only soviets and Nazis
- Thread starter Sarrugi lugal
- Start date
Garrison
Donor
Well how is Hitler going to turn east with the British and the French at his back? For that matter how could Hitler avoid war with the British and the French? If the Wehrmacht doesn't go into Poland then attacking the USSR is trickier. And honestly barring the forces committed to the Middle East there isn't much more that could be added to Barbarossa, and then you have to supply them.
Sarrugi lugal
Banned
May be Britain and France would let it go like Czechoslovakia because they were incapable of defending poland even in OTL
One reason why Hitler invaded Western Europe was for the resources he could use to invade the USSR. With no conquest of France the effort to successfully invade the USSR is greatly impeded and so it wouldn’t have been launched.
Garrison
Donor
No after the occupation of Prague there was massive pressure for some sort of action in the British Parliament. The guarantee to Poland was all but inevitable and Chamberlain would have faced the sack if he tried to back out. The threat of war with the UK and France was the threat intended to stop Hitler from trying to seize Poland. And of course attacking France was part of Hitler's plan all along. He wanted revenge for 1918, to reclaim Alsace-Lorraine and to eliminate what was perceived as the most powerful army in Europe at that time.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
Assuming the intention is to have Britain & France as neutrals, and no Pacific War, then it depends who Britain, France & the US sell their arms to.
If Britain, France and the US are "neutral", then I'd say they support Germany. Now it depends on how this happens; If say, the USSR charges all the way through Poland and then crosses into Germany, then I think there is definitely going to be a lot of support to Germany, against the Communists.
Garrison
Donor
If you want all three of them not only neutral but willing to support Germany you are going to have to have a completely different 1930s.
Of course. But Neutral GB/France was the original post. So, if they are neutral, then I think Germany attacking Poland can be butterflied. My own way of making that work would be for the USSR to attack Poland, and then have Germany attack the USSR.
Garrison
Donor
Well the OP isn't that specific and seemed to be implying they simply decide to abandon Poland. Either way you need a major POD in the early 30s.
If UK and France are neutral, Poland may be tempted to seek an alliance with the USSR. Although Poland is between a rock and a very hard place ITTL, stuck between two countries who'd rather integrate Poland in their country.
They're going to have to drink a lot of leaded tea/wine/coffee to support nazi-Germany after the Germans occupy Czechoslovakia.
In what world is supporting Germany the logical option? After all, if the USSR wins, the WAllies can carve a buffer out of the collapsing Germany. If the Germans win, what buffer is there against the fascists?
On the contrary. There is no love for Communists, so supporting Germany to at least weaken them is a good investment. I imagine there will be no real thought of Germany winning, so simply supporting them to do as much damage to the USSR as possible.
Garrison
Donor
Sorry but if you are talking about Nazi Germany that's going to be a no. They are untrustworthy and given their economic situation its not like the can pay for foreign equipment, they basically had to barter with the Soviets.
You're talking about Nazi-Germany, which 20 years after WW1, wiped their ass with the treaty of Versailles, militarized the Rhineland, annexed Austria, Sudetenland, and then wiped their ass with another treaty. And then they're looking funny at Poland (and yes, they will look funny at Poland with Hitler in charge. I'm sure he'd invade Poland before Stalin does). Even if the UK and France won't support Poland, they sure as hell won't support Germany. Especially France, who knows next up is Alsace-Lorraine. Germany is next door. The USSR is two countries away.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
At this stage, the western powers see Bolshevik Russia as the main threat to their existence. They think they understand Hitler and that the Nazi Govt will work within most of the established rules. All he wants is some land that used to be German, and the little powers can give that up in the interests of peace, can't they? After all, that summed up Munich.
They don't yet know that Hitler is a genocidal maniac who wants a war with them, and then with Stalin, in that order. They know Stalin's of Stalin's purges and the famines, so he is the far greater threat to humanity. They don't yet know of the Holocaust - and probably can't conceive that a modern leader outside Russia would harbour such plans.
Anyway, use the Germans to knock the Soviet Union out of the game, doing our own dirty work, and then see if we can do a deal with Herr Hitler and an exhausted Third Reich.