WWI U.S. Territorial Concessions From Allies

MerryPrankster

In an earlier discussion on the board, I remember someone suggesting the Allies (particularly Britain) would cede territories to the United States in exchange for finance to fight WWI, assuming the U.S. stays uninvolved for a longer period.

I think this was expressed in terms of collateral for loans, but the gist of it was that the United States would end up acquiring extensive new territories, including the Bahamas.

So realistically, what kind of gains could the U.S. expect to make in such a situation? Given how loans would come from private banks and not the government (or would they?), I'm wondering about how exactly the British would mortgage the Bahamas to J.P. Morgan. Or more realistically, would the British be selling territory to the U.S. government and use the money to finance the war effort?

I'd link to the original discussion, but I can't find it.
 

Hoist40

Banned
How much would they be worth? With the ending of slavery and the plantation system, there was little economic benefit in owning most of the British Caribbean island colonies. Economically they had become the backwaters of the British Empire.

Defense wise they had some worth to the British in that they could be used to support the RN and the trade routes, thought I don’t think they needed all the islands for that. The same applies to the US.
 

M79

The Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and British Guyana seem most likely, perhaps with Belize as well. I could see Papua New Guinea or Zanzibar also on the offering block as potential bases for the US Navy.
 

Super_Cool

Probably just the British West Indies.

The USA is happy because it kicks a European power out of the Caribbean, and Britain is happy because it no longer has to fund an economic backwater of the Empire.

Bermuda is too important to give up. Canada is off limits. Newfoundland has too much fish to give up. The Pacific islands that the USA would want are not controlled by Britain, except for perhaps Samoa, but the ANZACs wouldn't like that.
 

Sicarius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Probe!
The North American Treaty, it is later revealed, was a landmark agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom. In 1914, the U.K. finds itself in economic hard times with war looming on the horizon. Fearing that the nation will not survive without a large infusion of capital, the Prime Minister, Herbert Asquith, with the cooperation of King George V, quietly approach the United States and offer, for the sum of one billion dollars, to sell Canada to the United States. President Wilson quickly agrees and pays a down payment of $150 million to seal the deal. Tragedy strikes when, on the same day in May 1914, the American copy of the treaty plunges to the bottom of the Hudson River when the steam locomotive Manhattan Limited attempts to cross a downed railroad bridge and the British copy plunges to the bottom of the St. Lawrence River when the liner RMS Empress of Ireland is accidentally rammed by a Norwegian collier. With both nation's copies of the treaty lost and the British cabinet outraged at having Canada sold off without their knowledge, Wilson orders all records of the treaty destroyed and records the $150 million payment as a war loan.

Now that knowledge of the treaty has once again emerged, the President of the United States orders NUMA and Dirk Pitt to attempt to recover the copies of the treaty, which have both lain submerged for more than 70 years. The treaty becomes the cornerstone in the President’s plan to save the United States from national bankruptcy by proposing an audacious plan, to merge the United States and Canada into one nation, "the United States of Canada."

The British see the loss of Canada to the United States as the start of the unacceptable and unthinkable disintegration of their Empire. If Canada is allowed to leave the Empire, so too might Australia, or even Wales and Scotland. The British Secret Intelligence Service recalls one of their best former agents, Brian Shaw, from retirement and orders him to keep an eye on the American salvage efforts and to ensure the destruction of the North American Treaty at all costs.
Click to expand...
This is obviously ridiculous in so many ways, but I couldn't resist.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Super_Cool said:
Probably just the British West Indies.

The USA is happy because it kicks a European power out of the Caribbean, and Britain is happy because it no longer has to fund an economic backwater of the Empire.

Bermuda is too important to give up. Canada is off limits. Newfoundland has too much fish to give up. The Pacific islands that the USA would want are not controlled by Britain, except for perhaps Samoa, but the ANZACs wouldn't like that.
Click to expand...

Nor would the Samoans.
But about the only other concessions worth having would be places like Nauru or French Polynesia maybe, but there's also the Japanese to consider, and they might be interested in buying some of the more strategic/economically valuable territories as well.

Like Nauru, with it's massive phosphate deposits.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
When I was playing around with ideas for my TL, looking for UK buffs, I toyed with purchases of something by the USA. I came to the conclusion that direct purchases of highly populated areas would cause both the USA and the UK issues. Now something like the Yukon maybe sold, but would the USA really want it? How much is it worth? The valuable real estate tends to have people on it who may not be enthusiastic on the USA buying them. I think the more likely way would be private concessions to private USA companies/trust back by both the USA and UK. So here are the types of things that might be on the table.

1) 99 year lease on the Salmon of BC or Cod of the east coast of Canada. Probably bought by some group put together by JP Morgan. This is a much more face saving type of way to do things than USA annexes BC. So image say Seattle Fisheries Trust loaning say 100 million to the Canadian government back by the fishing rights. The lease can be terminated early if the loan is repaid. (number made up on the loan amount)

2) Interest in Canadian Railroads could be quite attractive to USA investors.

3) Same with things in the Caribbean.

4) Sell Yukon Gold mines to private USA company. Or long-term lease.

Now everyone would understand that if the Canadian government decide to seize the concessions early, the USA would intervene in Canada.
 

katchen

Banned
The Republicans would have had to win the 1916 Election and Charles Evan Hughes become President. Woodrow Wilson was far too idealistic to get paid in territory or anything else. He had a hard time accepting the Danish Virgin Islands when it was offered to the US and as I recall, turned down Greenland.
British Caribbean Islands are out. The excuse is too many African-Americans but the real reason is that the US wants no new sugar land that will compete with existing sugar producers.

The sale of government owned railroads both in the British Commonwealth and in Germany to American railroad companies would be a distinct possibility. As would a land grant to build a railroad across British Columbia into Alaska now that areas that can support farming in Alaska have been identified. The US is not socialist in 1920 and still looks to old solutions like homesteading and free land to ease the pain of the postwar economic depression.

The US Interstate Commerce Commission would want to carefully micromanage which US railroads could buy the Canadian National Railroads so as not to interfere with competition between US railroads and give any US railroad an unfair advantage. Believe it or not, the US government cared about such things at that time.

The US might buy Australian railroads and Indian railroads on a similar basis. And South African-Rhodesian. The hardest railroads to get the British government to part with would be those in Ireland and the UK itself, obviously. Then American companies would look at things like power companies and British and Australian Telecom. And free trade with the Commonwealth/Empire.

Yes, that's how the US would get itself paid for saving England's bacon.
 

Vault Dweller

It seems extremely unlikely that the Canadian or Australian governments would agree to territorial concessions, nor would the UK have much ability to compel them to do so.
 

Pesterfield

[QUOTE but the real reason is that the US wants no new sugar land that will compete with existing sugar producers.[/QUOTE] If they're worried about competion why not take the islands to make them stop producing sugar?
 
Tallest Skil

Tallest Skil

Banned
Pesterfield said:
If they're worried about competion why not take the islands to make them stop producing sugar?
Click to expand...

That's not a solution, and that's certainly not free market. Why can't whatever corporations be folded into the existing sugar producers and they all get a boost to production?
 

katchen

Banned
Because if they're outside the US, their sugar can't be sold in the US. It's tariffed and quotaed out. But if it's annexed, it becomes part of the US. That's why Hawaii had to start growing pineapple in the 1890s to prove to American Senators that it could grow something besides sugar so that the Senate would approve the annexation treaty. And Hawaii is only the size of Delaware.
 
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