WWI, no Americans

I'm trying to write up an AH background for my own version of Deadlands Hell On Earth. One idea I had was no American involvement in WWI. I don't know a lot about the period, so I'm really looking for ideas of the impact on the course of the war and the post-war period.

So, no Americans, how does it affect WWI and the aftermath?
 
No American DoW or ZERO american involvement?

No involvement - Allies wind up broke and without adequate weapons/equipment/supplies - CP victory by end of 1917

No American DoW - Spring Offensive success, possibility of Paris being captured and a CP-friendly being signed by Fall 1918.

Either way, most likely CP victory

EDIT: For the aftermath, France and Russia go communist, Britain becomes isolationist (empire only), Germany stays imperial, and US stays isolationist/only involved in Latin America
 
The Allies still win WWI because Germany fails utterly in this war as it would in the next at war above the lesser, tactical level and as such wins expensive victories it can't follow through.
 
Really? Just how many of these threads do we need? They seem to be coming practically weekly. There's one just about eight lines below this thread on the front page as I type.
 
Really? Just how many of these threads do we need? They seem to be coming practically weekly. There's one just about eight lines below this thread on the front page as I type.


A lot of people are reluctant to come in to a thread that already runs into hundreds of messages. Either you have to read through a huge amount of previous material or risk asking something that was answered days ago. So some folk prefer to start a new thread even if the old one isn't finished yet.

It irritates me sometimes, but to a degree I can understand it.
 
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No American DoW or ZERO american involvement?

No involvement - Allies wind up broke and without adequate weapons/equipment/supplies - CP victory by end of 1917

No American DoW - Spring Offensive success, possibility of Paris being captured and a CP-friendly being signed by Fall 1918.

Either way, most likely CP victory

EDIT: For the aftermath, France and Russia go communist, Britain becomes isolationist (empire only), Germany stays imperial, and US stays isolationist/only involved in Latin America

it wouldnt be a cp victory if america did little to nothing...the cps were weak and falling apart as well, in fact they were suffering more than the western allies...its more likley theyd still lose but with better conditions
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Easy CP win, the date and details depend on how you define "no Americans", the various leaders reactions, and the butterflies.
 
it wouldnt be a cp victory if america did little to nothing...the cps were weak and falling apart as well, in fact they were suffering more than the western allies...its more likley theyd still lose but with better conditions


Could you clarify what you mean by "did little or nothing"?

America entered the war in April 1917, when it had run little more than half its course, so the CP's were nowhere near falling apart at that stage.

And US abstention has deducted $7.5 billion in loans - not sure what that would be in 2012 dollars, but believe me it's a lot - and all the war material that they bought. So GB and France either call it a day in 1917 - maybe take the Pope up on his peace proposal - or go into 1918 significantly weaker than OTL. And even with the US, 1918 was quite a close call.
 
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Could you clarify what you mean by "did little or nothing"?

America entered the war in April 1917, when it had run little more than half its course, so the CP's were nowhere near falling apart at that stage.

Yes, but the US couldn't really send troops or use them in the battlefield until 1918 when it was already too late for any CP victory.
 
Easy CP win, the date and details depend on how you define "no Americans", the various leaders reactions, and the butterflies.

Unless the POD is in 1915, no, it's a bloody and difficult Allied victory by virtue of the absence of imagination on the part of Hindenburg and Ludendorff and their pyrrhic victory hollowing out the German Empire for no ultimate gain even for themselves.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
And US abstention has deducted $7.5 billion in loans - not sure what that would be in 2012 dollars, but believe me it's a lot - and all the war material that they bought. So GB and France either call it a day in 1917 - maybe take the Pope up on his peace proposa - or go into 1918 significantly weaker than OTL. And even with the US, 1918 was quite a close call.

Adjusted for inflation, it is near 750 billion. Adjusted for size of the world economy, it is closer to 7.5 Trillion USD.
 
Could you clarify what you mean by "did little or nothing"?

America entered the war in April 1917, when it had run little more than half its course, so the CP's were nowhere near falling apart at that stage.

And US abstention has deducted $7.5 billion in loans - not sure what that would be in 2012 dollars, but believe me it's a lot - and all the war material that they bought. So GB and France either call it a day in 1917 - maybe take the Pope up on his peace proposa - or go into 1918 significantly weaker than OTL. And even with the US, 1918 was quite a close call.

his question is if america doesnt get involved in the first world war....thats what i meant by did little TO nothing

and im not saying that the western allies wouldnt have being financialy ruined and that, but the cp powers werent in better condition....the ottomans were already falling apart, austria-hungary was dealing with crisis and the germans stuck in stalemate...they couldnt budge or do anything but surrender by the point the americans came in anyways....and i did say the cp powers wouldve got better terms by the end, but theyd've still lost
 
his question is if america doesnt get involved in the first world war....thats what i meant by did little TO nothing

and im not saying that the western allies wouldnt have being financialy ruined and that, but the cp powers werent in better condition....the ottomans were already falling apart, austria-hungary was dealing with crisis and the germans stuck in stalemate...they couldnt budge or do anything but surrender by the point the americans came in anyways....and i did say the cp powers wouldve got better terms by the end, but theyd've still lost

And so you'd get a world in which no country has the finance to trade with the USA, an earlier Great Depression and a Europe gearing up for round 2.
Not a happy world, all things considered.
 
And so you'd get a world in which no country has the finance to trade with the USA, an earlier Great Depression and a Europe gearing up for round 2.
Not a happy world, all things considered.

did i say id be happy?...was i the one who proposed the whole question?

no...im not saying itd be a better world for anyone, but thats what would be one logical outcome
 
Yes, but the US couldn't really send troops or use them in the battlefield until 1918 when it was already too late for any CP victory.


It was only too late because the Allies could fall back on unlimited US reinforcements in the event of a defeat. They know that all they have to do is survive, and they have an unlimited manpower reserve to replace their losses. Thus they have every incentive to hang on, even if things are going badly. Absent the US they have no such assurance, and a defeat in 1918 could easily be permanent. As previously mentioned, they are also short $7.5 billion worth of raw materials and equipment of various kinds, so such a defeat is distinctly more likely.
 
And so you'd get a world in which no country has the finance to trade with the USA .


Germany would. She has imported very little since Aug 1914, so not much money has gone out of the country. She has of course spent a lot on war material, but so had the Allies OTL, and they were still able to trade with the US.
 
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