WWI becomes the 2nd Franco-Prussian War

Okay, so I'm interested in creating sort of a steampunk TL dominated by the German Empire, Great Britain, and the United States. Some major points would be for airplanes to not become very developed, for trains to be the major form of ground transportation with the automobile being more of a novelty in all but the largest cities, and with airships being common for continent to continent travel.

My thinking would be for around the turn of the century having a war break out between France and Germany, with England not interfering. Then later on, a smaller war between Germany/Austria and Russia.

This idea is still kind of on the back burner as I'm still working on finishing the airship TL that I've got going, but it's my next project.

Any thoughts?
 

nbcman

Donor
I think creating a 2nd Franco-Prussian war is easier to achieve than reducing the impact that the internal combustion engine had (automobiles, trucks and airplanes).

1. Wilhelm II does not let the Russian-German Reinsurance Treaty of 1887 expire. IOTL it was allowed to lapse in 1890 which resulted in the Russians and the French signing their alliance in 1892. This would keep the Russians out of the Franco-Prussian war.

2. The Fashoda incident (1898) between France and Britain either results in war or a rift between the two powers such that the British will not support the French in the next crisis.

3. The Moroccan crisis (1905) between France and Germany goes hot which results in the 2nd Franco-Prussian/German War.

4. Frans Ferdinand still gets shot in Sarajevo. Russia backs the Serbs and Germany backs A-H.

But neither of the above 2 wars would be 'World' wars barring other events.
 
Regarding Internal Cumbustion Engine not beeing developed (as much) in this TL:

Possible Tech TL:
In 1797 Samuel Morey's steam powered paddle boat attracts financial backing and becomes a commercial success (unlike OTL). This advances interest in steam power but, more importantly, the enterprise requires Samuel's full attention. As a result he does not experiment with vapor combustion and does not develop internal combustion technologies.

In 1823 Samuel Brown sets to demonstrate an internal combustion engine in a local Eagle Lodge but an explosive boiler failure kills Samuel Brown and several spectators.

In 1851 Eugenio Barsanti approaches Felice Matteucci with his ideas of using explosive gasses to power an engine. Matteucci replies; "The internal combustion engine, although an interesting idea, is best left as a hobby for suicidal English coopers." (here he was refering to the death of Samuel Brown).

By the 1860's gass powered steam engines are efficient enough that interest in competing technolgies waines. Gass powered steam engines could power automobiles and even airships, but probably not airplanes.
 
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The Sandman

Banned
How about this idea, although it's obviously not a post-1900 POD: most of the biomass that was IRL laid down as oil ends up as coal and natural gas instead? While it's a geologic POD, I expect that there'd be some way to justify it as not derailing the entirety of Earth's history. And a world with considerably less oil and far more coal and natural gas will probably get you the steampunk society you want.
 

J.D.Ward

Donor
Is there any way of creating a breakdown in Anglo-Belgian relations between 1839 and 1914, such that by 1914 Britain will no longer be bound by its obligations to maintain the independance and neutrality of Belgium according to the 1839 Treaty of London.

In OTL, this Treaty was Britain's reason for going to war in 1914.
 
Is there any way of creating a breakdown in Anglo-Belgian relations between 1839 and 1914, such that by 1914 Britain will no longer be bound by its obligations to maintain the independance and neutrality of Belgium according to the 1839 Treaty of London.

In OTL, this Treaty was Britain's reason for going to war in 1914.

I'm sure there is. Though I think I'd try and avoid an invasion of Belgium all together. Either that or make a more firm alliance between the UK and Germany to were an invasion of Belgium would not prompt action from the British.

I'd personally like for Britain to be at odds at least diplomatically w/ France, then have war errupts between Germany and France, and gave the UK and Germany later create sone sort of Anglo-German Alliance, which the US will join later on.

As for Russia, either have the Archduke assasinated as in OTL, or have some other event prompt a war b4 1920...
 
Stream of Consciousness... try to keep up.

I endorse the Tech post above, and most of the alternate diplomatic issues above as well.

Not so much the geological, though interesting...

I don't like the idea of the Moroccan Crises being the flashpoint for a war. Germany wasn't all that big on colonial issues, and it was really just a means to show the world that they were an Empire as well.

Nor do I see a breakdown in Belgian/British affairs.

Austria posed 12 points (I think) to Serbia after the Archduke is assassinated, and Serbia allowed for 11. Maybe Serbia goes with the full 12, and the war is averted for the time being.

Germany and Russia are allied, of sorts.
France stands alone.
AH gets embroiled in a Balkans war or two, maybe with the Ottomans or with the Serbs or somesuch. Russia might wish to "help" the AH against the Ottomans, IF the Serbs are left with some kind of Autonomy.

Perhaps France pulls a Hitler and starts crying about the Metz corridor or somesuch, and Germany reacts with blistering speed.

Poland uprising. Germany doesn't mind an independent Poland, Russia does. War pulls in AH.

Ramblings. Ignore unless you find something you like.
 
I like the Tech TL as well.

I think having the Fashoda Incident touch of either a minor conflict or at least a major diplomatic rift between France and the UK. With the UK distancing themselves from France, Germany sees an oportunuty and creates a new alliance with the UK. Also I'd have the treaty between Germany and Russia not expire.

At some point later, maybe either 1913 or 14, have a dispute between France and Germany that will errupts into War. The UK assists in small ways, and America, though 'neutral' sends supplies and such to the Anglo-German Alliance. France looses, harsh terms forced in treaty (loss of colonies and limits on military)

During the War America will join the AGA
 
Okay, so the actual PoD for this entire thing would be with the above proposed Tech TL, but my second major one would be that Germany doesn't allow the treaty with Russia to lapse in 1887.

Then the Fashoda Incident in 1912 sparks minor skirmishes in Africa and creates a serious rift between France and the UK, and causes the British to become more pro-German.

In late 1913, the UK and Germany create the Anglo-German Alliance.

In 1914, war errupts between France and Germany, to become the Second Franco-Prussian War, or the Franco-German war.

The F-G War ends in late 1915, with Northern France occupied. While the UK doesn't get involved in Europe, it does start a colonial conflict in Africa with France.
Post-2ndFrancoPrussian-1.jpg


In 1917, France attempts to liberate its occupied territory, sparking off the Great European War. This will be the end of France. The UK invades from the Northwest, Italy from the Southeasts. Britain and Italy and Germany also take action in Africa. At the end of 1917, the French gov't flees for Algeria. In the Pacific, the French attack the US held Phillipines, bringing America into the War. British and American troops land in Vietnam in spring of 1918. By the end of the year, the French gov't capitulates, and the war is over.
Post-GreatEuroWar1916-17-1.jpg


In 1919, the Treaty of Madrid formally divides up the former French empire, and creates a rump Republic of Marsaille.
TreatyMadrid1918-1.jpg


In 1924, Poland revolts from Imperial Russia, and Germany backs the Poles. This sparks off the Russian War, primarily between Germany/AH and Russia, until 1926, when the Russians attempt to open up a second front by promising the ailing Chinese Imperial Gov't that if China will go to war with the other powers that Russia will support it. This sparks off the Sino-European War.

The Russian War ends in 1927, with Russia loosing 'Poland', and loosing it's Black Sea coast to Austria-Hungaria and the Ottoman Empire.
EndofGreatRussianWar24-27.jpg


The Sino-European War ends in 1929 with the signing of the Treaty of Tokyo. Russia looses big, and China ceases to exist, divided up amongst the A-G-A and Japan.
TreatyTokyo1929.jpg


Please feel free to nit-pick, this is all still very crude and basic.
 
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