WW3 in 1945

Really?

an attack of the allies towars the USSR when the US is still occupied in the pacific is a political suicide.

Atomic weapons good, try to get them fly from germany at best into Moscow.

No carrier capable aircraft are capable of transporting a nuke by 1945 so yeah the navy at best would make secondary fronts

USSR won't revolt they just survived the war against germany and the allies have treason them so yeah.

allied forces will be overrun in germany and then Stalin will ask for a truce he knows that the USSR is in its last legs.

Air raids? most of the soviet industrial capacity is at home and the USSR air force do have capable high altitude fighters and high altitude bombers mean nothing in tactical level

also the soviets were good at hiding were they where going to attack

english intelligence is filled with soviet agents

many guns of the USSR outranges the Allied equivalents

lets not forget that the USSR has more experiance in destroying big group of forces without giving opportunity to do something

so yeah unless Stalin is an idiot and doesn't stop at the french frontier the USSR wins
 

iddt3

Donor
For strategic air raids to be effective against the Soviet Union, they have to fly well beyond the range of Anglo-American fighter cover. The Soviets do have aircraft that can perform well at high-altitudes... indeed, the MiG--3 could only perform well at high altitudes, which is why they were ultimately phased out of front line fighter regiments and largely kept in reserve ones. So the Soviets definitely can cope with the Western Allies strategic bombing wings to some degree.

Briefly flying small numbers of aircraft into the very edges of a countries air space is a completely different ballgame from flying huge numbers of aircraft deep into the depths of a continent-sized nation for extended periods of time.
They don't have a proper Air Defense net to vector the fighters to the bomber streams nor the rings of AA to channel said bomber streams where the fighters are. They have an insane amount of rather vulnerable logistical hubs to defend, and they haven't prepared for it. The Soviets can build such a network, no question, but not overnight, and probably not while pursuing a massive ground offensive in the west.

In addition, the Mig-3 would be a very poor bomber killer. It's lightly armed (3 MGs, only one is 50 cal) and had poor sights so i needed to close to close range with it's targets (sub ideal with the heavily armed B-29). Plus there are none left in active combat units by 1945, so you need to move them from training/reserve units, and none of those training/reserve units are in the areas of eastern Europe where your logistic hubs are most vulnerable.
 
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. In 1945 the USSR was still dependent on L-L for many key raw materials and finished products, as well as spare parts - no spare parts and US/UK gear stops working, and you need to cannibalize. The supply chain from the USSR to Germany was very tenuous, and even if Allied air does not penetrate right away in to Soviet territory, they can tear up supply routes very effectively. In 1945 Soviet air that was operating west of the 1939 border was almost all TACAIR and no significant air defense system, as there was limited if any Luftwaffe threat except over the front where low level AA was employed. There was very limited Soviet radar, most supplied by L-L, and the Allies could pretty quickly fly in over the Baltic from bases established in Norway, no coverage there to speak of in 1945...yes some Soviet fighters could perform at altitude (not lots available) but no real nightfighters, and without radar warning they have to take off and get to altitude before the bombers get to target - not easy. Oh, and remember in 1945 a lot of the best/highest octane AVGAS comes via L-L. when that stops, the effectiveness of the Red Air Force drops rapidly.

Yes the Soviets can advance in Germany in summer 1945, but they won't win. Remember the USA can dial back the war in the Pacific and simply starve Japan, and mop up any outlying garrisons they need to.

In April 1945 the Soviet Union was exhausted and wrecked. The USA was in great shape, had lots of untapped manpower and a well oiled manufacturing base cranking out all the war material they could ever use.
 
The only way for this to happen, IMO, is if BOTH sides think they other side is at fault. Minor skirmishes between East and West escalate. Patton shoots off his mouth. Stalin postures. Churchill postures. Each thinks the other guy will back down....

But, ja, the USSR is going to be in a world of hurt trying to push forward to the Rhine.

Americans sometimes think that LL was all that kept the Soviets going, which is demonstrably false. But it is also true that Soviet mobility was very much a LL think, with the number of trucks and locomotives shipped over. Not to mention high octane avgas for the planes.

Ja. I wouldn't be surprised if they made it to the Rhine, but then got pushed back all the way to their own border.
 
I honestly think the American public would rise in electoral revolt if another war was declared right after the first. My impression was the American public was tired of war and that is one of the reasons the generals wanted to avoid downfall
 
1) I think it is well enough established--Stalin has no motive to want a war in the mid-40s. All the liabilities that suggest the West might win would be painfully well known to him.

2) If western air forces are so damn superior* and the Americans have The Bomb, how feasible then is a Western victory over the USSR, if hostilities start in 1945?

The catch about the atomic bomb is, the Americans have--a classified number of them; even President Truman did not know how many--he, in General Leslie Groves's opinion, did not need to know that. But in 1945, they'd be counted in single digits. After Nagasaki I am not sure we had even one more Fat Man bomb actually ready to go; it would not have been prudent to use the last one in case the Japanese were to remain so defiant as to challenge us to an immediate encore, to prove it wasn't a one-shot trick, I suppose, but we couldn't have had more than a couple more ready if that.

The catch here is the same thing that is the major factor inhibiting proliferation of nuclear weapons to this day--it is not easy to come by weapons-grade fissionables. The USA alone had at least two parallel tracks turning out such materials, U-235 and plutonium--but it was trickling out of them. I'm not sure if Britain had any processing going on after they turned over Tube Alloys information (and people) over to the USA--I suspect they suspended such operations and hoped the Americans would succeed (and share as the gentleman's agreement between Churchill and FDR promised--which we did not.:rolleyes:)

So--weapons-grade materials for Fat Man bombs were in very short supply; the slow rate at which they accumulated accounted for the delay until that design could be tested at Trinity and then the delay of more months to be ready to use it on Nagasaki--it took that long to accumulate enough plutonium to then assemble the next bomb.

Obviously the folks at Oak Ridge and Hanford and new plants were able to pick the pace up over the next decade; by 1950 I suppose we had hundreds of bombs of various sizes and types on hand, and had expended quite a few more in tests. But as late as the Operation Crossroads tests at Bikini in July 1946, there were, according to Jonathan Weisgall's 1994 book on the subject (which IIRC I've read) there were a grand total of seven bombs in the US inventory!:eek: (If there were zero after Nagasaki, then that implies it would take almost two months to accumulate the plutonium, which jibes pretty well with the interval between the Trinity test and the attack on Nagasaki--if we had a prudent reserve of one or two on hand then, it implies an even slower pace). Crossroads was the first test after Trinity and the wartime use on two Japanese cities, so there weren't more bombs that had been used in tests by that point. The Wiki article repeats some of what Weisgall discussed in the book about the political controversy around the tests, which came from different directions--it is very noteworthy, in discussing whether the Western powers would have the will to attack the USSR, that opposition included veteran's organizations, on the grounds that it was obvious sabre-rattling intended to intimidate the Soviets.

Another opponent, IIRC, was General Groves--who obviously would be concerned about depleting nearly half of the USA's total nuclear arsenal on three test shots. (Only two were actually detonated--the "Charlie" third shot, a planned detonation in deep water, was abandoned after the "Baker" shot in the shallow water of the lagoon wrecked much unexpected havoc in the form of radioactive fallout, which badly disrupted Navy plans to salvage ships and investigate them--to save many of the ships from the initial blast damage would have been possible per USN damage control procedures, but not when they were drenched in lethal levels of radioactive water and mud!)

Another lesson the book highlights was the imprecision of Groves's favored B-29 bomber crews--despite their training and operating in peaceful, relatively safe and unhindered test conditions, they missed dropping the first, Able, airburst shot on target by more than 600 meters (which invalidated a lot of the prepared test conditions on the various ships jam-packed in the harbor). 600 meters off is not going to make much difference in trying to destroy Leningrad or Moscow, true--but how much more would desperate Soviet anti-aircraft measures spoil the aim of these crack crews in serious wartime? It also casts doubt on the possible use of nuclear bombs tactically, to take out large concentrations of Red Army force--either the Americans, overconfident of their allegedly precision bombing, would waste some of their precious handful of bombs on trying to eliminate such a concentration but then miss by half a mile and more, thus failing to eliminate the full force they intended (the Soviet soldiers who were missed might be dead men walking from fallout exposure (if so, so would Western allied soldiers engaging them likely to become as well:eek:) but could probably fight on for some days anyway). Or learning or anticipating these battlefield lessons they'd reserve the big bombs solely for the role of eliminating Soviet cities (hardly the best method for telegraphing one's good will and intention to come as liberators, though a fine enough one for establishing a reputation of ruthless viciousness and spreading sheer terror I guess).

Can they get the bombs to the cities? The B-29 has the range, and good speed at high altitude to make it a difficult target to take out to be sure, especially if each bomb-carrying plane is accompanied by an armada of other B-29s tricked out to look like the nuclear-carrier modified version, leaving the enemy guessing which one of dozens to concentrate on shooting down. And it is certainly true enough OTL that for many years to come after WWII ended, various western planes on scouting missions--including the giant but piston-engined B-36, IIRC, and certainly later Canberra and jet B-47 missions--accomplished amazing feats of penetration, eluding all Soviet air defenses on "spy" flights.

If the USA had hundreds of bombs and hundreds of bombers to carry them, we can be pretty sure the majority of them would find their targets and destroy them (at least soft targets such as cities; it might take real precision work to take out bunkers) despite the improved Soviet state of air defenses well after 1945. I don't know that most would get out again, but their mission would be accomplished.

But in 1945 the USA does not have hundreds, nor even dozens, not even ten--the sooner we imagine the gung-ho Western assault happening, the more pathetically small the handful is. If the USA has just one bomb, are we going to risk it running the gauntlet of all the air defense the Soviets can muster or improvise, to reach a distant target like Moscow? I suppose if the war can be supposed to happen, Leningrad would not last long, and if the Russians in the Far East are enough of a nuisance, Vladivostok might not last much longer. But the deeper into Russia the strike must run, the more epic the task and risk of delivering that one available bomb all the way to its target, the greater the odds that the mission will fail and even result in delivering a good chunk of weapons-grade fissionables straight into the hands of Stalin's top cop Lavrenti Beria, to hand over to Dr Kurchatov or the young hotshot Sakharov to fashion into a bomb of their own.:eek:

Possession of the infrastructure to make atomic bombs will be an advantage, but it won't be a war-deciding one for years.

Consider the geography--Western forces will be face to face with the bulk of the Red Army, based in their conquered Eastern European territories as much because behind them, the Soviet Union is a devastated wasteland that at the moment has little housing or food for them as because Stalin wants them there to occupy the territories. The Army in Europe is in range of the western air forces (inasmuch as we discount the ability of the Soviet air forces to keep them out, which we do at our peril) but not concentrated in any one place enough to make a nuclear strike cost-effective. Behind them--a vast wasteland under painful reconstruction--Groves's bomber can probably reach Minsk all right but is it worth a nuke in its current state of disarray? And far to the east--the lands the Soviets managed to keep Hitler out of, including Moscow itself to be sure--but even nuking Moscow will not have the same effect as say taking out Paris would have on France. During Barbarossa the Soviet regime evacuated Moscow (except for Stalin himself, who defiantly stayed there--he won't do that if he thinks the city might be nuked though) and moved farther yet to the east, to the Urals and beyond, where factory cities built in the 1930s operated all through the war beyond Hitler's reach. If the US air forces can strike that far, they can start to mess up the real industrial core of the Soviet Union that fought the Great Patriotic war. But no one target will mean "game over." If over several years the ruined centers start adding up to numbers counted in tens, I suppose that will amount to a serious sapping of Soviet abilities. But the Western armies must in the mean time endure fighting the same army that stopped Hitler's legions and dogged their heels back home until they had no more homes left to retreat to.

So never mind that the Americans have nukes. If they are truly resolved to crush the USSR they can I suppose keep the Russians so occupied they have no time and resources left to make any nukes of their own--for one thing, while eventually sources of uranium were found deep in the USSR itself (you can find just about any mineral you like in Siberia, if one can endure the conditions or anyway force some slave-prisoners to, and has the time to look--they even found helium eventually) in the mid-40s I've been told they didn't know of them and had to get all of it from eastern Europe--from East Germany at first, later of course from Czechoslovakia. I suppose the Western assault will deny them those sources.

But while the West need not worry the Soviets will eventually retaliate in kind, the handful they have available in the mid-decade are effectively irrelevant to this anti-Soviet crusade. Wait a decade and of course it is an entirely different matter. For now, it is a long hard grind of conventional force against conventional force.

Given the will, I suppose the USA can back up sufficient effort to grind the Red Army down. If one is counting on Soviet capitulation one is being foolish though. Nothing could validate Kremlin propaganda that equates the capitalist-ruled West with Hitler's manic regime than such a brutal and unprovoked second attack on the Motherland, and this time they are dug in far west of their old frontiers. Most of the fighting would happen there; if the West can win, it will happen west of the old Soviet boundaries, finishing the job Hitler started on turning Eastern Europe into a charnel-house wasteland. The Soviets will obey orders to fight for every meter of ground and to the death, knowing it is the only protection of what is left of their homes. They'll strip the land of every resource it's got, to provide cover for what pathetic logistics their vast rear can supply them with. Perhaps the Western forces can prevail, but (assuming calls for truces fall on deaf ears) only by killing off pretty much the whole Red Army. The day will come when there just aren't any defenders left, then they'll break through, to find pathetic but desperate waves of women an children still fighting them.

So if a war of extermination is the dream one wants to pursue, yeah, I suppose maybe the USA might have the sheer industrial potential to accomplish the task, and celebrate mass murder on a level Hitler could only dream of with a dozen nuclear strikes on a dozen Soviet ghost towns afterward, I guess.

The Russians will exact a toll in blood of course, not to mention the sheer economic cost of the military logistics necessary to equip the Western crusaders with the munitions they need to kill the Soviet people in order to save them. I believe the statistics of the German armies fighting their various enemies bear out that they took several of their enemies with them for every one they lost, and I think their kill ratio was even better than average on the Eastern Front. Just suppose the well-equipped Western armies all to a man manage as well as the Germans did on their eastern marvelous adventure, and so, take the number of Red Army forces in uniform in 1945, and divide by say 4. These are the casualties the Western forces can minimally expect.

I have none of these numbers handy. I'm going to guess they are all terribly high though.

Now--with people like Harry Truman, Winston Churchill, Clement Atlee, General Eisenhower, and all the hundreds of other top generals and admirals and political top leaders of the Western nations all well able to estimate these likely costs, just what exactly could motivate them to decide to order such an assault, just months after witnessing what it did to the Third Reich? After several years of telling the democratic publics of the USA and Commonwealth that the Soviets were our staunch allies and we'd build a better world alongside them once Hitler was gone?

I honestly am not sure the feat of turning that wartime message around and getting the American and British people behind years more of the same old grind to bump off one of our allies would be impossible; certainly the Soviets had plenty of ill-wishers before Hitler gave it a bad name. There is certainly the issue of Poland to stand firm on--Britain went to war in the name of Poland's freedom, it might work to assert the Western allies cannot rest until Poland is free again. (Never mind Poland will be effectively ground out of existence by this particular endgame; the principle is surely the thing!:rolleyes:)

But as long as the Western allies retain some vestige of democracy (which they did very strongly in the OTL war) quite a few people will question this sudden turn, and demand some sort of explanation. Support will not be as widely and deeply forthcoming as for putting an end to the Third Reich and Japanese aggression, whereas the sacrifices needed will be just as stark.

So, what would the Western leaders be telling the public? Exactly what motivates this?

Why do they fight, on such a scale?
-------------------
*Remember, the Soviets not only beat the Wehrmacht--accounting for some 2/3 of all European Axis losses in men, and 3/4 their losses in tanks--but beat the Luftwaffe too--not by as impressive a margin, to be sure; they "only" cost Hitler and his allies just half their aircraft losses. But they certainly know a thing or two about defending their air spaces!
 
1) I think it is well enough established--Stalin has no motive to want a war in the mid-40s. All the liabilities that suggest the West might win would be painfully well known to him.

2) If western air forces are so damn superior* and the Americans have The Bomb, how feasible then is a Western victory over the USSR, if hostilities start in 1945?

The catch about the atomic bomb is, the Americans have--a classified number of them; even President Truman did not know how many--he, in General Leslie Groves's opinion, did not need to know that. But in 1945, they'd be counted in single digits. After Nagasaki I am not sure we had even one more Fat Man bomb actually ready to go; it would not have been prudent to use the last one in case the Japanese were to remain so defiant as to challenge us to an immediate encore, to prove it wasn't a one-shot trick, I suppose, but we couldn't have had more than a couple more ready if that.

The catch here is the same thing that is the major factor inhibiting proliferation of nuclear weapons to this day--it is not easy to come by weapons-grade fissionables. The USA alone had at least two parallel tracks turning out such materials, U-235 and plutonium--but it was trickling out of them. I'm not sure if Britain had any processing going on after they turned over Tube Alloys information (and people) over to the USA--I suspect they suspended such operations and hoped the Americans would succeed (and share as the gentleman's agreement between Churchill and FDR promised--which we did not.:rolleyes:)

So--weapons-grade materials for Fat Man bombs were in very short supply; the slow rate at which they accumulated accounted for the delay until that design could be tested at Trinity and then the delay of more months to be ready to use it on Nagasaki--it took that long to accumulate enough plutonium to then assemble the next bomb.

Obviously the folks at Oak Ridge and Hanford and new plants were able to pick the pace up over the next decade; by 1950 I suppose we had hundreds of bombs of various sizes and types on hand, and had expended quite a few more in tests. But as late as the Operation Crossroads tests at Bikini in July 1946, there were, according to Jonathan Weisgall's 1994 book on the subject (which IIRC I've read) there were a grand total of seven bombs in the US inventory!:eek: (If there were zero after Nagasaki, then that implies it would take almost two months to accumulate the plutonium, which jibes pretty well with the interval between the Trinity test and the attack on Nagasaki--if we had a prudent reserve of one or two on hand then, it implies an even slower pace). Crossroads was the first test after Trinity and the wartime use on two Japanese cities, so there weren't more bombs that had been used in tests by that point. The Wiki article repeats some of what Weisgall discussed in the book about the political controversy around the tests, which came from different directions--it is very noteworthy, in discussing whether the Western powers would have the will to attack the USSR, that opposition included veteran's organizations, on the grounds that it was obvious sabre-rattling intended to intimidate the Soviets.
The problem is you're comparing peacetime production to wartime production. If war HAD been declared, we would have produced the bombs quicker. Groves estimated that if the war had continued, by December 1945 he would have been able to produce 7 bombs a month.
 
I agree with all the posters that have said in one way or another that the western leaders (Truman, Churchill, especially Attlee) would not be starting a war against the USSR - especially before Japanese surrender. I agree that the public in the USA and UK would not go for this at all. IMHO the only way this starts is by Stalin losing his mind and doing this, or some sort of incident happening that escalates too rapidly or in such as fashion that diplomacy doesn't work AND it can be blamed on the Soviets.

If Stalin thought he could win such an encounter, I think he would have ramped up the pressure on the western allies, with fallback of conflict. He didn't, because when he added it all up the risk was way greater than the potential benefits. Certainly Stalin had no difficulty expending Russians to achieve his ends, let alone any populations now controlled in Eastern Europe. In 1945 he was in a precarious position vis a vis the Western Allies militarily and he knew it. For all of his brutality Stalin was cautious, and only stuck his neck out when he thought he could - the fact that he guessed wrong in Finland initially, and in Korea (thinking the US would not respond misreading Korea not being defined in US "perimeter") does not mean he wasn't cautious.
 
US had a few bombs ready and much more to come:

Wiki:

"""
Colonel Lyle E. Seeman reported that at least seven Fat Man type plutonium implosion bombs would be available by X-Day, which could be dropped on defending forces. Seeman advised that American troops not enter an area hit by a bomb for "at least 48 hours"; the risk of nuclear fallout was not well understood, and such a short amount of time after detonation would have resulted in substantial radiation exposure for the American troops.[36]
Ken Nichols, the District Engineer of the Manhattan Engineer District, wrote that at the beginning of August 1945, "[p]lanning for the invasion of the main Japanese home islands had reached its final stages, and if the landings actually took place, we might supply about fifteen atomic bombs to support the troops.
"""""""""

The trick is the delivery system.

Insofar as a lot of USSR industries were not sitting int he European part of the USSR, any B-29 had to fly to Siberia and back again. Not so easy.

If nuclear bombs had been used as tactical nukes in Europe, I cannot see that the (remaining) population would welcome US forces after US having flattened Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Rumania, .... and a good load of Germany as well.

It comes down to two options:

USSR invades Western Europe in Summer 1945
I think we have concluded that Stalin would not be this stupid. There would not be any motivation. And even if he had, he could have pulled it off due to the amount of boots on the ground (and generals used to command huge armies).

US/UK attacks USSR - Unthinkable
Well, it was .. unthinkable. It had to rely on German troops and equipment for Barbarossa V2.0.

I am aware that some US generals claimed that the cold war started 1 February 1943. But that is not to say that they could turn it into a hot one.

Accident/incident
It would have to be huge.

A flight of B-17's getting lost on a routine deployment to Germany ending up heading into Eastern Germany and approaching Poland?

A military commander (anyone) getting 'high' and starting shooting in Berlin (even the strikes in Eastern Berlin could not trigger a war).

A nuclear bomb going off in Germany?

A USSR deployment suddenly getting lost and heading for Hamburg?

Ivan
 
I agree with all the posters that have said in one way or another that the western leaders (Truman, Churchill, especially Attlee) would not be starting a war against the USSR - especially before Japanese surrender. I agree that the public in the USA and UK would not go for this at all. IMHO the only way this starts is by Stalin losing his mind and doing this, or some sort of incident happening that escalates too rapidly or in such as fashion that diplomacy doesn't work AND it can be blamed on the Soviets.

If Stalin thought he could win such an encounter, I think he would have ramped up the pressure on the western allies, with fallback of conflict. He didn't, because when he added it all up the risk was way greater than the potential benefits. Certainly Stalin had no difficulty expending Russians to achieve his ends, let alone any populations now controlled in Eastern Europe. In 1945 he was in a precarious position vis a vis the Western Allies militarily and he knew it. For all of his brutality Stalin was cautious, and only stuck his neck out when he thought he could - the fact that he guessed wrong in Finland initially, and in Korea (thinking the US would not respond misreading Korea not being defined in US "perimeter") does not mean he wasn't cautious.

Patton was right when he wanted war with Russia.
 
They don't have a proper Air Defense net to vector the fighters to the bomber streams nor the rings of AA to channel said bomber streams where the fighters are.

They kind of did. The Soviets developed a quite sophisticated air defense detection net based heavily on ground spotters to deal with the few deep raids conducted by the Germans post-1942. It was quite inferior to the Germans and Western Allies RADAR-integrated ground defense but better then nothing. However they largely ignored German raids against their logistical hubs for one specific reason: they were able to repeatedly dupe the Germans about where those hubs were and whether they were still intact.

In terms of protecting the logistical hubs, the Soviets could defend those the same way they defended them against the Luftwaffe: maskirovka. Soviet camouflage and deception techniques were remarkably thorough and effective to the point that the application of almost the same techniques by the Serbs (with only a few modifications) completely negated the impact of the NATO air campaign upon both the Serbian army and it's logistical infrastructure.

To give an example of what this looked like:

USAF spots a rail bridge and promptly bombs it. The Serbs begin rebuilding. The USAF bombs it again. Serbs start rebuilding again. Except that's not what is happening. The Serbs covered the real rail bridge in black freaking plastic and then built a fake bridge out of wood a couple hundred yards away. The USAF kept bombing the wooden bridge while the Serbs kept using their trains.

And none of the deception methods the Sebs used in Kosovo were conceptually new. There was some creative application, but the above heavy use of decoys and camouflage was a tactic that was mature in Soviet doctrine by the end of WWII. Now eventually the Western Allies will (probably) wise up and devise counters, but in the short-medium term the Red Army will definitely be able to support their spearheads.

In addition, the Mig-3 would be a very poor bomber killer. It's lightly armed (3 MGs, only one is 50 cal) and had poor sights so i needed to close to close range with it's targets (sub ideal with the heavily armed B-29).
Except heavily armed B-17s still fell pray to even lightly-armed German interceptors until the Anglo-Americans were able to mount fighter escorts all the way into German territory.

The catch about the atomic bomb is, the Americans have--a classified number of them; even President Truman did not know how many--he, in General Leslie Groves's opinion, did not need to know that. But in 1945, they'd be counted in single digits.

There is a second catch: that "classified number" is freely known to the Soviets. They practically have the Anglo-American bomb project riddled with their spies and they knew down to the exact number how many bombs the Western Allies all the way well into 1946. Hell, Stalin was given a detailed briefing on what the Trinity explosion looked like before Truman was.

*Remember, the Soviets not only beat the Wehrmacht--accounting for some 2/3 of all European Axis losses in men, and 3/4 their losses in tanks--but beat the Luftwaffe too--not by as impressive a margin, to be sure; they "only" cost Hitler and his allies just half their aircraft losses. But they certainly know a thing or two about defending their air spaces!
Your number is slightly off: the Soviets inflicted 80% of total German manpower casualties (90% of German ground manpower casualties).
 
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Just remember though, the Allies have a lot more places to start from. It may be over 3000 km from London to Stalingrad, but from Cairo it's slightly less than 2,400 km, most of it over space the Soviets haven't got any eyes in, and from Basrah it's even closer, just over 2,000 km.
 
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And how far is it from Tehran to the Soviet petroleum complexes....

Tehran, and northern Iran in general, isn't the best place to stage from given that it is under Soviet occupation in 1945.

As to elsewhere in the Middle East: there will be significant lag in getting major airfields and supply lines established capable of hosting the required air armada to sustain an effective air campaign against the Caucasus. Once those are established, the Western Allies can certainly inflict major damage upon Soviet natural crude oil extraction. Even then, the Soviets still have a year's worth of oil supply to work with. Furthermore, they did capture German synthetic oil technology in Silesia and ship it back to the Urals.

So basically we can't expect an WAllied strategic air campaign to seriously affect Soviet fuel supplies until around 1947. That gives the Soviets a good two years to wreck havoc in continental Europe.
 
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And how far is it from Tehran to the Soviet petroleum complexes....
Not far, but then the Soviets were occupying northern Iran during the war, which is why I was looking for bases slightly further afield, because they'd be more secure.

Also, if they launch at Stavropol rather than Stalingrad it about 2,000 km from Cairo, with only perhaps 240 km of that being over Soviet territory, so the Soviets would have limited response capabilities

Just to note, according to wikipedia the B-29 has a combat range of 5,230 km, halve that for radius, so accounting for some emergency reserves, you really want to be looking at ranges of 2,500 km or less.

As to elsewhere in the Middle East: there will be significant lag in getting major airfields and supply lines established capable of hosting the required air armada to sustain an effective air campaign against the Caucasus.
Even in Egypt?
 
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Even in Egypt?

I don't know. Those bases were built to take B-17s and B-24s, not B-29s and didn't they fall out of use once bases in Italy were up and running?

In any case, most of the direct to Soviet air space from Egypt means taking the aircraft over Soviet controlled territory (or heavily patrolled waters, in the case of the Black Sea) and thus giving the Soviets a lot more warning then ~250 km worth.
 
I don't know. Those bases were built to take B-17s and B-24s, not B-29s and didn't they fall out of use once bases in Italy were up and running?
Possibly, but concrete doesn't decay quickly, and the Egyptian ports are, thanks to much pre-war investment, probably the best in North Africa, so I can't imagine it taking too long.

In any case, most of the direct to Soviet air space from Egypt means taking the aircraft over Soviet controlled territory (or heavily patrolled waters, in the case of the Black Sea) and thus giving the Soviets a lot more warning then ~250 km worth.
Taking the direct route from Cairo to Stavropol, you pass east of Cyprus, hit Turkey (an allied state, but probably neutral in this discussion) just west of Karataş, leave turkey just east of Giresun, pass over the eastern end of the Black Sea (the only major ports to the east being Poti and Batumi), make landfall in the USSR between Gagra and Gudauta (slightly closer to the former), follow that up with a nice flight over the Caucasian Mountains and then a short sprint to Stavropol.

Also, it's unlikely to matter much if the Soviets spot the bombers, since they probably have very few fighters in the area, that, and there's also the issue of processing time. For example, if they are reported the moment they make landfall, but the information takes half-an-hour to reach the necessary authorities, then those bombers are only 75km (less than a quarter of an hour) from their destination before anything actually gets done.
 
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If you want a planned Soviet attack, the best time is probably 1946 when Allied demobilization was at its peak (complete with Wanna Go Home riots) and only skeleton forces were left in western Europe. Expect an attempted decapitation strike at the Manhattan Project at about the same time (George Koval, codename Delmar would probably be most suited for such a project, both psychologically and in terms of access.) Realistically, though the Manhattan Project scientists are vulnerable, the bomb infrastructure is well established by this point, so the best the Soviet agents could manage is probably a delay in production (and stopping further research/improvement cold.)

My expectation for such a scenario is a quick Soviet overrun of western Europe, nuking of Moscow and Leningrad, wearing down of Soviet forces through air power, and eventual costly Allied victory at the cost of tens of millions of lives.
 
Maybe I´m losing the original thread here but ... the Berlin blockade of june 1948 WAS a close call. There was a lot of brinkmanship going on that could have easily escalated into a conflict like in 1914.
After all a war made sense for both sides. The Soviets had a huge superiority in ground forces but was seeing western europe stabilize under US rule. The US on the other hand was losing China but still enjoyed nuclear superiority.
A war as early as 1945 though makes less sense for reasons already mentioned above. 1946 to 1949 seems most likely.
Btw imagine McCarthyism if the cold war had turned hot.
 
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