WW2 With Axis UK?

Okay, I'm not going to try to explain HOW that would come about, just that it happens by 1936, and that when WW2 starts... the US doesn't have the UK to enter.

Now, if the US still enters, how will things change? I'm guessing the war gets dragged out longer because there's no where to put troops in Europe, hence the need to invade. In addition, the Soviets will need a lot more aid to combat the Nazis, if they can't improve their OTL performance(to be fair, unlikely to be surprised, because they know where the Nazis will invade without the UK Axis oriented.)

Again, how the UK goes Fascist I'll leave up to you.
 
A fascist UK might still be anti-German due to the whole Channel Ports/no European hegemon thing. The Russians and Chinese were both communists and they fought border wars.

I did come up with an AH scenario a long time ago where Britain joins the Axis after the Communists take over France pre-1939, but that needed more work, to say the least.
 
As Merry says, ideology come second to power-politics as soon as you take over a country. Spain, after all, was neutral and Portugal, IIRC, British-inclined; whereas the whole period when Moscow-line communism was aiding and abetting fascists in Europe puts paid to the idea that the struggle was purely ideological.

If Britain were to be allied with Germany it would require different regimes, different circumstances, and a different balance of power.

1) If we suppose some sort of non-Hitlerite military-authoritarian-nationalist regime in Germany - call it fascist if you like, I think it would be more of a Poland than an Italy - then perhaps we get what we wanted under the appeasing governments: a broad revision of Versailles creating a strong Germany in the middle of Europe with land armed forces proportionate to its size and a normal economy, with some sort of stake in Africa to keep it aligned with the conservative Entente against the 'outside powers' (tut-tutting America, erratic Japan, Cossack Mongol Commie Horde USSR).

(I must stress, however, that the friendship of Germany would never be bought at the expense of France, as a certain sort of person is so keen on doing. Many in Britain regarded France an annoyingly belligerent, but we were annoyed at their belligerence precisely because there was no question that if it came to it we would back them.)

Under what circumstances a war would be fought is the question: Stalin took a few big risks in his time, but with his nightmare alliance materialised he will be on his tippy-toes. Of course, as Faeelin often points out, one can never discount the possibility of aggression from The Good Guys.

2) Let's go further back and have Germany win WW1 at some time in the middle of the war by handwave. Defeated France is neutered and with Italy becomes a medium-sized power in Germany's grossraum, its conservative and authoritarian government troubled by constant civil disturbance and political agitation.

Britain, having had to make some sort of compromise peace, slides into a clumsy half-hearted reactionism, keeping the lid on Ireland, India, and the Unwashed Masses by increasingly heavy-handed measures and floating unwillingly into the German orbit.

America affirms its commitment to China and the Russian Socialist Federation...
 
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A fascist Britain won't be any more welcoming to a German dominated Europe, by the nature of fascist regimes it will probably be more hostile.

However, if Britain was German aligned, how exactly would war break out? There will be no Molotov-Ribbentrop as Stalin knows there is no gain in it. France will likely keep very quiet, knowing it is surrounded and vulnerable. Poland may still fight, but Case White won't last much longer than OTL even in the best case scenario. Germany will have ditched Japan for the UK, and America and the Soviets won't be very friendly towards them either.

Where is the conflict going to come from here?
 
Case white wont take place, and neither does case yellow, there is simply no need for it in this scenario. russia was always the main target, and i guess that wont be different here. The us commiting itself to socialist russia sounds implausible, unless the us is socialist too. with a right wing uk, the germans might get their big anti-comintern alliance.

edit: but a more victorious germany might have annexed more from poland, and there would be no danzig corridor. add to that that poland might be a german puppet.
 
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Case white wont take place, and neither does case yellow, there is simply no need for it in this scenario. the east was always the main target, and i guess that wont be different here.

However, to get to the Soviets Poland still needs to be invaded, or at least brought on side.

Also, the US sided with the Soviet Union historically against fascism.
 
i think it would be more likely that they (the US) fall back into isolationism.
 
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i think it would be more likely that they fall back into isolationism.

We were never isolationist. Nobody was ever as isolationist as the lies-to-children version would have it, from interbellum America to late Tokugawa Japan, but when you're the world's financial centre and rule a quarter of it you can't be isolationist. You can be leery of binding alliances because generally you don't need them: that comes with being an island with overwhelming naval power, and lets you drive harder bargains just as a nation of shopkeepers should. But the very phrase 'splendid isolation' was invented by Salisbury as a name for a hypothetical that could never actually exist, IIRC. We took a keen interest in various issues throughout the 19th C.
 
If the British were parof thd axis then I doubt the Americans would fight them, they were simply too close. Churchills own mother was American. Also this might discourage the Japnese from attacking pearl harbor,and even if they do the other AXIS powers probally wont declard war on the USA.

Also this senario isnt so far fetched, the UK already didnt really like the USSR very much before the war, and Hitler might have been able to use this hatred of communism to win the western allies support in a war against the USSR, however if Hitler invades France Britain it would be very unlikely that the Brits would join the Axis.
 
For Germany to conquer the Soviet Union it needed to carve out as big a slice of middle-Europe as it could, destroying several of the cordon countries in the process, and build up an autarchic war-economy and a massive army. As we saw, Britain and France were willing to go to war against such a reckless policy even under the appeaser leaders.

Wanting Germany in your corner to preserve the status-quo is another thing again from cheerily endorsing its march of genocidal conquest.
 
Wanting Germany in your corner to preserve the status-quo is another thing again from cheerily endorsing its march of genocidal conquest.


you are judging on otl germany during the nazi period, whatever the pod was, in this scenario it is very unlikely that you will have a otl like nazism. It would be more like italian fascism.
 
you are judging on otl germany during the nazi period, whatever the pod was, in this scenario it is very unlikely that you will have a otl like nazism. It would be more like italian fascism.

And what was one of the greatest distinguishing feature of Nazism? An obsession with Lebensraum and a willingness to enact the most extreme and reckless policies in order to create a machine with a chance in hell of conquering it.

If you look up you will find that the idea of a 'fascist' Germany (I have explained my reservations with the term) was the first thing I addressed. But anyone sufficiently different from the Nazis to matter would never have had either ability or reason to wage total war on the USSR for unlimited ends.

I know that some people like to nurse fantasies of the Wehrmacht transformed into an enlightened golden sword liberating the People from the grip of the Commie Cossack Mongol Horde (these are completely different entities, apparently) but that is blafflum in various ways, most practically that the massive mobilisation and cynical conquest of the Nazis were necessary to launch Barbarossa in any recognisable form. Judged as a machine for invading the USSR, which in many ways it was, Nazism worked about as well as anything could possibly have done.
 
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