WW2 with a Trotskyist USSR?

Wolfpaw

Banned
There would in all likelihood be no diplomacy or anything of the like between the Reich and a Trotskyite USSR. I mean think of the propaganda Hitler would suffer in Germany if he were to be making agreements with the epitome of "Jewish Bolshevism". I'd have a hard time believing even Goebbels could make that one fly.

At the same time, I think you could see more activity from Communist parties around the world as Trotsky never abandoned his ideas of world revolution. Nothing major, maybe, but definitely more agitation and calls for more militancy amongst other Communist parties. This could have huge ramifications elsewhere, make other countries far less willing to deal with the USSR.

You may also see a more successful Republican resistance during the Spanish Civil War. Probably not enough to ensure a Republican victory, but Trotsky probably would have poured a lot more into the effort. Stalin did little to help the Republicans, seeing the fight in Spain not so much as a new kind of war or struggle against fascism, but a minor and relatively unimportant replay of the Russian Civil War. Basically, Trotsky would care about the whole thing, whereas Stalin by and large did not.
 
There would in all likelihood be no diplomacy or anything of the like between the Reich and a Trotskyite USSR. I mean think of the propaganda Hitler would suffer in Germany if he were to be making agreements with the epitome of "Jewish Bolshevism". I'd have a hard time believing even Goebbels could make that one fly.

At the same time, I think you could see more activity from Communist parties around the world as Trotsky never abandoned his ideas of world revolution. Nothing major, maybe, but definitely more agitation and calls for more militancy amongst other Communist parties. This could have huge ramifications elsewhere, make other countries far less willing to deal with the USSR.

You may also see a more successful Republican resistance during the Spanish Civil War. Probably not enough to ensure a Republican victory, but Trotsky probably would have poured a lot more into the effort. Stalin did little to help the Republicans, seeing the fight in Spain not so much as a new kind of war or struggle against fascism, but a minor and relatively unimportant replay of the Russian Civil War. Basically, Trotsky would care about the whole thing, whereas Stalin by and large did not.

I agree, Hitler can't afford dealing with Trotsky at all and Trotsky was more militant than Stalin.
 
So, would the following chain of events fit for a WW2 scenario with Trotsky in charge?

Hitler does his thing, Trotsky comes out against him strong and early. The west hopes for a big confrontation between the USSR and the Nazis, but, much like OTL, they guarantee Poland in 1938. In 1939, Hitler invades Poland. Trotsky, unwilling to trust the West to have his back, does not immediately declare war/commit troops. When the French begin to collapse, however, he decides to commit to the war effort, and eventually the Red Army, being better lead and equipped ITTL, succeeds over the Wehrmacht.
 
With a better prepped USSR the red terror will more than likely push far further west... and I can possibly see with the right communications between france/uk and the USSR western europe going socialist by the mid 50's. I believe a politician said on some show that if stalin hadn't made communism look so evil most of western europe would of done so without having to of been conquered. Oh, and also with trotsky's army pushing further west denmark and norway would likely fall to him, with this we may have a communist greenland on canada and americas doorstep =D and even perhaps iceland ( became independant more or less in 1944 in OTL ) which would give the USSR the eastern atlantic.
 
If Tuchachevsky and the Red Army officer corps are not purged, the Soviets will be in far better shape in 1941.
May be yes, may be no. Some purged commanders were pretty capable (Uborevich), some were basically unreformed guerilla commanders. I am of "Red Army without purges would neither be as capable as 1945 Red Army IOTL, nor as bad as 1941 IOTL" opinion. Somewhere on 1942 level. Which would give Germans some more trouble, but doesn't necessarily impress Hitler too much.

The purges, of such severity as they were, were I think as mucha product of Stalin's paranoia as anything.
Yes, but would non-paranoidal leader survive in "dogs eat dogs" environment of post-revolutionary Soviet leadership? Beria wasn't paranoid. He lasted 6 months. Remember, Revolution feeds on it's children.

said some pretty dodgy things about the Nazis.
Being Jewish he couldn't be friendly with them. What did he say, anyway?

no Finnish humiliation
This is one point I'm very uncertain about. Initial Finnish disaster (remember, Red Army did knock at Helsinki's gate at the end, as there was nothing between it and the city) was IMHO a result of 2 factors: Stalin's belief that Finns are to scared to resist (Red Army started another Liberation March a-la Poland 1939, not a war) and general low qualification of Soviet commanders. Second cause is there to stay (statistically purge survivors were just as bad in initial stages of war as newly promoted officers), so Trotsky might very well have another military misadventure (most likely, first large-scale action of his Red Army would be as much a disaster) which would cause Hitler to consider Red Army clay-legged.

You sound as if you think Stalin made a perfectly reasonable choice in agreeing to establish a nice, long, unfortified border between himself and Hitler.
OK Bruce, imagine that some ASB ISOTed you into Stalin's body in Summer 1939. What would you prefer: nice, long, unfortified border between you and Hitler without any framework preventing war or nice, long, unfortified border between you and Hitler with said framework. I know that diplomacy wasn't a strong weapon against Hitler, but beggar can't be chooser. What (but your understandable dislike of Uncle Joe) make you believe he wasn't just buying the time and he didn't understood in 1939 just as well as we do in 2009 that the clash is inevitable? And then, to cap it all off, those were times when French General Staff spent more energy making plans to fight USSR than they did to prepare to fight Germany.
 
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