WW2 until 1948

Kongzilla

Banned
I'm thinking of doing a timeline that goes until 1948 and has a much more devastating affect on the world.

I was thinking:

A less damaged spain throughs it's chips in with germany

Germany convinces Japan and china to work together (china is better off now)

A nationalist china that has crushed the commies and the warlords, and has built up it's industry and army with german help enters the war with germany in 1942 and takes back land it had control over in the qing dynasty putting them in conflict with both the French and British.

A nationalist china takes back a piece of land disputed by the Russians and them and Stalin decided he can't have a possible chinese attack and attacks china drawing men away from fighting the germans.

Somehow the Soviet union splits from the Western allies leading to the world having a 3 way slogging match.

Is this at all possible.
 
I am almost sure that it is not at all possible to get the Japanese to work with the Chinese. Unless under their own terms, which the Chinese would never accept.

The most that can be reasonably expected is an uneasy peace as possible result of Japanese being soundly defeated or at least stopped cold in 1937. That would require Germany to make larger contribution to Chinese war effort. Or entire world staring Japan down after Nanking or something like that.

Japan would be much more likely to break it off with Germany in this scenario. Their relationship was very strained IOTL, anyway.

As for the Spanish option, depending on the exact circumstances of the end of Civil War, they might end up being a bit stronger. They were never much of a great power to begin with, but... IMHO, Germany (or Italy) might need to provide majority of weapons to Spain, as well as secure the food for them for the duration of the war. Those are pretty tall orders.
 
I'm thinking of doing a timeline that goes until 1948 and has a much more devastating affect on the world.

I was thinking:

A less damaged spain throughs it's chips in with germany

Germany convinces Japan and china to work together (china is better off now)

A nationalist china that has crushed the commies and the warlords, and has built up it's industry and army with german help enters the war with germany in 1942 and takes back land it had control over in the qing dynasty putting them in conflict with both the French and British.

A nationalist china takes back a piece of land disputed by the Russians and them and Stalin decided he can't have a possible chinese attack and attacks china drawing men away from fighting the germans.

Somehow the Soviet union splits from the Western allies leading to the world having a 3 way slogging match.

Is this at all possible.

Spain... Spain is a difficult one, I don't know if you can get them in on the fight unless they are 100% certain they are joining the winning side. Nationalist China and Japan aren't going to work together. It might be possible to get China in the Axis , but both them and Japan is really, REALLY hard, if not impossible. You are dealing with decades of bad blood, and expansionist Japan and military Junta that is determined to carve it's name on China's face. The Soviet Union wouldn't split from the W-Allies, especially since it is probably facing a two front war and is going to need all the help it can get, if anything, it is going to be asking for more help from the USA and Britain. Also, I don't know how many men the Chinese and the Japanese can pull away. Russia already had several divisions in that area ready to deal with incursions and I believe they were more than a match for Chinese. Although numbers might factor in.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
I was thinking the reasons for Japan and China working together would be a mutual destruction kind of thing. Both would be ambitious China now being powerful enough to mess up a lot of Japanese soldiers with Japan never being able to conquer them and China fearing Japan because of their superior navy and airforce that would be capable of blowing the main chinese trading cities to smithereens.

The point of getting China powerful enough to do this would cause a problem though. I was thinking under sun-yet-sen China is unified and maybe German-Sino co-operation starts earlier allowing the Germans to train and equip the Chinese army. I was thinking Sun dies and Chiang-Kai-Shek takes over. They may have the numbers to fight the Russians by using Goebbels propaganda and infuriating the chinese populace by using the fact that china has been invaded so many times and now that china is strong they will no longer stand for it kinda propaganda stuff.

It does kind of sound far fetched now that I think of it. How badly could the Germans/Axis stalled the allies if they had managed to get the Wasserfall and Taifun as well as the Me 262 used as an interceptor up and running by the height of the Allied bombing campaigns if not before.
 
It does kind of sound far fetched now that I think of it. How badly could the Germans/Axis stalled the allies if they had managed to get the Wasserfall and Taifun as well as the Me 262 used as an interceptor up and running by the height of the Allied bombing campaigns if not before.

Hmmm well all of those projects are extremely resource intensive.

IIRC the Germans had ME 262 in service during the war. Depends when they have them, if it's during the Battle of Britain, I'd daresay these would win the Luftwaffe the day. They had several dozen ME 262's in service and if their kill record was anything to go by, the were quite devastating. This might push the W-Allies into developing their own jet-fighter planes might sooner. It all depends on the number that the Germans are able to produce and resupply them too.

The Taifun and Wasserfall, if deployed en-masse and properly could potentially be very devastating to Allied Bombers, but I imagine such an expensive system would cost a lot of resources, like all of the Reich's wunderwaffen projects.

I was thinking the reasons for Japan and China working together would be a mutual destruction kind of thing. Both would be ambitious China now being powerful enough to mess up a lot of Japanese soldiers with Japan never being able to conquer them and China fearing Japan because of their superior navy and air-force that would be capable of blowing the main chinese trading cities to smithereens.

If you want plausible, I'd pick China or Japan. Both is really hard because by the mid 1930's, neither side is willing to work together. A ceasefire is probably the best you would get. Pushing China into the Axis camp would be interesting however and with the right maneuvers, you could potentially keep Japan neutral. The effectiveness of China in the Axis depends heavily on who is in charge. It might be possible to have Germany send advisors to the Chinese or even soldiers ala Spain during the revolution. People better versed in Blue Chinese politics would be able to better gauge how to get Hitler and Sun into the same bed.
 
IIRC the Germans had ME 262 in service during the war. Depends when they have them, if it's during the Battle of Britain, I'd daresay these would win the Luftwaffe the day. They had several dozen ME 262's in service and if their kill record was anything to go by, the were quite devastating. .

ASB.

1] Goering and the LW had NO interest in aircraft with exotic powerplants
the jet and rocket plane that flew in Aug 1939 were private ventures by Ernst Heinkel and could not be mass-produced

2]it was difficult enough for either sides to produce a jet engined combat aircraft by 1944

3] By 1948 the LW could have many, many unusual aircraft designs - but no fuel to put in any of them - it was a court-martial offence to taxi your aircraft on engine power after landing in the 1945 LW after landing - the plane would be pulled by oxen or horses to conserve fuel for combat

4] USAAF Mustangs would strafe the airfields and destroy anything left out in the open, USAAF/RAF Strategic/tactical bombers would wreck the runways & hangars with conventional bombs

Game Over - play again Y/N?
 
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Kongzilla

Banned
What if Italy was to hold off on the war. Can anyone tell me the specifics but weren't the Italians modernizing their forces and would not be ready until 1942. So if they hold off and modernized they will have a source of oil because of american surveyors looking for oil in Libya in 40/41
 
I'm thinking of doing a timeline that goes until 1948 and has a much more devastating affect on the world.

I was thinking:

A less damaged spain throughs it's chips in with germany

Germany convinces Japan and china to work together (china is better off now)

A nationalist china that has crushed the commies and the warlords, and has built up it's industry and army with german help enters the war with germany in 1942 and takes back land it had control over in the qing dynasty putting them in conflict with both the French and British.

A nationalist china takes back a piece of land disputed by the Russians and them and Stalin decided he can't have a possible chinese attack and attacks china drawing men away from fighting the germans.

Somehow the Soviet union splits from the Western allies leading to the world having a 3 way slogging match.

Is this at all possible.

For some reason, the title reminds of me 'For All Nails'........
 
ASB.

1] Goering and the LW had NO interest in aircraft with exotic powerplants
the jet and rocket plane that flew in Aug 1939 were private ventures by Ernst Heinkel and could not be mass-produced

2]it was difficult enough for either sides to produce a jet engined combat aircraft by 1944

3] By 1948 the LW could have many, many unusual aircraft designs - but no fuel to put in any of them - it was a court-martial offence to taxi your aircraft on engine power after landing in the 1945 LW after landing - the plane would be pulled by oxen or horses to conserve fuel for combat

4] USAAF Mustangs would strafe the airfields and destroy anything left out in the open, USAAF/RAF Strategic/tactical bombers would wreck the runways & hangars with conventional bombs

Game Over - play again Y/N?


Wasn't saying it was possible, just saying what they would represent being available earlier which was the question asked.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
What if Heydrich took over. I've always thought as Heydrich as a supervillain.
Hitler was insane but he was just kind of evil. If he took over I think Goering would be killed. Does that eliminate the problem of no exotic aircraft and an Insane guy as leader.
 
Does that eliminate the problem of no exotic aircraft and an Insane guy as leader.

no, by killing Hitler and replacing him with Heydrich - you are swapping one unpredictable psychopath for a different unpredictable psychopath

crushing defeat of the Nazis will happen in 1945-1946 whoever is in charge of the Reich

the Nazis were doomed to fail by the nature of the enemies they idiotically chose to attack/declare war on
 
You'll need to push back the race for the A-Bomb by three more years. If Germany is still up and fighting by August of 1945 the Nazis are going to be getting Fat Man and Little Boy right in the sweet spots with more on the way. Unless they have SAMs that can shoot down whole bomber formations several German cities are going to be sprouting mushroom clouds by the end of 1945 which will take the wind out of the sails of the Wehrmacht no matter what other factors exist on the ground.

Re splitting the Allies, that's unlikely by 1942. Hitler was not going to make any peace with the USSR short of the peace of the grave after Barbarossa started. Stalin and the Soviets were well aware of this fact as were the other Allies. Even if the WAllies somehow end up in a fight with the USSR there's no real practical way for anything to happen; Japan is in the way of any American or British offensives against Siberia and the Far East while getting to European Russia either means going after Murmansk (and around Nazi-controlled Norway) or slogging through the Third Reich to pick a fight with the Soviets. Churchill's claim he would support the Devil if Hitler invaded Hell was a pretty accurate summation of the situation the Western Allies were in.
 
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I'm thinking of doing a timeline that goes until 1948 and has a much more devastating affect on the world.

I was thinking:

A less damaged spain throughs it's chips in with germany

Germany convinces Japan and china to work together (china is better off now)

A nationalist china that has crushed the commies and the warlords, and has built up it's industry and army with german help enters the war with germany in 1942 and takes back land it had control over in the qing dynasty putting them in conflict with both the French and British.

A nationalist china takes back a piece of land disputed by the Russians and them and Stalin decided he can't have a possible chinese attack and attacks china drawing men away from fighting the germans.

Somehow the Soviet union splits from the Western allies leading to the world having a 3 way slogging match.

Is this at all possible.

I'd say no.
 
I have a random comment:

In LA Noire, during a flash back, one of the characters mentioned something like "They're saying 'The Golden Gate by '48'. That's four more years of war". I'm not sure if that's where the OPs inspiration came from, but I just thought I'd mention it.
 
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Kongzilla

Banned
I have a random comment:

In LA Noire, during a flash back, one of the characters mentioned something like "They're saying 'The Golden Gate by '48'. That's four more years of war". I'm not sure if that's where the OPs inspiration came from, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Never played LA noire.

I didn't want a drawn out war to have Heydrich sit in his office with a white cat on his lap.
 
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